Stigmata?

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i have brought up this topic after watching a documentry about it. In case you dont know what stigmata is its when somebody suffers the wounds of jesus either physically or emotionally. Does any body believe stigmata? Iv heard about people faking it , then iv heard about padre pio who couldnt have faked it. Some critics say its just psycosematic, The brain creates the wounds. Could i have peoples thoughts on this topic. 🙂
 
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melbourne_guy:
i have brought up this topic after watching a documentry about it. In case you dont know what stigmata is its when somebody suffers the wounds of jesus either physically or emotionally. Does any body believe stigmata? Iv heard about people faking it , then iv heard about padre pio who couldnt have faked it. Some critics say its just psycosematic, The brain creates the wounds. Could i have peoples thoughts on this topic. 🙂
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Last year I heard a sermon by a man who had gone to private Mass with Pio when he was not able to practice publicly; I agree that Pio could not have been making it up.

That said, I am completely confident that the power of a human brain is enough to create wounds such as the stigmata. Whether the blood loss is medically significant I don’t know.

Personally I don’t think stigmata in itself is necessarily a “good” thing except as an indicator of intensive spiritual energy. As I understood it, some saints would rather have not had it – not so much to avoid the pain but to avoid the spectacle of it. Personally I would be terrified that if it was something that started in my mind because imagine how exalted a person must be when others hear about the stigmata – and how much of a fall that can set one up to have.

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Whether the blood loss is medically significant I don’t know
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The blood loss was very significant, he lossed a tea cup of blood every day for 50 years, and he only lived off enough food to feed a small child. I personally dont think that the brain has the power to keep someone from dieing from a loss of blood.
 
I heard that the brain/mind can cause illness, rashes (even in specified areas of the body) but cannot cause an open wound or external bleeding.
 
If you look at stigmatists like Padre Pio, he was a very humble man. He often prayed that the stigmata would not be visible. Because of his humbleness, I think the stigmata was a cross for him to carry because he did not desire all the attention that accompanied it. Just a thought.

God Bless,
Matt
 
did Jesus sweat blood during his pasion prayer?

has anyone with stigmata taken it to secular doctors?
 
Daniel Marsh:
did Jesus sweat blood during his pasion prayer?
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In Luke 22:44 it says the following:
44 He was in such agony and he prayed so fervently that his sweat became like drops of blood falling on the ground. Sweating blood is a possible when a person is under great stress.

God Bless,
Matt
 
I think the stigmata is “gifted” to some who love Jesus the way we’re all supposed to love Him…it’s difficult to explain, but that comes as close as I can to explaining it.
 
The stigmata, like any other spiritual phenomena, needs to be scrutinized by the Church.

Two saints that I know of, St. Francis of Assissi, and St. Pio have had it. I am sure there are more.

And, there are people who are living now who have it, and most likely, they will submit themselves to Church authorities and spiritual directors.

Yes, I have heard that it can be produced by the sub-conscious mind.
 
For a most thorough understanding of the phenomena of the stigmata, consult the “Mystical Doctor” Saint John of the Cross, in The Living Flame of Love, and The Spiritual Canticle.

";;;if God sometimes permits [a spiritual] effect to extend to the bodily senses in the fashion in which it existed interiorly, the wound and sore appear outwardly, as happened when the serpah wounded St. Francis. When his soul was wounded with love by the five wounds, their effect extended to the body, and these wounds were impressed on the body, which was wounded just as his soul was wounded with love.

“God does not usually bestow a favor on the body without bestowing it first and principally on the soul. Thus the greater the delight and strength of love the wound produces in the soul, so much greater is that wound produced outside on the body, and when there is an increase in one there is an increase in the other. This so happens because these souls are purified and established in God, and what is a cause of pain and toment to their corruptible flesh is sweet and delectable to their strong and healthy spirit…” (Living Flame of Love, 2:13)

One of St. John’s main points about the stigmata is that they represent a rare physical climax to the interior spiritual experiences previously granted by God to the soul in contemplative prayer. The interior spiritual experiences which he terms “wounds of love” are a normal - however uncommon - part of the life of prayer!
 
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tjmiller:
For a most thorough understanding of the phenomena of the stigmata, consult the “Mystical Doctor” Saint John of the Cross, in The Living Flame of Love, and The Spiritual Canticle.

";;;if God sometimes permits [a spiritual] effect to extend to the bodily senses in the fashion in which it existed interiorly, the wound and sore appear outwardly, as happened when the serpah wounded St. Francis. When his soul was wounded with love by the five wounds, their effect extended to the body, and these wounds were impressed on the body, which was wounded just as his soul was wounded with love.

“God does not usually bestow a favor on the body without bestowing it first and principally on the soul. Thus the greater the delight and strength of love the wound produces in the soul, so much greater is that wound produced outside on the body, and when there is an increase in one there is an increase in the other. This so happens because these souls are purified and established in God, and what is a cause of pain and toment to their corruptible flesh is sweet and delectable to their strong and healthy spirit…” (Living Flame of Love, 2:13)

One of St. John’s main points about the stigmata is that they represent a rare physical climax to the interior spiritual experiences previously granted by God to the soul in contemplative prayer. The interior spiritual experiences which he terms “wounds of love” are a normal - however uncommon - part of the life of prayer!
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Thank you for pointing out the writings of St. John of the Cross on this matter. We can’t go wrong listening to a Doctor of the Church!
 
Personally, I do believe in it. But it’s so much easier to believe a saint had it than some ordinary person- especially of our times. I’ve read of some ‘seers’ of recent times have had it and, quite frankly, makes me uncomfortable.

Anyway, a side question: I’ve always wondered why St Pio’s had stigmata in the palm of his hands, while many believe that Jesus was crucified with nails thru the wrists or thereabouts. And I do believe that the Shroud of Turin shows wounds thru the wrists.

Has there ever been an explanation for this?
 
I’ve forgotten where I’ve heard this, but I believe Padre Pio was so concerned about distracting others during mass he wore oven mitts to hide it.
Code: 
It's been while but I believe Padre Pio was examined my doctors to see if he wasn't causing the wounds himself in his sleep. The only real explanation for Stigmata would be, as many have suggestion, once own subconcious, but one thing that I like to keep in mind is this, if the power of their faith was so strong that it could litterally inflict wounds on himself, well thats just incredable!

And lastly, the Shroud of Turin does infact show the wounds of His crucifixtion on his wrists, but don't quote me on that ;) .
 
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AndrewS:
Personally, I do believe in it. But it’s so much easier to believe a saint had it than some ordinary person- especially of our times. I’ve read of some ‘seers’ of recent times have had it and, quite frankly, makes me uncomfortable.

Anyway, a side question: I’ve always wondered why St Pio’s had stigmata in the palm of his hands, while many believe that Jesus was crucified with nails thru the wrists or thereabouts. And I do believe that the Shroud of Turin shows wounds thru the wrists.

Has there ever been an explanation for this?
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I believe that Padre Pio had what is called an authentic Stigmata.
The fact that scientists can show that the nails went through the wrists, and also the Shroud of Turin, does not invalidate the authentic Stigmata of those who have it through the hands.
 
I have always wondered if the nails went through the wrist or hand! Nails through the wrist would hold the weight of the body, but I have also seen and read that victims were also tied to the cross… If that were the case a small nail through the palm would keep the victim from twisting his hand through the rope…just something to think about.
 
Let us presume Jesus was crucified through the wrist, as is now accepted by most people.

I doubt that this fact would mean Almighty God would necessarily inflict the stigmata in exactly the same place. It would be very uncomfortable, damage the wrist nerves, and render the person disabled for the rest of their life.

The expression of the wound is a symbol of their love for God and his love for them. Where it is specifically doesnt matter.

In Christ.

Andre.
 
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melbourne_guy:
Some critics say its just psycosematic, The brain creates the wounds. Could i have peoples thoughts on this topic. 🙂
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Some critics need to be more critical. There is no such thing as a psychosomatic physical injury that manifests as an open, bleeding wound.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
Some critics need to be more critical. There is no such thing as a psychosomatic physical injury that manifests as an open, bleeding wound.

– Mark L. Chance.
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How could one go about demonstrating this conclusively?

Alan
 
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Magicsilence:
Let us presume Jesus was crucified through the wrist, as is now accepted by most people.

I doubt that this fact would mean Almighty God would necessarily inflict the stigmata in exactly the same place. It would be very uncomfortable, damage the wrist nerves, and render the person disabled for the rest of their life.

The expression of the wound is a symbol of their love for God and his love for them. Where it is specifically doesnt matter.

In Christ.

Andre.
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My thoughts exactly.

I know someone who does not believe in St. Pio’s stigmata because of the discrepancy. Even though St. Pio has been declared a saint!
 
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AlanFromWichita:
How could one go about demonstrating this conclusively?
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The burden of proof lies with those who claim that stigmata is psychosomatic. Therefore, it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that a psychosomatic condition can account for open, bleeding wounds. Thus, the challenge is for the naysayers to find a single, documented example of someone believing a physical wound into existence.

Of course, in the interest in fairness, the fact that psychosomatic conditions cannot account for stigmata doesn’t demonstrate that stigmata has a divine origin.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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