Sticky wedding situation

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PaulinVA said:
I agree. I don’t think that talking about the sacramental nature of marriage is as overtly insulting as explicitly mentioning it’s *not *a sacrament. Why would you do that?
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And why would you take the opportunity of a wedding to pass a few anti-catholic thoughts? Perhaps the OP could explain to us why those arranging the wedding appear prepared to allow their Minister to express irrelevant and offensive beliefs at a wedding?
 
Thank you all for the words of wisdom. To clarify some things:

My daughter is 9 and so is in the tween years. She would be disappointed but not crushed if she didn’t go. My husband and I sat down and talked to both the kids today (girl 9 and son 12). They are both really remarkable kids in pretty strong in their own belief. I credit or parish catechism they are in and they are both pretty involved in the church activities so pretty well grounded.

I don’t feel like I am jumping to conclusions but that is always a possibility I suppose. I am not going to go and start a scene or create scandal and bring embarassment to the service…not my style.

My friend’s exact words when she relayed the details to me were “Wylie (groom) called me and asked if I knew that the minister was Nazarene and if I knew what the Nazarenes were all about? She replied she assumed they were Christian and he replied yes and no, that this minister was anti-Catholic and he was using a talk he used at another recent wedding where he (pastor) spoke about marriage not being a sacrament.” Wylie (groom) told her he has heard the talk at the other wedding and it had some anti- Catholic items in it and he was giving her a heads up." So, I paraphrased for breviety and was actually giving this guy the benefit of the doubt as I can hardly believe anyone would do this at a wedding. So not the time and place.

My husband is going to call the groom. If we had known this before my daughter would not be involved. I would be uncomfortable with whisking her away during a ceremony but my husband is going to tell the groom he does not want my daughter subject to abuse about her faith. If he an’t gie us a measure of assurance then she will not attend. It may not happen and he may just talk about the symbol of marriage which is fine as we talked to the kids about differences in people’s beliefs. Not believing the same thing is not a problem and is not abuse. But Catholic bashing or bashing of anyone’s faith is not ok especially in a wedding context.

I am not sure why the bride/groom would be ok with this. The groom has no religion calling himself an athiest. His father was a protestant minister and was quite abusive and so he has no need for religion. The groom set up the minister and so he may be appealing to his side of the family. 🤷 The bride is just overwhelmed with all the preparations and I doubt the groom has mentioned it to her. Although, I am sure she knows now through her mother.

Thank you Non Serviam for your thoughtful post. 🙂
 
China, perhaps then, you and you family could make a special occasion of the day you were meant to be at the wedding…create a pleasant memorable event?
God bless your family.
Kind wishes,
Trishie
 
China123 said:

“The groom has no religion calling himself an athiest. His father was a protestant minister and was quite abusive and so he has no need for religion. The groom set up the minister and so he may be appealing to his side of the family. The bride is just overwhelmed with all the preparations and I doubt the groom has mentioned it to her. Although, I am sure she knows now through her mother.”

Weird.

Perhaps the groom expects ministers to be abusive nutjobs, so he doesn’t realize that that isn’t the norm.
 
Xantippe said:
China123 said:

“The groom has no religion calling himself an athiest. His father was a protestant minister and was quite abusive and so he has no need for religion. The groom set up the minister and so he may be appealing to his side of the family. The bride is just overwhelmed with all the preparations and I doubt the groom has mentioned it to her. Although, I am sure she knows now through her mother.”

Weird.

Perhaps the groom expects ministers to be abusive nutjobs, so he doesn’t realize that that isn’t the norm.
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I’m always amazed at people who seem to have no faith affiliation, but feel the need for a minister and a church wedding.
And then there’s the Catholic girls that want to get married on the beach.
Go figure. :coffeeread:
 
Another option is to speak to the pastor directly. Tell him/her that their will be Catholics at the wedding and it would be inappropriate to discuss matters pertaining to other religions at the wedding.
 
This is a wedding in a hotel between non-Catholics; no one ever expected that it would comply in ever respect with the Catholic understanding of marriage. The bridal couple called you because they were anxious that you would take offense. Assure them that while you do not enjoy listening to people attack the faith and would hope that no one would do that at a wedding where the parents of the bridal couple are Catholic, you certainly will not miss the wedding because someone with an ax to grind will be there.

Even if it were a Catholic wedding, when we go to an event as solemn and joyful as a wedding, we go with the understanding that it will be our work, more so even than in daily life, to keep the event as unsullied as possible from unwarranted strife. It is too bad if the minister does not get that, but certainly a nine-year-old can. If we are provoked, we either ignore the provocation or admonish the ones trying to provoke us that “this is neither the time nor the place,” and let the matter go. “Above all, let your love for one another be intense, because love covers a multitude of sins. Be hospitable to one another without complaining.” 1 Pet. 4:8-9

Additionally, I’d give my children these two passages to work from on that day:
“Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” 1 Cor. 13:4-7
and with regards to rejoicing in the truth
“Now who is going to harm you if you are enthusiastic for what is good? But even if you should suffer because of righteousness, blessed are you. Do not be afraid or terrified with fear of them, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that be the will of God, than for doing evil.” 1 Pet. 3:13-17

There are two truths in operation here. 1) A valid matrimonial contract cannot exist between two of the baptized without it by that fact being a sacrament and 2) many non-Catholics do not appreciate that, but it is our duty to assume they are doing the best they can with the light they have, and perhaps are even doing better than we are with the truth they have been given to accept. Since we Catholics tell them we have the fullness of faith, it is all the more important that we live in the fullness of virtue, especially faith, hope, and love.

I would go, to be a support for the parents (the primary ones in the line of any such attack, after all), and prepare my children to defend the faith with the gentleness and reverence required, should they be called upon to do so. With the help of heaven, the minister will not really go through with something so rude, but if so, his ill-conceived faux pas can be weathered with a grace that will speak well for the Catholic faith. That is the best witness, I think, especially for the bride and groom.
 
Dacinom said:
Thank you for clarifying.

Perhaps a direct call to the minister would solve many problems here? I see nothing wrong with politely calling the minister and telling them your child is in the wedding and telling him you want to prepare your daughter for what the ceremony is going to be like and ask his advice etc.

Read what you can about the Nazareane faith so you can be polite and kind. You don’t have to say “I heard you were anti-Catholic so I was checking up.” simply tell him that your daughter is Catholic but you want to prepare your child to respect people of other denominations and any guidance he can give you would be very helpful!

First, most people like to be asked for advice and guidance so he should be pretty open minded about this. Second, you will get a first-hand impression of the man and what he is like. You may not get a word-for-word script of what his sermon is going to be, but you will have a much better idea (I think) then by guessing with all of this second-hand information. There is the chance he will not be honest with you I suppose, but I believe you will be better equipped to decide after going straight to him.

God bless.
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The problem with calling the minister is that the matter is known by hearsay only. It would be fine to note to the bride and groom that they have the standing to tell the minister that he may not sully their day and indulge himself by issuing insults directed at their Catholic family members and guests. There is plenty of common ground on our Christian understanding of marriage, and he will be thanked to confine his remarks to those thoughts. Having said that, I would reassure the bride and groom that I would pass over far greater rudeness than that for the sake of keeping their day free of unpleasantness, as it ought to be a happy day when we put aside our differences in order to share the joy of their union.

I think that is why they called–that is, because they are anxious that the day will be marred if this minister doesn’t control himself. The best thing to do is to reassure them that the other guests will make up in their love and self-control what he lacks in his own, and a good day will be had by all.
 
I would be prepared to talk to your children after the wedding if the pastor actually says something anti-Catholic. Use it as a teaching tool as they will eventually hear it at some point in their lives.I certainly wouldn’t disrupt the wedding.

When I first meet my husbands mother, who was a strict Southern Baptist, I did my very best to charm her before I told her I was Catholic. She found it very hard to think negatively of me after that.Go, be the kind, loving, friendly Catholic that I am sure you are and put the pastor to shame. Many of the non-Catholics there may have never meet a Catholic in person. When my husband and I got married, in a Catholic Church, all of his non-Catholic friends learn a lot of good things about Catholics.
 
shelby_sun said:
I would be prepared to talk to your children after the wedding if the pastor actually says something anti-Catholic. Use it as a teaching tool as they will eventually hear it at some point in their lives.I certainly wouldn’t disrupt the wedding.

When I first meet my husbands mother, who was a strict Southern Baptist, I did my very best to charm her before I told her I was Catholic. She found it very hard to think negatively of me after that.Go, be the kind, loving, friendly Catholic that I am sure you are and put the pastor to shame. Many of the non-Catholics there may have never meet a Catholic in person. When my husband and I got married, in a Catholic Church, all of his non-Catholic friends learn a lot of good things about Catholics.
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This is good advice! It was acceptable to go to the wedding before, as there is no reason to believe it was invalid. It is still acceptable to go. We might run into people who judge the Catholic faith rashly anywhere we go. Some have a change of heart when they encounter a Catholic of gentle graciousness. “Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope,” but otherwise concentrate that you do nothing to sully the reputation of the faith by failing to esteem the needs of others first. In this case, put the joy of the bride and groom first, and try to do nothing that will not add to it!
 
runningdude said:
Assuming your daughter is young, you should strongly consider not allowing her to attend the wedding, especially if the bride’s mother thought this sufficiently important to warn you.
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I agree…If the pastor can’t be persuaded to not make anti-Catholic remarks out of respect for the Catholic guests, or if the couple is unwilling to speak to him about it, I would be very hesitant about letting my child participate.

Please don’t stand up and protest like one poster suggested…that is incredibly rude. Attend or do not attend, but don’t make a scene during the ceremony.
 
TheWarriorMonk said:
Another option is to speak to the pastor directly. Tell him/her that their will be Catholics at the wedding and it would be inappropriate to discuss matters pertaining to other religions at the wedding.
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Guests should not try to make arrangements with the minister behind the wedding couple’s back. If he is the kind of person who would go on an anti-Catholic rant at a wedding, addressing him at all is not advised.
 
Dacinom said:
My mistake, thank you perhaps I didn’t clarify. In no way should the original poster call the minister with questions about his sermon because of hearsay! My suggestion was for them to call hoping they would ask him something like “I have questions about an upcoming wedding and the bride and groom are very busy. You are officiating and I hope it is okay to call you and ask your advice. My child is in the wedding and is unfamiliar with the setting, I would like to put my child at ease and so I wanted to call you and ask about the ceremony. We are a Catholic family and I was hoping you could help, thank you!”

Asking this question may not get them anywhere, and there still may be questions. But talking to the man just might help and calling him is not out of line. Just throwing another suggestion “out there.” My two cents most nine year olds don’t listen to adult sermons much anyway, but of course that can’t be counted on of course. God bless.
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Yes, for the sake of the Catholic parents, the bridal couple have standing to reassure themselves that this minister will not carry on as proposed.

Were it me, I’d replace someone who openly proposed pulling a stunt like that against my parents and in front of all of our friends and relatives. The bride and groom, however, are not me. They have their own reasons for the person they chose. If the parents can stand him, as a guest I’d stand him, and be quiet about it. If he deserves to get lambasted afterwards, or even on the spot, the bride and groom are the ones to do it. Otherwise, for their sake, the offense ought to be passed over, making the point with silence.
 
HAS it occurred to any of you that the pastor hasn’t done anything offensive yet?
That this is all SPECULATION that he MIGHT (based on what might be an overzealous warning)?

Chill.
 
MacQ said:
HAS it occurred to any of you that the pastor hasn’t done anything offensive yet?
That this is all SPECULATION that he MIGHT (based on what might be an overzealous warning)?

Chill.
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This is about protecting a young child from potentially having her faith shattered by a “minister” a wedding she is apart.

“Whoever should lead these little one’s astray, it would be better had he never been born at all”.
 
It doesn’t sound like the child’s faith would be shattered even if someone were to make terrible anti-Catholic remarks, which I just don’t think is going to happen at this wedding. I can see the pastor doing it in church when preaching. It just has no place at a wedding so why would he bring it up.

They family should stay calm and be nice and present themselves best light possible.
 
They can be just as supportive at the reception.
I would not go to be attacked verbally. No way. God doesn’t expect us to be doormats.
Didn’t Jesus say to kick the dust off our sandals and move on, when not welcomed? :hmmm:
 
With all of the different viewpoints that have been presented, it would be interesting to learn the final outcome so that we can be better prepared ourselves.
 
MacQ said:
HAS it occurred to any of you that the pastor hasn’t done anything offensive yet?
That this is all SPECULATION that he MIGHT (based on what might be an overzealous warning)?

Chill.
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The mother of the groom “was warned by the groom that the minister was going to make a remark about marriage not being a sacrament and would probably say some anti-Catholic things.” The groom contends that at another wedding he heard the actual talk the pastor intends to use, and therefore believes he knows whereof he speaks in some detail.

One hopes the pastor will think better of this, but since this would only be a repeat of past performance, it is better to warn the Catholics about the anxieties the groom saw fit to express, so that anyone likely to take hot offense can cool off and respond graciously, rather than reacting in surprise in a way they will later wish they had not.

But yes, “Chill” is an entirely appropriate response, and probably the best one. This is not a provocation that must be answered in some forceful way, and not the place or time for such an answer, if it were.
 
shelby_sun said:
It doesn’t sound like the child’s faith would be shattered even if someone were to make terrible anti-Catholic remarks, which I just don’t think is going to happen at this wedding. I can see the pastor doing it in church when preaching. It just has no place at a wedding so why would he bring it up.

They family should stay calm and be nice and present themselves best light possible.
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Unlike the hundreds of weddings everyday, where mother-in-laws don’t warn attendees that the pastor might make provocative statements, this wedding has such a warning. It is anomalous, and should be considered very carefully.
 
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