Stigmata...how, why?

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StrawberryJam said:
Well, if the topic is stigmata I sure would like to hear about stigmata if you don’t mind.
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O.K. I’m headed for bed. Sorry. I posted some links, I’m not sure, if you checked them, but if you are arguing that carbolic acid was used for the stigmata (Pio?) can you please provide a source. The Vatican did a thorough review on him all through the century even with one Pope attempting to show it was false, to no avail. Seclusion, check-ups, monitoring.

So let me get this straight: you think a man from young childhood, decides to become a monk, helps thousands of people throughout his life, takes confessions, does masses, prays for the sick and then in the nightime he sneeks carbolic acid somehow to everyone else’s ignorance for decades into his room which he pours on himself.

I’ll check up tomorrow night so won’t respond now. God Bless Agnostic.
 
Padre Pio´s five wounds were examined by several doctors, including Dr. Romanelli, director of the Barletta hospital, Dr. Festa and Dr. Bignami, profesor of pathology at Rome University.

There are countless witnesses to the fact that his wounds bled continually for 50 years, needing fresh bandages every day. Medically no one could explain how the wounds never became infected, given that they never closed and always appeared to be recent.

Somebody has mentioned carbonic acid on this thread. After an honest consideration of the FACTS concerning Padre Pio anybody can understand that this is absurd. And as for the other alternative, self- inflicted wounds, saints don´t do that kind of thing! :mad:

If you read an imparcial biography of St. Pio you´ll realize that nothing could be more alien to him than attracting attention by faking a miracle. Padre Pio was a holy man, more holy than any of us by a long way. If we don´t go about trying to manipulate other people with lies and magic tricks, how dare we accuse Padre Pio of such a thing?
 
KyivAndrew said:
O.K. I’m headed for bed. Sorry. I posted some links, I’m not sure, if you checked them, but if you are arguing that carbolic acid was used for the stigmata (Pio?) can you please provide a source.
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Don’t bother - this person refuses, after being asked twice, to provide sources.

It is not up to me to find the proof of this acid theory, it is up to Strawberry to provide it.

No proof, no argument.

~Liza
 
I learned in school (and I am sorry that I no longer have the text) that the only formally recognized male stigmatist was St. Francis of Assisi, because the feast of the Stigmata of St. Francis is on September 17th.

Although Pope Benedict XIV said he was “doubttful,” later, Pope Pius said that Francis’ stigmata was, “historically certain but not an article of faith.”

Here’s what the Catholic Encyclopedia says:
newadvent.org/cathen/14294b.htm
 
santodomingo said:
It´s not for us to say why God chooses to act in one way or another. If He wished St. Francis of Assisi and St. Pio of Petrelcina to bear His wounds (to name but two saints who have received the stigmata), I have no objections.

As for “superstitious minds”, I suppose in your worldview a man who is crucified and returns from the dead, is equally ridiculous. If you rule out miracles and all supernatural phenomena you cannot be catholic, because your faith is built upon a miracle!
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👍 Great point Santo…I certainly do not doubt the ability nor willingness of our God to perform such miracles. Miracles are his gig, indeed.

But does anyone have any thoughts on the results, if you will, that might flow from stigmatic occurrences? By that I mean, do you believe they could bring others closer to God by the display of awesome power…etc etc.

And this might be getting off topic slightly, I’m not sure, but what about crying statues etc…what’s up with that?
 
lizaanne said:
Don’t bother - this person refuses, after being asked twice, to provide sources.

It is not up to me to find the proof of this acid theory, it is up to Strawberry to provide it.

No proof, no argument.

~Liza
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She won’t provide proof, because there is none my friend. I have heard this “acid” story often, but the story itself was a hoax.

By the way, just thought i’d mention i have a piece of Padre Pio’s robe in my house.

God bless you.
 
MatthewCrossman said:
👍 Great point Santo…I certainly do not doubt the ability nor willingness of our God to perform such miracles. Miracles are his gig, indeed.

But does anyone have any thoughts on the results, if you will, that might flow from stigmatic occurrences? By that I mean, do you believe they could bring others closer to God by the display of awesome power…etc etc.

And this might be getting off topic slightly, I’m not sure, but what about crying statues etc…what’s up with that?
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With the crying statues, i believe (my personal idea) that they refer to Luke 19:40 where it says:

luke 19:39-40
  • 39Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”
40"I tell you," he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”*

Look up the weeping Christ statue in Boliva. It was given X-rays and filmed as it began to bleed. Inside the statute was nothing, the blood was tested and was real.
 
StrawberryJam said:
csicop.org/si/2008-05/nickell.html

There is no evidence that is reliable to indicate that there was anything supernatural about Padre Pio’s wounds. The catholic church never even called the wounds themselves a miracle.
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Neither you nor this article (yes, I read it) explains how there can be no scar from self-inflicted wounds. Also consider the source. I bet you think Dan Brown is a reliable source of information on the Vatican.
 
StrawberryJam said:
csicop.org/si/2008-05/nickell.html

There is no evidence that is reliable to indicate that there was anything supernatural about Padre Pio’s wounds. The catholic church never even called the wounds themselves a miracle.
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You will also notice that the author says “alleged” use of acid. He has no proof, it is all a feeble attempt at trying to explain the unexplainable.

Good luck. Unless God wants it known, it’s not going to be.

Read the story of Therese Neumann This woman never put herself willingly on display. Her family made no money from her condition. She was examined repeatedly and not found to be a fraud.

Strawberry - just accept it that not everything in life has to be explained and understood. There is such a thing as Faith, whether you decide to believe that or not.

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
You will also notice that the author says “alleged” use of acid. He has no proof, it is all a feeble attempt at trying to explain the unexplainable.

Good luck. Unless God wants it known, it’s not going to be.

Read the story of Therese Neumann This woman never put herself willingly on display. Her family made no money from her condition. She was examined repeatedly and not found to be a fraud.

Strawberry - just accept it that not everything in life has to be explained and understood. There is such a thing as Faith, whether you decide to believe that or not.

~Liza
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🙂

I couldn’t agree with you more! Not everything in life has to be explained and understood! That’s my primary objection to “God did it”😃

Ancient man could not make sense of all the natural events goin on around them and had to come up with reasons for why they were happening. Why did the earth quake? We got God angry. Why is there no rain? We angered God. And so it goes on and on even today.

They needed to have these things explained. They were scared. Death is scary right? What would be the best way to get rid of that fear? An afterlife?
 
ahollars said:
Neither you nor this article (yes, I read it) explains how there can be no scar from self-inflicted wounds. Also consider the source. I bet you think Dan Brown is a reliable source of information on the Vatican.
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Where are the photos of this claim there was no scar prior to his death?
 
StrawberryJam said:
I did not see any mention of photos of his hands when the stigmata disapeared.
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Now, you are being stubborn just for the sake of refusing to admit that you came into this forum with faulty evidence.

From your own article:

“For those who wonder: no, there is no visible trace of stigmata.”

Joe Nickell has a very long history of telling half-truths about the Church to portray it in the most negative light possible. The stuff he writes is nothing new.
 
ahollars said:
Now, you are being stubborn just for the sake of refusing to admit that you came into this forum with faulty evidence.

From your own article:

“For those who wonder: no, there is no visible trace of stigmata.”

Joe Nickell has a very long history of telling half-truths about the Church to portray it in the most negative light possible. The stuff he writes is nothing new.
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Is he the only thing you can find in the article that you can object to?

I have to wonder why you don’t object to the items in the article that are more alarming.:eek:

Padre Pio is not the catholic church anyway. I don’t think you have raised any objections that are substaintial in any way other than crying foul about Joe Nickell.

🤷
 
StrawberryJam said:
Is he the only thing you can find in the article that you can object to?

I have to wonder why you don’t object to the items in the article that are more alarming.:eek:

Padre Pio is not the catholic church anyway. I don’t think you have raised any objections that are substaintial in any way other than crying foul about Joe Nickell.

🤷
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AGAIN, YOU STILL DIDN’T ADDRESS THE POINT!!!

How does a man use acid to create a wound to charade as the stigmata and have no scar to show after it heals?

Answer the question, or are you admitting that you cannot?
 
ahollars said:
AGAIN, YOU STILL DIDN’T ADDRESS THE POINT!!!

How does a man use acid to create a wound to charade as the stigmata and have no scar to show after it heals?

Answer the question, or are you admitting that you cannot?
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His lacking a scar is really no evidence of anything and I think you understand that there are many reasons why there would be a seeming disapearance of it.
The evidence that we do have is alarming.
By the way, do you have the photos or not? I can’t seem to find any.

How much money was his order bringing in before the big guys shut them out of that end of it and took over that aspect? If this man was so wonderful, holy, and all that- why the controversy over money?
 
StrawberryJam said:
His lacking a scar is really no evidence of anything and I think you understand that there are many reasons why there would be a seeming disapearance of it.
The evidence that we do have is alarming.
By the way, do you have the photos or not? I can’t seem to find any.

How much money was his order bringing in before the big guys shut them out of that end of it and took over that aspect? If this man was so wonderful, holy, and all that- why the controversy over money?
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Ok ok - I’m not going to fight the money fight with you. You are going to pull that card out at every turn and it will result in a fruitless argument.

So - is this your only dog in the show? Just this one skeptical article from a guy who has a reputation for bashing the Church? That’s all you can come up with as proof? Because if you want us to start providing proof to the point of showing stigmata happening with no evidence of falsification, then we can bring it on big time.

The title of this thread asks – how, why? The how is of God, the why is to build the Church by bringing souls to Christ. Show me evidence to the contrary. The burden of truth lies with you.

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
Ok ok - I’m not going to fight the money fight with you. You are going to pull that card out at every turn and it will result in a fruitless argument.

So - is this your only dog in the show? Just this one skeptical article from a guy who has a reputation for bashing the Church? That’s all you can come up with as proof? Because if you want us to start providing proof to the point of showing stigmata happening with no evidence of falsification, then we can bring it on big time.

The title of this thread asks – how, why? The how is of God, the why is to build the Church by bringing souls to Christ. Show me evidence to the contrary. The burden of truth lies with you.

~Liza
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You told me to investigate a case that is mentioned in my article posted. Would you care to tell me why you would tell me to look into her case after what is mentioned about her in this article?

Who is making these claims? Um, I think the burden of proof for them lies with the ones making the claims.

Don’t you agree? Or are you willing to take any claim made without any basis to do so?

What good has any of this brought to the church as a whole? Name it.
 
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