Sticky situation after hiring family member

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kittery said:
I think we have been TOO generous and are looking to reign this situation back into reality for him without causing a family feud. He is not a good fit for us, since he thinks that the odd jobs are beneath him and he can only set his sights on the roof because frankly, he sees $$$$$.
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Honestly there is no way to not have a “family feud” or at least some resentment and hurt feelings. And if you try to make your business decisions based on that it will only make things worse. Fire him. Pay him for what was agreed. Don’t pay the girlfriend. Speak to his parents as well. I know he is in his 20s but sometimes mom and dad can still help out with how this might go.
 
I have a hard time hiring family members because you don’t have the same leverage as you do with outsiders. Generally, I think it is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

I have occasionally seen it work - where a husband/wife buy a restaurant or something together - and divide up responsibilities. Generally, though, you are either way too easy on someone - or way too hard - and often the worker doesn’t treat the job the same way they would if it were an outsider.

But, you are already here - and he’s already worked for you. I realize that you don’t want to damage family ties - but you aren’t helping him by enabling this behavior.

I would pay him what you originally agreed for the hours worked. I would pay his girlfriend for the hour she cleaned your van. And I would tell him that his services are no longer needed - thank you. If he asks about the roof, tell him that you have contracted with another firm. If he asks why, then you can tell him that you were honestly disappointed with how everything has worked out. Tell him that you should have said something right away - but that it is not appropriate that he brings his girl friend - or any friend to a job without that being part of the arrangement. Tell him that you are uncomfortable that he is purchasing items that you didn’t ask for - and that doesn’t make his case stronger - in fact, it weakens it. And tell him that you love him and do not want to jeopardize that relationship with this business relationship. But if any other person had come to you with this behavior, you wouldn’t have allowed it.
 
shainski said:
I have a hard time hiring family members because you don’t have the same leverage as you do with outsiders. Generally, I think it is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

I have occasionally seen it work - where a husband/wife buy a restaurant or something together - and divide up responsibilities. Generally, though, you are either way too easy on someone - or way too hard - and often the worker doesn’t treat the job the same way they would if it were an outsider.

But, you are already here - and he’s already worked for you. I realize that you don’t want to damage family ties - but you aren’t helping him by enabling this behavior.

I would pay him what you originally agreed for the hours worked. I would pay his girlfriend for the hour she cleaned your van. And I would tell him that his services are no longer needed - thank you. If he asks about the roof, tell him that you have contracted with another firm. If he asks why, then you can tell him that you were honestly disappointed with how everything has worked out. Tell him that you should have said something right away - but that it is not appropriate that he brings his girl friend - or any friend to a job without that being part of the arrangement. Tell him that you are uncomfortable that he is purchasing items that you didn’t ask for - and that doesn’t make his case stronger - in fact, it weakens it. And tell him that you love him and do not want to jeopardize that relationship with this business relationship. But if any other person had come to you with this behavior, you wouldn’t have allowed it.
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Excellent advise!👍
 
shainski said:
I have a hard time hiring family members because you don’t have the same leverage as you do with outsiders. Generally, I think it is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

I have occasionally seen it work - where a husband/wife buy a restaurant or something together - and divide up responsibilities. Generally, though, you are either way too easy on someone - or way too hard - and often the worker doesn’t treat the job the same way they would if it were an outsider.

But, you are already here - and he’s already worked for you. I realize that you don’t want to damage family ties - but you aren’t helping him by enabling this behavior.

I would pay him what you originally agreed for the hours worked. I would pay his girlfriend for the hour she cleaned your van. And I would tell him that his services are no longer needed - thank you. If he asks about the roof, tell him that you have contracted with another firm. If he asks why, then you can tell him that you were honestly disappointed with how everything has worked out. Tell him that you should have said something right away - but that it is not appropriate that he brings his girl friend - or any friend to a job without that being part of the arrangement. Tell him that you are uncomfortable that he is purchasing items that you didn’t ask for - and that doesn’t make his case stronger - in fact, it weakens it. And tell him that you love him and do not want to jeopardize that relationship with this business relationship. But if any other person had come to you with this behavior, you wouldn’t have allowed it.
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Excellent post. I’m in agreement on paying him for hours worked (as supervisor you should have set limits on time for trips/breaks etc), you pay for GF ‘cleaning of van’, any other money to her comes out of his wages. You did not hire her, they never indicated she expected pay to assist him, you were never approached about pay for her. If she had any expectations of payment, they came from him- ergo he should be on the hook for it, not you.

If your nephew asks about the roof- ask him if he has liability insurance, if he’s licensed, if he’s capable of providing a warranty on the work, etc. Tell him that’s why you will go with a professional.

As an aside, one of the best employers I ever had wouldn’t pay hourly wages. He paid by the job. I put up commercial grade shelves in grocery stores for him. He paid by the job- install X number of shelves to the store managers satisfaction and I will pay you XX dollars. Just like a sub-contractor. The harder and faster I worked, the more dollars/hr I was earning. The slower I worked, the less I was making on a per hour basis. I did 5 stores in three days where my employer had figured on 6 days and booked a hotel for us to stay in. His comment- finish early, you can either cash in the non-used hotel money, or stay and be a tourist for a couple of days.

I think that would be a better approach for your husband to take if he’s a softie with relatives. Not commit to giving them money for ‘being there’, but having a mutual agreement based on the result of effort for a completed job.
 
Just emphasizing on the roof-
  • IF the roof leaks and damages tenants belongings ( big screen TV/Computer with loss of data etc.) I sure wouldn’t want to be counting on the nephew to make good on it. That is a huge risk you just can’t afford to take.
 
I agree with the suggestion to in future pay for results, rather than per hour (and then inspect the work like crazy before paying), but I would certainly think twice before hiring this individual. I would also pay the girlfriend directly for her work, rather than giving him money for her.

If you care about the nephew and think that he’s capable of turning over a new leaf, I would suggest telling him that if he ever wants to work for you again, you’re going to give him a feedback session (perhaps at a nice restaurant to take some of the sting out of it), you’d like him to take notes, and you’d like him to explain to you after the feedback session what he’s learned from the experience. Here’s a possible list of items (and don’t write it down for him–you don’t want something in your own handwriting or from your email account to circulate on that side of the family). Here’s an incomplete list of his infractions:
  1. Bringing along an extra person without having gotten permission (what if she’d been hurt on the work site?).
  2. Expecting the extra person to be paid, without having gotten an agreement.
  3. Not staying on task.
  4. Trying to get a big job without first demonstrating his competence and work ethic at the little job at hand.
Explain that if he can’t mend his ways, you don’t think he will be working for you again and you will be unable to recommend him to others. You might want to mention that conversely, if he does turn over a new leaf, you would be more than happy to hire him again and recommend him. Also explain that if he badmouths you to the rest of the family, you will not hire him again, and you will give him a bad reference if anybody asks. Tell him that he’s young, he’s just starting out, and it’s not a bad time to be making mistakes, but never make the same mistake twice.

Whoever’s blood relative he is should be the one doing this, as blood relatives are more easily forgiven. I understand fully if you decide to skip that conversation, but it could be very helpful to him.
 
“He is not a good fit for us, since he thinks that the odd jobs are beneath him and he can only set his sights on the roof because frankly, he sees $$$$$.”

Actually, as you describe his work ethic, it sounds like odd jobs are above him.

Good luck with the family diplomacy!
 
shainski said:
I have a hard time hiring family members because you don’t have the same leverage as you do with outsiders. Generally, I think it is a bad idea for a lot of reasons.

I have occasionally seen it work - where a husband/wife buy a restaurant or something together - and divide up responsibilities. Generally, though, you are either way too easy on someone - or way too hard - and often the worker doesn’t treat the job the same way they would if it were an outsider.

But, you are already here - and he’s already worked for you. I realize that you don’t want to damage family ties - but you aren’t helping him by enabling this behavior.

I would pay him what you originally agreed for the hours worked. I would pay his girlfriend for the hour she cleaned your van. And I would tell him that his services are no longer needed - thank you. If he asks about the roof, tell him that you have contracted with another firm. If he asks why, then you can tell him that you were honestly disappointed with how everything has worked out. Tell him that you should have said something right away - but that it is not appropriate that he brings his girl friend - or any friend to a job without that being part of the arrangement. Tell him that you are uncomfortable that he is purchasing items that you didn’t ask for - and that doesn’t make his case stronger - in fact, it weakens it. And tell him that you love him and do not want to jeopardize that relationship with this business relationship. But if any other person had come to you with this behavior, you wouldn’t have allowed it.
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EXCELLENT ADVICE, THANK YOU! I’m so glad I came here for help with this. Lots of sound, wise advice.
 
-]/-]
Country_Gal said:
Precisely. Your hubby is a softy, I’m sure he’s very lovable, but those lovable traits are a two-edged sword.

Nephew needs a big reality check. He should have been sent packing, day one, when he showed up with his girlfriend.
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He truly is a softy- in hindsight he knows now he should have shut it down right away.
 
Xantippe said:
I agree with the suggestion to in future pay for results, rather than per hour (and then inspect the work like crazy before paying), but I would certainly think twice before hiring this individual. I would also pay the girlfriend directly for her work, rather than giving him money for her.

If you care about the nephew and think that he’s capable of turning over a new leaf, I would suggest telling him that if he ever wants to work for you again, you’re going to give him a feedback session (perhaps at a nice restaurant to take some of the sting out of it), you’d like him to take notes, and you’d like him to explain to you after the feedback session what he’s learned from the experience. Here’s a possible list of items (and don’t write it down for him–you don’t want something in your own handwriting or from your email account to circulate on that side of the family). Here’s an incomplete list of his infractions:
  1. Bringing along an extra person without having gotten permission (what if she’d been hurt on the work site?).
  2. Expecting the extra person to be paid, without having gotten an agreement.
  3. Not staying on task.
  4. Trying to get a big job without first demonstrating his competence and work ethic at the little job at hand.
Explain that if he can’t mend his ways, you don’t think he will be working for you again and you will be unable to recommend him to others. You might want to mention that conversely, if he does turn over a new leaf, you would be more than happy to hire him again and recommend him. Also explain that if he badmouths you to the rest of the family, you will not hire him again, and you will give him a bad reference if anybody asks. Tell him that he’s young, he’s just starting out, and it’s not a bad time to be making mistakes, but never make the same mistake twice.

Whoever’s blood relative he is should be the one doing this, as blood relatives are more easily forgiven. I understand fully if you decide to skip that conversation, but it could be very helpful to him.
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Thank you for your thorough perspective- also very helpful advice. I’m jotting down notes from many of these eplies to help us through tonight. 👍
 
kittery said:
Today, hubby stopped by Nephew’s place after work to go over his time sheet and settle up with him. Nephew informs hubby that they are expecting his girlfriend to get paid the same number of hours as him!

Can anyone help with how to best handle this? Do we pay the girlfriend a token amount? What do we say to Nephew?
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Wow. That’s awful. I hope that you get the problem resolved.

I wouldn’t pay the girlfriend anything because she wasn’t specifically hired by you to do anything.

I simply can’t imagine doing anything like that to someone else - even it if was family.

Good luck to you.
 
Are you issuing him a 1099 so he can pay taxes on what you pay him? This could be a good way to also approach the matter.
 
Also, does he have workman’s comp insurance in case he gets hurt on your property?
 
If you’re having any trouble communicating with the lad, show him this thread.

Good luck!

👍
 
You don’t need to do paperwork for casual labor like this. Any accident would be covered under regular insurance, I’m sure.
 
You really want a professional to do that roof. Roofing is a trade and it takes several years to become competent to a level where you expect. Being 1 to 3 stories off the ground, handling 50 lbs. bundles of shingles, while walking on new shingles with loose pebbles is not the place for an amateur.

If the roof is not installed properly, not only could it leak, the life of the shingles is shortened. If this is a long term rental property, not something you intend to turn over in a few years, you don’t want to be reroofing the house for 20+ years.

The roof shingles should be torn off otherwise this voids the warranty on many shingles. Any bad decking should be replaced, new drip edge and tar paper need to be installed. Chimneys, dormers, valleys, vent pipes, attic vents, and skylights have to be flashed properly. Depending on the local code, flashing may be required on the lower 3 feet of roof decking. The new shingles should be 25 year rated and installed with roofing nails not a pneumatic staple gun. If the roof is visible from the street, all the shingles must be parallel otherwise the house looks “Harry Home Ownered”. If have any doubts about his abilities to do this, get a professional. What happens if half way through tearing off the roof, he stops showing up?

Many states pass workers comp over to homeowners in the case of a contractor that has none. Falling 10 to 30 feet is usually crippling and sometimes fatal. Some hurt feelings are much cheaper than the potential medical bills, lost income or going to a funeral.

As for the girlfriend, pay her what you feel is just. Getting my van washed and vacuumed costs $15 with tip where I live, but I wouldn’t pay for work I didn’t request. Tell the nephew that this is a business arrangement, not charity or a gift, that you expected a level of work from him and he did not perform. I would take the cost of the roofing tools out of his pay and give them to him or ask for the receipt and return them. Just be matter of fact about it. It sounds like the nephew needs some lessons on good business ethics.
 
Just use the line from The Godfather movie. Tell the nephew he is fired and that “It’s just business, it’s not personal.” :rolleyes:
 
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