Stigmata?

[AlanFromWichita]

mlchance:

The burden of proof lies with those who claim that stigmata is psychosomatic. Therefore, it is incumbent on them to demonstrate that a psychosomatic condition can account for open, bleeding wounds. Thus, the challenge is for the naysayers to find a single, documented example of someone believing a physical wound into existence.

Of course, in the interest in fairness, the fact that psychosomatic conditions cannot account for stigmata doesn’t demonstrate that stigmata has a divine origin.

– Mark L. Chance.

I agree with your logic, but not necessarily your premise – particularly if this is to be conclusive. To say the burden of proof lies with one group is to presuppose that the opposite is true.

The only way I would suppose the opposite is true is if we had documented evidence of the mechanism of the stigmata and knew it to be of physical origin. IOW, if we have examined maybe 5 cases of stigmata and found them all to have natural explanations, and none to the contrary, then I would accept your burden of proof – and from my position of ignorance on this I can see it certainly could be the case.

The other issue is that personally, I think that “psychosomatic” and “divine origin” are not necessarily disjoint, but also I think psychosomatic illnesses can manifest in ways that show a physical building up. The idea that among two unproven scenarios one is presupposed says more about the way we view things than what is actual truth.

For those who may not be on the same wavelength I think we are, I could describe it as saying, “you say X is so, and that Y is wrong unless I can prove it right. How can you be so sure that X is so?” The reply, “it is unless you can prove Y,” just isn’t doing it for me. :ehh:

Alan

 

[mlchance]

AlanFromWichita:

…but also I think psychosomatic illnesses can manifest in ways that show a physical building up.

Can a psychosomatic illness have physical effects? Certainly. Can one cause spontaneous, open, bleeding wounds that specifically mimic the wounds of Christ? No.

AlanFromWichita:

…For those who may not be on the same wavelength I think we are, I could describe it as saying, “you say X is so, and that Y is wrong unless I can prove it right. How can you be so sure that X is so?” The reply, “it is unless you can prove Y,” just isn’t doing it for me.

Agreed. At no point in time have I stated that because stigmata cannot be explained as the result of psychosomatic illness that it follows that stigmata is of divine origin.

In fact, I said:

mlchance:

Of course, in the interest in fairness, the fact that psychosomatic conditions cannot account for stigmata doesn’t demonstrate that stigmata has a divine origin.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Marilena]

Dorothy:

I believe that Padre Pio had what is called an authentic Stigmata.
The fact that scientists can show that the nails went through the wrists, and also the Shroud of Turin, does not invalidate the authentic Stigmata of those who have it through the hands.

 

[wcknight]

Doctors did examine Padre Pio’s wounds on several occasions. The really amazing thing is that the day after he died, they mysteriously disappeared. Padre Pio got his wish (that they become invisible) after he died.

Padre Pio is such an amazing saint that several books are written about. He was a modern day miracle worker. The miracles attributed to him number in the hundreds if not thousands. There is even one of him bringing a child back to life. I think he was the greatest saint of the last couple of hundred years.

 

[Dorothy]

wcknight:

Doctors did examine Padre Pio’s wounds on several occasions. The really amazing thing is that the day after he died, they mysteriously disappeared. Padre Pio got his wish (that they become invisible) after he died.

Padre Pio is such an amazing saint that several books are written about. He was a modern day miracle worker. The miracles attributed to him number in the hundreds if not thousands. There is even one of him bringing a child back to life. I think he was the greatest saint of the last couple of hundred years.

I’m sure it was thousands and thousands of miracles! And they are still happening. A friend of mine almost fell asleep at the wheel, and she said she saw Padrio Pio and snapped awake!

The Lord certainly used him as a special instrument. Many came back to their faith through him.

 

[Dorothy]

Dorothy:

I’m sure it was thousands and thousands of miracles! And they are still happening. A friend of mine almost fell asleep at the wheel, and she said she saw Padrio Pio and snapped awake!

The Lord certainly used him as a special instrument. Many came back to their faith through him.

I didn’t mean to use the past tense! Many are still coming back to the faith due to answered prayers!

 

[catlicgirl88]

AlanFromWichita:

Last year I heard a sermon by a man who had gone to private Mass with Pio when he was not able to practice publicly; I agree that Pio could not have been making it up.

That said, I am completely confident that the power of a human brain is enough to create wounds such as the stigmata. Whether the blood loss is medically significant I don’t know.

Personally I don’t think stigmata in itself is necessarily a “good” thing except as an indicator of intensive spiritual energy. As I understood it, some saints would rather have not had it – not so much to avoid the pain but to avoid the spectacle of it. Personally I would be terrified that if it was something that started in my mind because imagine how exalted a person must be when others hear about the stigmata – and how much of a fall that can set one up to have.

Alan

STIGMATA IS GOOD BECAUSE U ARE ABLE TO FEEL SOME OF THE PAIN OF JESUS , I DNT KNW IF ALL OF THEM BUT AT LEAST WENEVER U SIN THE PAIN U FEEL WILL BE A CONSTANT REMINDER OF JESUS’ PAST RYT? IT WILL EAT THROUGH UR CONSCIENCE.