Stigmata

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Faith1960

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We have another thread going on about whether Christ was nailed through His wrists or through His palms. The thread is beginning to veer toward stigmata and how their wounds are usually in their palms, so I wanted to begin a new thread about stigmata and the Church instead of highjacking the other thread.

Are the cannonizations of Padre Pio and any other Saints a title that can be revoked should it eventually be known later on that the reasons for their Sainthood is called into question? IOW, is Sainthood bestowed upon these Saints with Papal infallibility or does it allow for a possible mistake?

I think the Shroud of Turin may very well be the genuine burial cloth of Christ, but the Saints often have stigmata through their palms. Some of these may be supernatural, then again, maybe not. Perhaps they occur for a psychological reason. I think the Shroud has undergone far more scientific study than each individual stigmatist.

Thoughts? :confused:
 
Could it be possible that they entered the Nail through the palm and it exited out the Wrist, almost angled? Im sure the nails were of a large size and length.

God Bless.
 
Maria1993 said:
Could it be possible that they entered the Nail through the palm and it exited out the Wrist, almost angled? Im sure the nails were of a large size and length.

God Bless.
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It’s possible, yes. I wish we knew for sure, though, because IF the Shroud is genuine, that means that the CC made a mistake. 😦
 
Faith1960 said:
In cannonizing some Saints who bear the wounds of the stigmata.
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But stigmata doesn’t automatically mean that one is a saint. Saint Padre Pio led a holy and obedient life, as did Saint Francis of Assisi. Those are more the reasons they were canonized than because of the stigmata.

Besides, the Shroud only show the top of the hand. Having a nail enter the palm and exit through the wrist could still work. We only see the exit wound on the Shroud.
 
Faith1960 said:
We have another thread going on about whether Christ was nailed through His wrists or through His palms. The thread is beginning to veer toward stigmata and how their wounds are usually in their palms, so I wanted to begin a new thread about stigmata and the Church instead of highjacking the other thread.

Are the cannonizations of Padre Pio and any other Saints a title that can be revoked should it eventually be known later on that the reasons for their Sainthood is called into question? IOW, is Sainthood bestowed upon these Saints with Papal infallibility or does it allow for a possible mistake?

I think the Shroud of Turin may very well be the genuine burial cloth of Christ, but the Saints often have stigmata through their palms. Some of these may be supernatural, then again, maybe not. Perhaps they occur for a psychological reason. I think the Shroud has undergone far more scientific study than each individual stigmatist.

Thoughts? :confused:
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Canonisation is an infallible declaration that the person canonised is in Heaven. It cannot be revoked.
In the second place having a sigmata is NOT a condition or even a reason for canonisation.
 
thistle said:
Canonisation is an infallible declaration that the person canonised is in Heaven. It cannot be revoked.
In the second place having a sigmata is NOT a condition or even a reason for canonisation.
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Canonizations are not infallible. In fact, half a dozen or so were revoked just a couple years ago.
 
Farsight001 said:
Canonizations are not infallible. In fact, half a dozen or so were revoked just a couple years ago.
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Are you confusing “decanonization” with removing the particular saint from the General Calender? They’re still saints, they just don’t have a feast day. Many don’t.
 
The_Scott said:
Are you confusing “decanonization” with removing the particular saint from the General Calender? They’re still saints, they just don’t have a feast day. Many don’t.
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Pretty sure I’m not, but I suppose it’s possible.
 
Faith1960 said:
It’s possible, yes. I wish we knew for sure, though, because IF the Shroud is genuine, that means that the CC made a mistake. 😦
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No, it doesn’t. Stigmata are not scientific phenomena, they are spiritual (albeit expressed physically).
 
Farsight001 said:
Canonizations are not infallible. In fact, half a dozen or so were revoked just a couple years ago.
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They ARE infallible and not a single canonisation has been revoked. You are mistaken.
Removing saints from the calendar is not revoking canonisation.
 
thistle said:
Canonisation is an infallible declaration that the person canonised is in Heaven. It cannot be revoked.
In the second place having a sigmata is NOT a condition or even a reason for canonisation.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t St. Christopher’s canonization revoked or something?
 
  1. Canonizations cannot be revoked. And the modern process used currently is very thorough in examining every possible negativity that could indicate a person is not a saint. Several saints who’s existence is questionable, and for whom there is a lack of established history (St Valentine and St Philomena come to mind) were removed from the Roman Calendar. Though their existence is uncertain, they are still privately venerated by the faithful, and some churches have been given permission to celebrate a public liturgy. At no time was their canonization revoked. It is a done deed that cannot be undone.
  2. Drawing from the Church’s theology on mystical phenomena; it is a known fact that a person’s mystical experiences are colored by their life experiences. How they see things effects how they experience things. Therefore there is no cookie-cutter stigmata exactly alike from one individual to another. St Francis of Assisi is the first known stigmatic.
We know from various statues and pictures where the Stigmata are pictured on him. We also have writings by his contemporaries describing the phenomena. Francis prayed before the famed crucifix of San Damiano, look at where the wounds are shown on Our Lord on this icon. It is no coincidence therefore, that Francis would bear the wounds of Christ where they are shown on Christ, on the icon crucifix of San Damiano.

Now move forward to St (Padre) Pio. As a spiritual son of St Francis, he was of course also inspired and influenced by images of Francis, and that same San Damiano crucifix. Like his Savior and Seraphic Father, St Pio carries the wounds in the locations on the images of Christ and Francis.

Here is another example of how a mystic is influenced by personality, again using St Francis of Assisi. God told Francis to “Rebuild My Church”. Francis naively thought that Our Lord was talking about the crumbling Portiuncula, not the larger Catholic Church itself. He literally rebuilt the stone church with his own hands. Only much later did he actually carry out the work of rebuilding the Church with the founding of the First, Second and Third Orders; though he did not recognize that as such. Despite his not fully understanding what he was to do to rebuild the church, he nevertheless managed to do just that.

If the Shroud of Turin should be shown to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, there will not be any conflict with where the stigmata is shown on the Shroud, and where it appears on many stigmatics. Simply because the mystics’ experience of the stigmata is colored by their personal perception of it.
 
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