Stigmatizing the demonically harassed?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CatholicGirl219
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CatholicGirl219

Guest
Is there a stigmatization associated with someone who is, or may be, demonically harassed/obsessed/etc. amongst Catholics and clergy in particular?

If so, what exactly is this stigma?

Would they (particularly clergy) avoid the person on purpose, refuse to help them on purpose, or even warn other people to avoid them? Are they considered “evil” secretly? Are they not trusted? Doubted as to their character?

I am trying to understand if there is a stigma against such people, particularly amongst clergy, and what it is if there is any. Any advice would be helpful.

Thank you.
 
Here’s how I understand it (anyone please feel free to correct me if necessary):

The church doesn’t leap to any quick opinions/judgments about such ppl. They only begin to suspect demonic influence on a troubled person when investigations along medical/psychiatric/scientific investigations have been exhausted. At that point the church’s role is to intervene, not judge.
 
I don’t know if I was demonically harassed, but I had symptoms that would make one suspect, especially when I was manic.

One thing I can tell you is many “friends” tell you they will always be there, call them anytime, blah blah blah. Then when you start being a little too weird, they’ll back off. Or if you display depressed symptoms with your affliction, you’re no fun anymore and people don’t want to hang around somebody who is a drag.

Also mental illness is “icky” and “vague” compared to a nice well-defined physical illness. And it’s easier to tell if somebody is progressing in a physical illness.

I suggest the stigma could be in a) not knowing what to do or say so they stay away, b) aren’t interested because they aren’t their fun ol’ selves, or just plain no fun if we didn’t know them, and c) I think many people fear they will become possessed or deranged by hanging around people who acted like I was acting.

Alan
 
CatholicGirl219 said:
Is there a stigmatization associated with someone who is, or may be, demonically harassed/obsessed/etc. amongst Catholics and clergy in particular?

If so, what exactly is this stigma?

Would they (particularly clergy) avoid the person on purpose, refuse to help them on purpose, or even warn other people to avoid them? Are they considered “evil” secretly? Are they not trusted? Doubted as to their character?

I am trying to understand if there is a stigma against such people, particularly amongst clergy, and what it is if there is any. Any advice would be helpful.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Not all the clergy or the Bishops for that matter are open to the reality of demon possession. Some believe that demonic possession is not real and that demons are “literary devices” used in Scripture. We need to pray for those priests and bishops.

Some of them may not want to get involved because getting involved in helping those who are truly demonically obssessed, oppressed, and possessed is a LOT of work. I have a friend who works with exorcists and studies demonology. This friend says that these experiences can affect people in ways that they could not have imagined.

The Church has a procedure that it goes through to ascertain whether someone is possessed or not. Catya is correct in his/her post.
 
Thank you for the advice.
Catya said:
Here’s how I understand it (anyone please feel free to correct me if necessary):

The church doesn’t leap to any quick opinions/judgments about such ppl. They only begin to suspect demonic influence on a troubled person when investigations along medical/psychiatric/scientific investigations have been exhausted. At that point the church’s role is to intervene, not judge.
Click to expand...
Yes, I do know that the church can be slow to form opinions.

What I am trying to understand is how others view them, in particular the clergy.

If the clergy suspected someone was not quite right, but was not sure if it was mental, spiritual, demonic, etc., would they prefer to avoid that person?

How do they see them?

It seems that historically people who others get the idea are demonically harassed, etc. are shunned. Is that right and does it still hold true today?

I read a post about a lady who did not want anyone to know her daughter was suffering from possession in Spain, because she did not want her to be stigmatized for life.

Does that really happen? Instead of seeing them as one would see a sick person (suffering and needing help) do they see them as someone to avoid, like an evil person or something?

I am trying to understand how these people are thought of in the minds of others, especially clergy.

@ AlanFromWichita : so true

@ Turtle Turtle - yes, you are on to what I wonder.

Thank you all.
 
It took me 6 years to get my house blessed just this past Lent… I no longer hear my name being called or see shadows…go figure. I learned to keep my mouth shut after the first dx of MI/ ptsd/ bi-polar…whatever they want to call it today. Yes, it is very difficult to break through a dx of mental illness and be taken seriously. Have found that conveying that you are trying to cover it “mind, body, and spirit” usually gets the best precautionary results. Tim
 
Samson01 said:
It took me 6 years to get my house blessed just this past Lent… I no longer hear my name being called or see shadows…go figure. I learned to keep my mouth shut after the first dx of MI/ ptsd/ bi-polar…whatever they want to call it today. Yes, it is very difficult to break through a dx of mental illness and be taken seriously. Have found that conveying that you are trying to cover it “mind, body, and spirit” usually gets the best precautionary results. Tim
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply.

Yeah, that is the thing I am wondering. Are they taken seriously? It seems like many times they are not, or they are looked down upon and shunned.

Is there that cultural stigma in our society today still with the harassed? Just trying to understand a lot of questions (see second post above).

Thanks and glad the house blessing helped 👍
 
CatholicGirl219 said:
Thank you for the advice.

Yes, I do know that the church can be slow to form opinions.

What I am trying to understand is how others view them, in particular the clergy.

If the clergy suspected someone was not quite right, but was not sure if it was mental, spiritual, demonic, etc., would they prefer to avoid that person?

How do they see them?

It seems that historically people who others get the idea are demonically harassed, etc. are shunned. Is that right and does it still hold true today?

I read a post about a lady who did not want anyone to know her daughter was suffering from possession in Spain, because she did not want her to be stigmatized for life.

Does that really happen? Instead of seeing them as one would see a sick person (suffering and needing help) do they see them as someone to avoid, like an evil person or something?

I am trying to understand how these people are thought of in the minds of others, especially clergy.

@ AlanFromWichita : so true

@ Turtle Turtle - yes, you are on to what I wonder.

Thank you all.
Click to expand...
This I don’t know and it is hard to say for all the members of the Church. I’m friends with my fo-pastor and we still are in contact with each other. He is a very level headed secular Priest, but see’s when the Lord is at work and won’t interfere at times. I think you may find that clergy will see this at times too and won’t interfere unless the other options have been exhausted. This discernment of spirits is one of the higher gifts not many have and takes time to do. First, what is it the Lord wants and why is He allowing one to be harassed? Is the person in persistant sin? Are the Sacraments/ Sacramentals availible to this person? Is it a generational thing? Is it a MI/ or imagination? All this must be considered, I’m sure. Padre says the Catholic answer in an either/or situation is “both”. This is a wise answer. Tim
 
I begin with the assumption that the individual reporting such phenomena is suffering from psychological factors. That is not stigmatizing the individual. It is recognizing that, more than likely, that is the case.

There should be no stigma in mental illness.

IMO most (99% or more) of the threads on CAF regarding demonic activity are not supernatural in orgin.

I am a licensed therapist with years of treating individuals living with mental illness and have met more than 100 individuals who describe their issues as demonic in origin, who are in actuality, dealing with the difficult symptoms of intense mania or psychosis.
 
Samson01 said:
This I don’t know and it is hard to say for all the members of the Church. I’m friends with my fo-pastor and we still are in contact with each other. He is a very level headed secular Priest, but see’s when the Lord is at work and won’t interfere at times. I think you may find that clergy will see this at times too and won’t interfere unless the other options have been exhausted. This discernment of spirits is one of the higher gifts not many have and takes time to do. First, what is it the Lord wants and why is He allowing one to be harassed? Is the person in persistant sin? Are the Sacraments/ Sacramentals availible to this person? Is it a generational thing? Is it a MI/ or imagination? All this must be considered, I’m sure. Padre says the Catholic answer in an either/or situation is “both”. This is a wise answer. Tim
Click to expand...
Hi Tim,

Thank you for the reply.

Forgive me if this sounds strange, but do you mean in other words that priests may feel some parishioners in a parish are worth helping and others are not?

I can understand if a priest tried to help someone who was being demonically harassed and was doing sinful things (like using drugs or being promiscuous) and the priest told them to stop those things but they would not, and eventually the priest had to say “if you do not stop these things your harassment will never stop either so for me to go on trying to help will not be effective unless you stop.”

I can see a situation like that.

But would a priest really just refuse to help someone because they felt they were not worth helping?

Also, when you say “see’s when the Lord is at work and won’t interfere at times” I was not sure what you meant there. Do you mean the priest may see that the lord is at work (trying to bring something good out of it for the harassed) and does not want someone to intervene at that point in time, but the harassed is still worthy of help and can be helped later, or do you mean that the lord just does not want anyone to help the harassed person at all?

I appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks 🙂

@ ringil - what do you think of the case where an exorcist exorcised a mental institution and almost emptied it?

Thanks to all for the thoughts and (name removed by moderator)ut! I appreciate it very much.
 
CatholicGirl219 said:
Hi Tim,

Thank you for the reply.

Forgive me if this sounds strange, but do you mean in other words that priests may feel some parishioners in a parish are worth helping and others are not?

I can understand if a priest tried to help someone who was being demonically harassed and was doing sinful things (like using drugs or being promiscuous) and the priest told them to stop those things but they would not, and eventually the priest had to say “if you do not stop these things your harassment will never stop either so for me to go on trying to help will not be effective unless you stop.”

I can see a situation like that.

But would a priest really just refuse to help someone because they felt they were not worth helping?

Also, when you say “see’s when the Lord is at work and won’t interfere at times” I was not sure what you meant there. Do you mean the priest may see that the lord is at work (trying to bring something good out of it for the harassed) and does not want someone to intervene at that point in time, but the harassed is still worthy of help and can be helped later, or do you mean that the lord just does not want anyone to help the harassed person at all?

I appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks 🙂

@ ringil - what do you think of the case where an exorcist exorcised a mental institution and almost emptied it?

Thanks to all for the thoughts and (name removed by moderator)ut! I appreciate it very much.
Click to expand...
I mean that if some see that the Lord is working in someones life for a better good, they may not interfere until they see an opportunity. It is much like the catapiller emrging from a cacoon.
doodlelyn.hubpages.com/hub/How-Adversity-Makes-You-Strong
 
ringil said:
I begin with the assumption that the individual reporting such phenomena is suffering from psychological factors. That is not stigmatizing the individual. It is recognizing that, more than likely, that is the case.

There should be no stigma in mental illness.

IMO most (99% or more) of the threads on CAF regarding demonic activity are not supernatural in orgin.

I am a licensed therapist with years of treating individuals living with mental illness and have met more than 100 individuals who describe their issues as demonic in origin, who are in actuality, dealing with the difficult symptoms of intense mania or psychosis.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your great post! :tiphat:

My SD said people have physical, mental, spiritual, social, sexual, and emotional components. It’s probably really common to have problems in several areas. For me, it was spiritual/emotional/mental. You could probably use to either get an expert in the different areas to consult, or someone who is more holistic and can refer you if you need further help in one of the six areas.

Would you agree with that?

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
Thank you for your great post! :tiphat:

My SD said people have physical, mental, spiritual, social, sexual, and emotional components. It’s probably really common to have problems in several areas. For me, it was spiritual/emotional/mental. You could probably use to either get an expert in the different areas to consult, or someone who is more holistic and can refer you if you need further help in one of the six areas.

Would you agree with that?

Alan
Click to expand...
I agree that helping folks use their spirituality/religion as an aide in dealing with mental illness can be key.

Yes, all life challenges, including mental illness work on the bio-psychosocial-spiritual realms. Often taking a “multi-pronged” approach can be really effective.

Part of being a culturally sensitive clinician can include encouraging, say, different ethnic groups in pursuing their ritual or spiritual practices as an adjunct in coping with mental illness. This can be especially relevant in working with some Southeast Asian, Central American, and Hatian populations.

If a client is a practicing Catholic and obtains strength from their faith, a competant therapist would encourage them to use this powerful resource.
 
Samson01 said:
I mean that if some see that the Lord is working in someones life for a better good, they may not interfere until they see an opportunity. It is much like the catapiller emrging from a cacoon.
doodlelyn.hubpages.com/hub/How-Adversity-Makes-You-Strong
Click to expand...
Ok, thank you. I think I understand, although not entirely because then I think if someone was being attacked on a street, why stand back and keep letting them get attacked? If they are hanging on by one finger, why let them keep dangling when one knows that one finger cannot hold out much longer?

Would they simply not help because they do not think someone is worth helping at all? :hmmm:
 
ringil said:
I begin with the assumption that the individual reporting such phenomena is suffering from psychological factors. That is not stigmatizing the individual. It is recognizing that, more than likely, that is the case.

There should be no stigma in mental illness.

IMO most (99% or more) of the threads on CAF regarding demonic activity are not supernatural in orgin.

I am a licensed therapist with years of treating individuals living with mental illness and have met more than 100 individuals who describe their issues as demonic in origin, who are in actuality, dealing with the difficult symptoms of intense mania or psychosis.
Click to expand...
How did you determine that the problems were not demonic in origin?
 
I don’t have anything to add, but I wanted to thank you CatholicGirl219 for the thread. I’ve often wondered the same thing.
 
CatholicGirl219 said:
Ok, thank you. I think I understand, although not entirely because then I think if someone was being attacked on a street, why stand back and keep letting them get attacked? If they are hanging on by one finger, why let them keep dangling when one knows that one finger cannot hold out much longer?

Would they simply not help because they do not think someone is worth helping at all? :hmmm:
Click to expand...
No, everyone is worth helping, I was refering to spiritual attacks only. Usually subtle in nature. The enemy doesn’t want to be considered in such an attack. It would rather discredit a witness first. It wants the “patient” on it’s own and isolated. No coincidence Lewis refers to the afflicted as “patient” in Screwtape Letters… Hope this clears thing up a bit. Samson
 
MtnDwellar said:
How did you determine that the problems were not demonic in origin?
Click to expand...
Well, I start with the assumption that the individual is dealing with mental illness. All 100% of the individuals I have dealt with having religious delusions (one of the most common dclasses of delusions) have presented symptoms consistent with some form of psychotic or severe manic episode. Some have also had some transitory deliruim. even saw a woman who made stained glass as a hobby and in dealing with some toxic material became highly psychotic and religiously pre-occupied. Following just three days of treatment she was back to normal and was amazed at her previous mental state. One key demonstration of a biological/psychiatric cause lies in the lessening of symptoms when the client is taking their medication, and when they stop taking it, the delusions come back or increase from before.

I’ve done my fair share of reading on the subject of demonic activity as it is fascinating to me, and I believe that it does occur. I believe it is rare and in the thousads of individuals I have had contact with- I have never seen it. I have seen MANY folks wearing several scapulars and titerally jingling with rosaries and metals. Throwing holy water and salt- all that stuff. However these folks were mentally ill not facing demonic attack.

I understand that mental health professinals are known to assist the Church in investigations of possible demonic activity and I fully support that.

I have no experience in dealing with the demonic personally so I am no expert on the matter. However, I do know something of serious mental illness and I can state with assurance that I have not encountered an individual desplaying overt demonic manifestation.

Perhaps I will one day. I don’t know.
 
ringil said:
Well, I start with the assumption that the individual is dealing with mental illness. All 100% of the individuals I have dealt with having religious delusions (one of the most common dclasses of delusions) have presented symptoms consistent with some form of psychotic or severe manic episode. Some have also had some transitory deliruim. even saw a woman who made stained glass as a hobby and in dealing with some toxic material became highly psychotic and religiously pre-occupied. Following just three days of treatment she was back to normal and was amazed at her previous mental state. One key demonstration of a biological/psychiatric cause lies in the lessening of symptoms when the client is taking their medication, and when they stop taking it, the delusions come back or increase from before.

I’ve done my fair share of reading on the subject of demonic activity as it is fascinating to me, and I believe that it does occur. I believe it is rare and in the thousads of individuals I have had contact with- I have never seen it. I have seen MANY folks wearing several scapulars and titerally jingling with rosaries and metals. Throwing holy water and salt- all that stuff. However these folks were mentally ill not facing demonic attack.

I understand that mental health professinals are known to assist the Church in investigations of possible demonic activity and I fully support that.

I have no experience in dealing with the demonic personally so I am no expert on the matter. However, I do know something of serious mental illness and I can state with assurance that I have not encountered an individual desplaying overt demonic manifestation.

Perhaps I will one day. I don’t know.
Click to expand...
So, you are saying that since the patient responded positively to the treatment the diagnosis is correct? Is there another possibility?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top