Sterilization

[rivetc]

I have a very serious question, if it’s posted elsewhere I apologize. However, it concerns sterilization and how strict is the rule against it. It seems that sterilization is only allowed in two cases, by accident (ie result of another procedure) or when there are severe health risks to the mother getting pregnant. This seems very inflexible. In most the things the church preaches caring and individual circumstances, but here, this does not seem to apply. In my case, my wife and I are both at or near 38 have three children (six pregnancies) and feel it best to avoid more children, but without loss of maritel relations. Seems selfish, these things always are, but I what point is sterilization no longer grave? How many children is enough and at what age can you stop?

 

[Seatuck]

I have a very serious question, if it’s posted elsewhere I apologize. However, it concerns sterilization and how strict is the rule against it. It seems that sterilization is only allowed in two cases, by accident (ie result of another procedure) or when there are severe health risks to the mother getting pregnant. This seems very inflexible. In most the things the church preaches caring and individual circumstances, but here, this does not seem to apply. In my case, my wife and I are both at or near 38 have three children (six pregnancies) and feel it best to avoid more children, but without loss of maritel relations. Seems selfish, these things always are, but I what point is sterilization no longer grave? How many children is enough and at what age can you stop?

You are mistaken in the second case. Sterilization is never allowed in that circumstance. Sterilization is only allowed as an unintended effect of a medical treatment where there is no other option. In your situation you may consider using one of the NFP methods to postpone pregnancy until a time that you and your wife prayerfully consider it appropriate. It is possible that month after month that time might never come but it is the only moral way for you to postpone the possiblilty of conception.The church considers intentional sterilization to be morally wrong and sinful.

Search NFP in this site as well as on the internet and you will come up with several options. You can call your diocese to find out what classes they offer as well.

 

[BEattitude]

Sorry this is a bit off the subject. But having some serious health problems myself I have to give my two cents. Sterilization is a mortal sin, Lust is a mortal sin, Masturbation is a mortal sin. On this forum and I am sure more frequently esle where, married men admit to masturbating all the time, they recognize it’s evil, they recognize it is a mortal sin etc. I struggle with this sterilization concern myself, and no I am not equating sterilization to masturbation. It is very difficult however, to know your husband is masturbating while you are at your peak fertility as to avoid pregancy, especially when it is a time of high arrousal. I recognize that two wrongs do not make a right. A man very often has very little guilt after masturbating but yet if a woman has a tubal to prevent a potential death it is severly frowned upon. I am a bit confused on the whole matter myself. It almost seems to me, it would be better to have the one time mortal sin of a tubal, than multiple times a month mortal sin. Just an opinion with no facts to back it up. Sorry about the rant!

 

[setter]

…It is very difficult however, to know your husband is masturbating while you are at your peak fertility as to avoid pregancy, especially when it is a time of high arrousal. I recognize that two wrongs do not make a right. …I am a bit confused on the whole matter myself. It almost seems to me, it would be better to have the one time mortal sin of a tubal, than multiple times a month mortal sin. Just an opinion with no facts to back it up. Sorry about the rant!

You are correct that two wrongs do not make a right. I would add that moral law is never adjusted, amended, or exeption carved out for human weakness and selfishness. This is what grace and ongoing conversion and growth into holiness is all about.

1789 Some rules apply in every case:

• One may never do evil so that good may result from it; (Catechism of the Catholic Church)

1761 There are concrete acts that it is always wrong to choose, because their choice entails a disorder of the will, i.e., a moral evil. One may not do evil so that good may result from it. (CCC)

 

[apricot_yogurt]

To the OP. At 38, your wife is approaching menopause. Could you not prudently practice NFP until then?

 

[1ke]

I have a very serious question, if it’s posted elsewhere I apologize. However, it concerns sterilization and how strict is the rule against it. It seems that sterilization is only allowed in two cases, by accident (ie result of another procedure) or when there are severe health risks to the mother getting pregnant.

This is incorrect. One may never purposely have themselves sterilized for the prevention of pregnancy. That is contraception, and it is always gravely immoral.

Sterilization can only happen as a result of a diseased organ being removed-- such as a hysterectomy due to disease of the uterus, ovaries due to ovarian cancer/cysts, testes as a result of testicular cancer, etc.

Direct sterilization is always wrong.

This seems very inflexible. In most the things the church preaches caring and individual circumstances, but here, this does not seem to apply.

The Church does not preach “individual circumstances”. That is known as moral relativism and that is a heresy. What the Church does teach is how to apply God’s eternal law to your individual circumstances.

In my case, my wife and I are both at or near 38 have three children (six pregnancies) and feel it best to avoid more children, but without loss of maritel relations.

If you believe you have a just reason to avoid pregnancy, then use NFP and have relations during the infertile time.

Seems selfish, these things always are, but I what point is sterilization no longer grave?

It is always gravely sinful.

How many children is enough and at what age can you stop?

It is for each couple to determine the timing, spacing, and number of children.

However, a couple may NEVER use immoral means to space, time, or postpone pregnancy. NFP is available to you. I do not understand your focus on sterilization-- which is never an option.

 

[puzzleannie]

I have a very serious question, if it’s posted elsewhere I apologize. However, it concerns sterilization and how strict is the rule against it. It seems that sterilization is only allowed in two cases, by accident (ie result of another procedure) or when there are severe health risks to the mother getting pregnant. ?

Direct surgical or chemical sterilization is never ever permitted with the direct intent of preventing conception, not for the health of the mother, financial burden or any other reason. If it is an unintended result of another procedure or medication done to address another health issue (and increasingly in modern medicine there are other better alternatives) it is allowed and does not affect the couple’s right to their marital relations.

If you have a good and prudential reason in your own judgement to avoid pregnancy at this time your only alternative is abstinence, either permanent (until your wife reaches menopause) or periodic, guided by reliable NFP methods. Visit couple to couple league, plenty of links here search on NFP.

There is no objective right to enjoy marital relations unless you are open to the possibility of children. If it is necessary in your judgement to avoid pregnancy at this time then get guidance on how and when to abstain.

 

[gam197]

original posted by BEattitude
I struggle with this sterilization concern myself, and no I am not equating sterilization to masturbation. It is very difficult however, to know your husband is masturbating while you are at your peak fertility as to avoid pregancy, especially when it is a time of high arrousal.

If you are a woman I applaud your concern for your husband or others husbands. I have had to deal with the same issue. Many woman don’t care if their husbands masturbate.

The case presented in a woman who is almost into menopause. Child bearing years are the twenties and then thirties not forties.One has to ask would one more possible child make a difference? Is it a real health issue? I think they should continue with NFP and know that the chances of a pregnancy are going down not up. Yes it can happen and that will determine how they use NFP. The woman needs to eat well and exercise to keep her body strong,and take care of herself.

Hopefully other on this forum those who have had children later in life will testify. I myself had one healthy child in my early forties as did my sister. One of my sisters wanted a child in her early forties and could get pregnant but not carry. This has to do with how close you are to ovulation… Both my sister and I then used nothing after and guess what- no pregnancy. Yet my own mother had a healthy child at age 49 after a ten year space.Maybe that is why I didn’t have a fear of an unhealthy child.

If you are a man I have a different response.

 

[setter]

If you are a woman I applaud your concern for your husband or others husbands. I have had to deal with the same issue. Many woman don’t care if their husbands masturbate. …

If you are a man I have a different response.

My response is “Time to grow-up boys and become a man”.

 

[puppylove]

I am an older woman who had a healthy baby at the age of 38. I was elated to say the least when I became pregnant while my husband was not. This was our first child together. I was using NFP when getting pregnant, but NFP didn’t fail, I failed following the rules. My husband wanted me to have my tubes tied, but I refused and then he talked about getting a vasectomy. I convinced him that it was a mortal sin so he hasn’t gone through with it. Now I am 40 and DH is 48 and he is refusing to have relations with me out of fear of getting me pregnant again. He calls it “his luck”! When I ask what he does to “relieve” himself he says nothing. I’ve even asked if he has a girlfriend which he laughs at me for asking such a thing. He just says that I changed the rules on him…which means I used ABC’s for many years until I came into full communion with the church. I started using NFP and got pregnant on cycle 4, but like I said we took a chance and didn’t follow the NFP rules. Now my DH is scared to death I get pregnant again, but I know when I am fertile and act accordingly but “his luck”, I will get preggers. I do not want anymore children but if it is God’s will then so be it. Is it a sin for him to not have relations with me. I don’t know but it hurts me personally. I hope you and your spouse can follow NFP closely and fulfill God’s will as I have tried for the past few years. Good luck and may God bless you and your spouse.

 

[gam197]

Setter,

I understand that response. Yet,we live in a highly sexualized world pushed by media. It is very difficult for young men. The height of their drive comes at an early age. They get pulled in early.

Girls don’t help. They are trying to attract boys so they push it too. Yet they really don’t want to deal with it. I’ve heard people call it “lieing with your body”.

Add the girls and add their sexual drive which really is not equivilant to the males and it becomes crazy world. I’m getting into trouble here now, but I believe that is true.The height comes are at a later age and the girls haven’t had thousands of years of history.

Men are dealing with sexual addictions. We as females are not dealing with men’s sexuality and some women are dealing with their own addictions. I remember always hearing the word “submissive” when I attended the Charismatic renewal.

Men think if they can use birth control, she will become submissive and be available on demand and meet their needs but she won’t. She has many issues.One is that she will then have to deal with her conscience. I assume she has one. I was told as a girl that not to be submissive was a sin. I failed on that one.

An he will also have to deal with how much damage he has caused to the female body which again causes problems.

 

[setter]

Setter,

I understand that response. Yet,we live in a highly sexualized world pushed by media. It is very difficult for young men. The height of their drive comes at an early age. They get pulled in early.

Girls don’t help. They are trying to attract boys so they push it too. Yet they really don’t want to deal with it. I’ve heard people call it “lieing with your body”.

Add the girls and add their sexual drive which really is not equivilant to the males and it becomes crazy world. I’m getting into trouble here now, but I believe that is true.The height comes are at a later age and the girls haven’t had thousands of years of history.

Men are dealing with sexual addictions. We as females are not dealing with men’s sexuality and some women are dealing with their own addictions. I remember always hearing the word “submissive” when I attended the Charismatic renewal.

Men think if they can use birth control, she will become submissive and be available on demand and meet their needs but she won’t. She has many issues.One is that she will then have to deal with her conscience. I assume she has one. I was told as a girl that not to be submissive was a sin. I failed on that one.

An he will also have to deal with how much damage he has caused to the female body which again causes problems.

You bring up a number of reality issues confronting and challenging every man’s task to develop self-control over his passions, i.e., grow up in Christ. What I hear wholly lacking for the men in your above comments is the virtue of temperance.

**1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. The temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: “Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart.” Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: “Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites.” In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought “to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world.” ( Catechism of the Catholic Church)

Men are unfortunately lacking in healthy, relevant and accessible role models for manly Christian virtue. This becomes an issue of evangelization of these Church visible “men” membership by those who are striving to be faithful disciples of Jesus Christ. My original post was directed to married men in Catholic marriages, not necessarily single young adults. To these married men, it is unfortunately an unbecoming reality that they are behaving with the self-restraint of adolescents or the moral grounding of pagans. These Catholic married men should be modeling and training their own children in the virtues, yet they cannot give what they have not yet attained.

2223 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by *creating a home *where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues. This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the “material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones.” Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children. By knowing how to acknowledge their own failings to their children, parents will be better able to guide and correct them:

He who loves his son will not spare the rod. . . . He who disciplines his son will profit by him. (CCC)

 

[gam197]

Now my DH is scared to death I get pregnant again, but I know when I am fertile and act accordingly but “his luck”, I will get preggers. I do not want anymore children but if it is God’s will then so be it. Is it a sin for him to not have relations with me.

If he is touching himself, I would say yes.

These Catholic married men should be modeling and training their own children in the virtues, yet they cannot give what they have not yet attained.

The home is well suited for education in the virtues. This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the “material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones.” Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children.

Temperance is essential but most males and females are lacking. The home is well suited for education in the virtues but children spend a great deal of their time away from home in a school system that doesn’t produce virtues. Parents then try to compensate by keeping them busy so we have sports, dance classes etc. This lack of virtues produces alcoholics, drug addicts, shopaholics, gamblers and these things usually start at a very young age. Men are at greatest risk because of their high sexuality. Women are in denial that they play a part.

When the men can’t control their passions, women again turn it back to the men. You should have better control. They don’t so now what.

 

[1ke]

Is it a sin for him to not have relations with me. I don’t know but it hurts me personally.

Yes, it is. We are not to withhold the marital act from our spouse in the way he is doing.

Talk to a priest, together if possible.

 

[gam197]

Now my DH is scared to death I get pregnant again, but I know when I am fertile and act accordingly but “his luck”, I will get preggers. I do not want anymore children but if it is God’s will then so be it. Is it a sin for him to not have relations with me. I don’t know but it hurts me personally

There’s alot going on here…I am not sure that because he is holding back that it is a sin. (Couples can choose not to have sex if it is a mutual agreement).He may be angry that the rules have changed. It may be resentment. He may not trust you and NFP. He may have a fear of being an older parent. You need to ask him.Why do you not want any more children? Maybe he thinks you don’t want children and that you will be angry if you get pregnant. Maybe he feels overwhelmed by the responsibility. Talk, pray and talk to a priest.

 

[puppylove]

There’s alot going on here…I am not sure that because he is holding back that it is a sin. (Couples can choose not to have sex if it is a mutual agreement).He may be angry that the rules have changed. It may be resentment. He may not trust you and NFP. He may have a fear of being an older parent. You need to ask him.Why do you not want any more children? Maybe he thinks you don’t want children and that you will be angry if you get pregnant. Maybe he feels overwhelmed by the responsibility. Talk, pray and talk to a priest.

No he doesn’t want anymore children because of his age and I don’t want more because I have to work… Yes he does feel overwhelmed by the responsibility and to be honest, sometimes I do too with having a teen and toddler. I love my daughters unconditionally but life can be rough at times. I have been blessed thus far with a great teen, but she only 15 so we shall see. And my toddler can be very demanding on these old bones… and she is rotten in the purest form…LOL We had talked about having children before we were married and he didn’t want anymore back then and we have been married almost 7 years this May. Thanks for all your help!

 

[gam197]

I am glad your marriage is going good. If he chooses not have any more children and refrains from sex, I am not sure there is much you can do about that. He had made a personal decision not to have more children.You seem to feel that is fine too. So even though you can’t agree on the method, there is an agreement that no children be born. If you would like more children, then I’d have a problem with this.

The next issue is whether he is touching himself because this is not OK. Maybe he isn’t. When my husband did this, I sensed it.

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Sounds like a lack of trust…trust in God. Why do you conclude that 38 is too old to become parents again? God’s will is not your will. We are called to be open to God’s will…at any age. Unless you have serious reasons for avoiding another pregnancy your marital relations should remain open to life.

If you’re not sure what constitues a “serious reason”, go talk to a priest and ask for help trying to figure it out. Life is the greatest gift God can give us. We should not dismiss our roles in cooperating with God’s will to bring souls into the world lightly.

Sterilization is not an option as other posters have said. You will be committing a serious sin if you sterilize your marriage. Again, go speak with a priest for guidance if you need it.

At the age of 40, I find myself pregnant with baby #4. Society tells me I’m too old and should be “done” with this stage of my life. God obviously has a different opinion!

 

[Joan_M]

To the OP. At 38, your wife is approaching menopause. Could you not prudently practice NFP until then?

Where on earth did you get that idea?! At 38? I suppose it depends on what you mean by “approaching”. First of all, going through menopause takes at least two or more years. However, I do not see 40 as the age for menopause.

I was 50 when I had a hysterectomy, and had no symptoms of approaching menopause! My mother was 48 when I was born. Most of my friends who are menopausal were between 45 and 52 when they experienced this.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by Joan M
I was 50 when I had a hysterectomy, and had no symptoms of approaching menopause! My mother was 48 when I was born. Most of my friends who are menopausal were between 45 and 52 when they experienced this.

Menopause depends on the person. I’ve heard of woman who have gone through menopause in their thirties. How many children did your mother have during her forties? I just don’t see these years as child bearing years. I had one and used nothing.I still had a cycle very month until age 50. Maybe I am wrong on this.