Stifle the Screwtape within us; ignore non-believers' push-buttons

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Anselm33

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Some of you may have read (or heard the great audio) of “The Screwtape Letters” by C.S. Lewis. In that he talks about an immaterial devil within us who is trying to divert us from belief and salvation and lead us to his uncle in hell, aided and abetted by modernists who talk down the Church, its dogma/doctrines/liturgy as being old hat and unscientific. I see in this Forum many of those modernist unbelievers who post topics and suggest notions that are in opposition to those of us who do have faith, invoking a morality based on science (even though most of them know nothing of what real science is about).

I’m not sure what their objective is;whether to show their intellectual superiority to us stupid faithful, or to tear down, like little children, a tower of blocks they cannot build. But whatever, I must confess in my own case the buttons they push have got reactions such that I have often ignored a fundamental Christian teaching: “turn the other cheek.”

Here’s what my response in the future to such provocations is going to be (and I urge others of the faithful, consulting their conscience) to follow a similar “turn the other cheek” response. I will not respond directly to posts that are meant to push-buttons, but attempt to post something positive relating to the topic.

Finally I should emphasize that not all atheists in this forum attempt to belittle the Church or believers. I’ve had some great discussions and learned much with some, so what’s said above isn’t meant to be a blanket indictment of non-believers who post in this Forum.
 
If by push-buttons you mean ad hominems and such, I agree. However, some of the push-buttons that are not ad hominems or personal attacks should not go unanswered, especially if the logic or facts are without foundation. Many people are watching, even if not participating in the threads. We have no way to gauge their intelligence or education and the effect of these push-buttons on them, and sometimes the push-buttons may be seemingly logical to younger viewers, even if they really aren’t. 🙂
 
I welcome any attacks on the Faith, polite or otherwise, because it offers an excellent opportunity to dispel their preconceptions and misconceptions! 🙂
 
Charlemagne_II said:
If by push-buttons you mean ad hominems and such, I agree. (snip) Many people are watching, even if not participating in the threads. We have no way to gauge their intelligence or education and the effect of these push-buttons on them, and sometimes the push-buttons may be seemingly logical to younger viewers, even if they really aren’t. 🙂
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I am more concerned about Catholics here that have a strong rightwing/fundamentalist attitude presenting any Church document of the past as an infallible statement to bulldoze their own pet opinion across. With this there is often a veiled or even outright message that if you don’t accept their view you will be condemned to hell along with those of other faiths and religions whatsoever. The pompous language used by some of those posters flies in the face of the humbleness of our dear Saviour.

What scares me is that they often totally ignore the statements and actions of the last four or five popes and the statements of the current Catechism of the Catholic Church. This to me is a greater danger than anything a non-believer can say because it can lead Catholics to disobedience within the Church to the Pope and Magisterium.
 
roveau

*I am more concerned about Catholics here that have a strong rightwing/fundamentalist attitude presenting any Church document of the past as an infallible statement to bulldoze their own pet opinion across. With this there is often a veiled or even outright message that if you don’t accept their view you will be condemned to hell along with those of other faiths and religions whatsoever. The pompous language used by some of those posters flies in the face of the humbleness of our dear Saviour. *
:rolleyes:
I can’t dispute that! Fortunately, I haven’t seen all that much of it in most of these threads. Fundamentalists, it should be remembered, are not always wrong on substance. It’s just the style of speaking that can sometimes be off-putting. Left wing radical Catholics can be just as off-putting when they defend pro-choice and gay marriage. Self righteousness rhetoric is a double-edged sword. :knight2: :rolleyes:
 
I would suggest reading suggest reading the antithesis to The Screwtape Letters (“The Michael Letters Heaven’s answer to Screwtape” )and suggesting it to the atheists you’ve been dealing with. I’ve suggested and even given the book to several of my acquaintances that proclaim to be athiests, and it’s caused them to question their own lives, and has even brought several back to the Church 🙂

a quote from the book:

“Though not well meant, Mark’s challenge for Charles to explain why he calls himself an atheist was the brightest moment of the day. Charles took the question to heart but couldn’t quite explain himself. The reason is so obvious to us; there is no such thing as an atheist. Only several hours later did Charles begin to understand.” Archangel Michael to Jacob in "The Michael Letters Heaven’s answer to Screwtape
 
regnar said:
I would suggest reading suggest reading the antithesis to The Screwtape Letters (“The Michael Letters Heaven’s answer to Screwtape” )and suggesting it to the atheists you’ve been dealing with. I’ve suggested and even given the book to several of my acquaintances that proclaim to be athiests, and it’s caused them to question their own lives, and has even brought several back to the Church 🙂

a quote from the book:

“Though not well meant, Mark’s challenge for Charles to explain why he calls himself an atheist was the brightest moment of the day. Charles took the question to heart but couldn’t quite explain himself. The reason is so obvious to us; there is no such thing as an atheist. Only several hours later did Charles begin to understand.” Archangel Michael to Jacob in "The Michael Letters Heaven’s answer to Screwtape
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Thanks for the reference; I’ll try to find it in our library, local and university.
Anselm
 
Anselm33 said:
Some of you may have read (or heard the great audio) of “The Screwtape Letters” by C.S. Lewis. In that he talks about an immaterial devil within us who is trying to divert us from belief and salvation and lead us to his uncle in hell, aided and abetted by modernists who talk down the Church, its dogma/doctrines/liturgy as being old hat and unscientific. I see in this Forum many of those modernist unbelievers who post topics and suggest notions that are in opposition to those of us who do have faith, invoking a morality based on science (even though most of them know nothing of what real science is about).

I’m not sure what their objective is;whether to show their intellectual superiority to us stupid faithful, or to tear down, like little children, a tower of blocks they cannot build. But whatever, I must confess in my own case the buttons they push have got reactions such that I have often ignored a fundamental Christian teaching: “turn the other cheek.”
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In the context of a philosophical discussion, I don’t think “turn the other cheek” applies so much as “correct error.” Of course, I find that having errors corrected, or even suggesting that there may be an error, or asking for clarification of a position that might lead to it becoming obvious that someone’s position is in error, all these things are major push-buttons, for non-believers and believers. I guess a lot of people, even though they post on a philosophy forum, have no idea how philosophy works. I wonder if there should be a permanent sticky on this, explaining the nature of philosophy as a frank give and take of arguments pro and contra, not just the airing of opinions with the expectation that everyone’s opinions are important and intrinsically deserving of respect. Why do people act as if their opinions should not be subjected to criticism or to Socratic questioning when they have chosen to post those opinions on a philosophy board? 🤷
 
95% of the “atheists” on this forum are nothing more than trolls. They mostly troll where the question of God is not part of the thread. You can pick them out almost immediately. They are here not to “convert” Catholics, but for entertainment. CAF is not alone in this, it happens in most if not all internet forums. CAF could use a flagging system similiar to CL (Craigslist) which would allow moderators to quickly delete non-sensical or off-topic posts.
 
Betterave said:
I guess a lot of people, even though they post on a philosophy forum, have no idea how philosophy works. I wonder if there should be a permanent sticky on this, explaining the nature of philosophy as a frank give and take of arguments pro and contra, not just the airing of opinions with the expectation that everyone’s opinions are important and intrinsically deserving of respect. Why do people act as if their opinions should not be subjected to criticism or to Socratic questioning when they have chosen to post those opinions on a philosophy board? 🤷
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I know exactly what you mean about people who think that their “opinions are important and intrinsically deserving of respect” and should not be subjected to criticism. i encountered someone here (who i won’t name) who even thinks people should be banned for not sharing his opinions and having the nerve to subject them to rational scrutiny:

“Conducting sociological surveys on the proportion of prayers presumably granted is demeaning to God, to the people who pray, and to the practice of religion. Those who pose such questions should be banned from this forum. Those who try, unsuccessfully, to destroy well established miraculous events should also be banned.”
 
Rocinante said:
I know exactly what you mean about people who think that their “opinions are important and intrinsically deserving of respect” and should not be subjected to criticism. i encountered someone here (who i won’t name) who even thinks people should be banned for not sharing his opinions and having the nerve to subject them to rational scrutiny:

“Conducting sociological surveys on the proportion of prayers presumably granted is demeaning to God, to the people who pray, and to the practice of religion. Those who pose such questions should be banned from this forum. Those who try, unsuccessfully, to destroy well established miraculous events should also be banned.”
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Dude, what are you doing? :slapfight:
really? Was bring up a “personal” thing really necessary?
 
NE_Catholic said:
Dude, what are you doing? :slapfight:
really? Was bring up a “personal” thing really necessary?
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well this poster has been calling me “screwtape” which i personally find offensive seeing as though screwtape is some sort of devil or demon. (i’m surprised the moderators and fellow forum members allow name-calling on this forum.) i also found betterave’s comments ironic in light of what i quoted from this poster. he takes personal offense to philosophical discussion and answers with personal attacks.
 
Rocinante said:
well this poster has been calling me “screwtape” which i personally find offensive seeing as though screwtape is some sort of devil or demon. (i’m surprised the moderators and fellow forum members allow name-calling on this forum.) i also found betterave’s comments ironic in light of what i quoted from this poster. he takes personal offense to philosophical discussion and answers with personal attacks.
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and being an atheist you can’t turn the other cheek? 😃
 
Rocinante said:
well this poster has been calling me “screwtape” which i personally find offensive seeing as though screwtape is some sort of devil or demon. (i’m surprised the moderators and fellow forum members allow name-calling on this forum.) i also found betterave’s comments ironic in light of what i quoted from this poster. he takes personal offense to philosophical discussion and answers with personal attacks.
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whoa, hold up there: what makes my comments ironic? :confused:
 
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