Still Having Problems

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TristanCross

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When I see and read sites like JustForCatholics.org, I’m stumped. Their arguments are so great. I can’t refute it at all.

I’m just looking for Truth. I’m just looking for Jesus. I’m looking to glorify God. I wish God would just tell me, “Do this”. What is my Authority? The Church or the Bible or both? Is faith by works or faith or both? I hate this division. Why God! Why can I not see!?

I’m lost, dazed and confused. I just wish God would talk to me. You know? 😦

Edit: Look at this:

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III.
*We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.
*
The Catholic Church claims to be the pillar of our faith and pillar of truth. Irenaeus, who is look at very highly by Catholics, says it’s Scripture.

Augustine, De Unitate Ecclesiae, 10.
*Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. *

Augustine spoke against Catholic Bishops! What’s up with that!? :eek:
 
TristanCross said:
When I see and read sites like JustForCatholics.org, I’m stumped. Their arguments are so great. I can’t refute it at all.

I’m just looking for Truth. I’m just looking for Jesus. I’m looking to glorify God. I wish God would just tell me, “Do this”. What is my Authority? The Church or the Bible or both? Is faith by works or faith or both? I hate this division. Why God! Why can I not see!?

I’m lost, dazed and confused. I just wish God would talk to me. You know? 😦

Edit: Look at this:

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III.
*We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.
*
The Catholic Church claims to be the pillar of our faith and pillar of truth. Irenaeus, who is look at very highly by Catholics, says it’s Scripture.

Augustine, De Unitate Ecclesiae, 10.
*Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. *

Augustine spoke against Catholic Bishops! What’s up with that!? :eek:
Click to expand...
First of all, if you are truly seeking truth and God’s will for your life, then stop visiting sites like JustForCatholics.com. These people are not interested in truth, only in vilifying the Catholic Church.

St. Irenaeus also said:

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.” (Against the Heresies 3:3:1-2)

St. Augustine also said:

“…there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings… But the admonition that he [Cyprian] gives us, ‘that we should go back to the fountain, that is, to apostolic tradition, and thence turn the channel of truth to our times,’ is most excellent, and should be followed without hesitation” (Against the Donatists, 5:23[31]-26[37]).

Also, it’s not at all surprising that St. Augustine would speak against Catholic bishops. There were many heresies being fought in the early Church and bishops were not immuned to error. Remember the Arian heresy which denied the divinity of Christ. At one point the majority of Catholic bishops held to this error. But as the faithful bishop St. Athanasius of the 4th century once said, “Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ.”

If we want to know the truth and the correct meaning of Sacred Scripture, we look to the tradition of Holy Mother Church.
 
TristanCross said:
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III.
We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.

The Catholic Church claims to be the pillar of our faith and pillar of truth. Irenaeus, who is look at very highly by Catholics, says it’s Scripture.
Click to expand...
Saint Irenaeus in Against Heresies is referring to the Gospel as being the ground and pillar of our faith, a Gospel which is handed on both orally (Scripture) and written (Tradition).

Placing this quote from Against Heresies against 1 Timothy 3:15 and claiming they refer to the same thing is the perfect example of taking words out of context and trying to force them to say something completely different from the original intent.
TristanCross said:
Augustine, De Unitate Ecclesiae, 10.
*Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. *

Augustine spoke against Catholic Bishops! What’s up with that!? :eek:
Click to expand...
All I see is Saint Augustine saying that we should not agree with a bishop who speaks in error. I’d call that pretty sound advice 😛

If you back up just a bit in De Unitate Ecclesiae, you will read the following:

Let us not hear, this I say, this you say; but thus says the Lord. Surely it is the books of the Lord on whose authority we both agree and which we both believe. There let us seek the Church, there let us discuss our case.

And this sounds to me like Saint Augustine believed we should rely on what the Lord says through Scripture rather than our own personal interpretation of Scripture. And how do we determine when Scripture speaks with the voice of the Lord rather than our own voice? Seek the Church. Just like a good Catholic!
 
Salvation is only through the Cross of Christ. Jesus is Lord and Savior and He has shown us the way by His Life, Death, & Rising from the Dead.

His Church on Earth, (The only Church Founded in Person By Christ), The Catholic Church is responsible for keeping and presenting the message of Christ. The Bible is the Word of God and should be taken as such. It is without flaw.

We are justified by faith in Christ, But we are called to perform good works as signs to others and because they are pleasing to Our Father in Heaven. Simply calling yourself a Christian and saying that you are saved is not enough. Salvation can be lost just as surely as it can be gained. God gave us free will and by exercising that will we can be lost and well as found.

Keep Praying, Have Faith in the True God, (The Trinity), and Learn from The Church. You will stumble and fall, but God is always willing to help us up again, as long as we do not give up.

May God Bless You Always.

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!
 
TristanCross said:
…Edit: Look at this:

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III.
*We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.
*
The Catholic Church claims to be the pillar of our faith and pillar of truth. Irenaeus, who is look at very highly by Catholics, says it’s Scripture.

Augustine, De Unitate Ecclesiae, 10.
*Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God. *

Augustine spoke against Catholic Bishops! What’s up with that!? :eek:
Click to expand...
On the Quote by Irenaeus: He said in the sentence before that oral Tradition has brought the Gospel down to us. True. Then he says that the Gospel has been written down as Scripture too. This is true. The commas make it confusing, but he is saying that the Gospel is the ground and pillar of our Faith. This is all true. You need to remember who it was that wrote the Bible. Tradition and Scripture are both correct. In fact, in the Eastern Catholic Churches, Tradition holds the highest place, and the Bible is a part of Tradition. Think about that: The Bible is part of Tradition, because it was created based on the Traditions of the Church.

As for the quote by St. Augustine: He is correct. Bishops can err in their teachings! As we have seen by Vatican II many of them do quite a bit now! Look how they often mislead the people into believing heresies, encourage abuses in the liturgy, and how many of them have done terrible scandalous things in handling the abuse of children. If the bishop is wrong, it is best not to trust them. They can err. Even the pope, the bishop of Rome, does sometimes!

Have you ever been to a Mass? And I mean, a good traditional Mass. If not, you should go. Some Masses may be indistinguishable from your Lutheran service nowadays. But if you go to a reverent solemn Mass or Latin Mass, you will understand.

And by the way, I prayed for you last night. God bless you.
 
Thank you all for your helps. I really appreciate you all taking time for me. I feel kinda selfish :o

I’m just a man who want to please God to the fullest. I don’t want to do something He doesn’t approve of. He’s my God.

Thanks again.
 
I’m just looking for Truth. I’m just looking for Jesus. I’m looking to glorify God. I wish God would just tell me, “Do this”. What is my Authority? The Church or the Bible or both? Is faith by works or faith or both? I hate this division. Why God! Why can I not see!?
God generally works through people, doesn’t He?
 
I’m a simple man and if you’re anything like me then you like to keep things simple too.

It doesn’t get anymore simple than this:

Matthew 16:18
“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

Keep that in mind anytime any protestant tries to rob you of your faith. There’s not a single protestant denomination that can claim apostolic origin. Every argument can be boiled down to this cold hard truth. The only Church given the Divine promise above is the first one - the Catholic Church - the Holy and Spotless Bride of Christ. No protestant denomination can trace it’s origin to the Apostles and thus cannot lay claim to this wonderful promise of Christ.
 
I just realized in your heading that you are a “Catholic in training” - my post above was based on the assumption that you were already Catholic.

Nevertheless it’s true and still applies. 🙂

God Bless you,
 
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