Still struggling with the faith

[Leonius]

Let’s be serious, do you honestly think that every woman who goes up for Communion is not using some sort of birth control?? In a perfect world, it’s 100% but just look at how much dissention is in these threads. Who’s 100%? Seriously, talk to your pastor.

Those women are in mortal sin and receive the sacrament to their own destruction, the existence of sinners does not mean its ok to be a sinner. To reject even one part of the faith is to reject it all.

“Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith; for, unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost forever. This is the Catholic faith: everyone must believe it firmly and steadfastly, otherwise he cannot be saved.” (The Athanasian Creed)

If anyone does not profess properly and truthfully all that has been handed down and taught publicly to the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church of God, to the last detail in word and intention: let him be anathema. (I Lateran Council)

Faith is not to be argued over. Either you accept it with your eyes closed admitting the inadequacy of the human mind to understand its mysteries, or you reject it. There is no middle way. (Padre Pio)

 

[ac_claire]

Those quotes Leonius posted are good, especially the Padre Pio one. There’s also another quote that I can’t find for the life of me, it’s by a saint…something to the effect of “a hundred questions don’t equal one single doubt.”

Basically, you don’t have to understand it. Take comfort in knowing that some of the greatest saints probably understood the ins and outs of Church doctrine even less than you do. But they loved God and were willing to believe Him. Just be willing to believe.

 

[lookaround]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=229077

Attending false worship is a sin against faith and is forbidden is what i was taught as a child.

“So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics:” Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos (# 10), Jan. 6, 1928

Thank you.
I have done some research and it looks like it is permissible as long as we do not take their communion. I respect what you have been taught, but I would (with love) recommended comparing that with what the Church teaches.
If however I am mistaken and you do have an official teaching of the church on this, then please let me know.

 

[Rolltide]

Thank you.
I have done some research and it looks like it is permissible as long as we do not take their communion. I respect what you have been taught, but I would (with love) recommended comparing that with what the Church teaches.
If however I am mistaken and you do have an official teaching of the church on this, then please let me know.

You are correct. It was forbidden to attend Protestant and non-Christian services before Vatican II, but it is permissible now, as long as you don’t partake in Communion and realize that it is never a substitute for the Sunday obligation. The only problem with it is that Protestant sermons might contain errors with regard to our faith, so you will have to be wary of that.

 

[Leonius]

Thank you.
I have done some research and it looks like it is permissible as long as we do not take their communion. I respect what you have been taught, but I would (with love) recommended comparing that with what the Church teaches.
If however I am mistaken and you do have an official teaching of the church on this, then please let me know.

Mortalium Animos is official Church teaching.

 

[Leonius]

You are correct. It was forbidden to attend Protestant and non-Christian services before Vatican II, but it is permissible now, as long as you don’t partake in Communion and realize that it is never a substitute for the Sunday obligation. The only problem with it is that Protestant sermons might contain errors with regard to our faith, so you will have to be wary of that.

That is not the only problem, in fact it is not even the main problem, the main problem is that it creates the impression and suggests that the person attending believes that false worship is of equal value to the Mass.

Christ is not at the protestant Services, He is however to be found at the Catholic Church in the tabernacle whether Mass is taking place or not, if you really believe that why would you choose to spend time with protestants rather than with Christ?

And lookaround why waste my time asking for where it is taught that we should not attend their false services if when I do so you have no intention of ceasing your attendance anyway?

“This being so, it is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies, nor is it anyway lawful for Catholics either to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ.” Mortalium Animos

Is that not clear enough? Mortalium Animos is official Church teaching from the Pope himself as you asked. Here read it for yourself:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html

 

[lookaround]

And lookaround why waste my time asking for where it is taught that we should not attend their false services if when I do so you have no intention of ceasing your attendance anyway?

That is not true.

What you posted is interesting since it is referring to disunity and how Christians are to be no part of it. Since there is a “sacramental bond of the unity of Christians” in baptism, there is union (though imperfect).

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82
CCC

 

[Leonius]

I am not interested in your excuses, I have answered your question it is up to you what you do with that information.

 

[ac_claire]

Some of you may remember in a previous thread about how I have been struggling as a Catholic. I believe in God (more then anything), but my faith in the RCC and some of its teachings are weak. I have still been attending Catholic worship, but I have not taken Communion for what feels like forever.
I have also been attending a nondenominational church with a friend. I enjoy worshiping there, but I am not sure if that is the direction God wants me to go.

I have done some research and it looks like it is permissible as long as we do not take their communion. I respect what you have been taught, but I would (with love) recommended comparing that with what the Church teaches. If however I am mistaken and you do have an official teaching of the church on this, then please let me know.

Yes, the CCC tells us now that attending protestant services under certain circumstances is permitted. But look at the full picture. The cautions that bookend that permission combined with the centuries of Church teaching against the practice that preceded it tell us clearly that it’s not recommended. In other words, the CCC gives us an explanation of the moral dimensions of attending protestant services but it in no way should be seen as recommendations or instructions on how to do it.

It’s not good for us to focus on doing what is, under certain limited circumstances, “permitted.” Instead we should try to do what pleases God the most and what is the best for us. I would love to see in you a sincere desire to come home to the Church. You strive for this sincerely and God will bless you for it.

This goes for everyone but it goes 200% for someone like you who is struggling with a spiritual weakness. In my opinion, you’re playing with fire. Your faith in the Catholic Church is not going to be strengthened by attending anti-Catholic services which are at best only watered-down imitations of what you can have for real at a Catholic Mass.

 

[Leonius]

I don’t believe the CCC does say its permissible but I wound be interested in seeing that if you have a reference.

 

[ac_claire]

I need to correct my post above, I can’t find anywhere in the CCC where attending protestant services is permitted. Only thing I can find is several places online where priests, apologists, canon lawyers and other Church representatives advise that:

a.) receiving communion at non-Catholic services is not allowed and

b.) attending non-Catholic religious services does not fulfill our Sunday obligation.

Can’t find anyplace where Catholics are straight-up given permission to attend non-Catholic services or are advised to do so.

 

[lookaround]

Yes, the CCC tells us now that attending protestant services under certain circumstances is permitted. But look at the full picture. The cautions that bookend that permission combined with the centuries of Church teaching against the practice that preceded it tell us clearly that it’s not recommended. In other words, the CCC gives us an explanation of the moral dimensions of attending protestant services but it in no way should be seen as recommendations or instructions on how to do it.

It’s not good for us to focus on doing what is, under certain limited circumstances, “permitted.” Instead we should try to do what pleases God the most and what is the best for us. I would love to see in you a sincere desire to come home to the Church. You strive for this sincerely and God will bless you for it.

This goes for everyone but it goes 200% for someone like you who is struggling with a spiritual weakness. In my opinion, you’re playing with fire. Your faith in the Catholic Church is not going to be strengthened by attending anti-Catholic services which are at best only watered-down imitations of what you can have for real at a Catholic Mass.

Thank you.
I hope to be attending Mass today.

 

[lookaround]

I am not interested in your excuses, I have answered your question it is up to you what you do with that information.

I am sorry that you feel it is an excuse. Thank you for the information, but I disagree (at this time) with your interpretation.
I admit that I am human and a sinner, so I could very well be wrong.
But I will trust in God that he will lead me in the right direction.

-Peace

 

[Leonius]

I am sorry that you feel it is an excuse. Thank you for the information, but I disagree (at this time) with your interpretation.
I admit that I am human and a sinner, so I could very well be wrong.
But I will trust in God that he will lead me in the right direction.

-Peace

What makes you think God is leading you if you do not have grace in you?

God leads His people thorough the Pope, the only person you are following is yourself. Mortalium Animos is the Pope leading, God speaking through him, it is not my opinion nor my interpretation, we are not protestants here, you can read the document yourself it is perfectly clear and does not require interpretation.

Likewise the link I posted to Father Serpa, a Catholic Priest who has the authority of God to teach on these matters also saying Catholics must not attend false worship, again you ignore God speaking to you through His priest.

God is not going to bless you with a special revelation when you have already ignored Him speaking to you in the ordinary way He speaks to His people.

 

[ac_claire]

I am sorry that you feel it is an excuse. Thank you for the information, but I disagree (at this time) with your interpretation.
I admit that I am human and a sinner, so I could very well be wrong.
But I will trust in God that he will lead me in the right direction.

Nobody is telling you to not trust that God will lead you in the right direction. Don’t confuse the issue here. We’re saying to be prudent and show that you want to believe the truth about the Catholic faith. This is turning your will over to God and that’s what He will bless.

 

[lookaround]

God leads His people thorough the Pope, the only person you are following is yourself. Mortalium Animos is the Pope leading, God speaking through him, it is not my opinion nor my interpretation, we are not protestants here, you can read the document yourself it is perfectly clear and does not require interpretation.

Why would we receive instruction on how to act at their worship if we are not to attend their worship?
cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=225

Likewise the link I posted to Father Serpa, a Catholic Priest who has the authority of God to teach on these matters also saying Catholics must not attend false worship, again you ignore God speaking to you through His priest.

It appear to me that Fr. Serpa is addressing communion at a non-catholic worship.

apparently I am not the only one
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=229138

btw today at Mass the Priest talked about the importance of unity.

 

[lookaround]

double post

 

[lookaround]

What makes you think God is leading you if you do not have grace in you?

Would someone attend Mass without grace?

 

[Leonius]

Would someone attend Mass without grace?

Yes people in mortal sin go to Mass all the time.

There is true unity and false unity, go and read the document I posted from the Pope to find out the difference that is covered in there as well.

A document from a lay organisation does not trump a papal encyclical. And can you honestly say you do not do this?:

"It is important that the Catholic does not give the impression that there is no real separation between Catholics and Protestants. Protestant services must not be attended in order for the Catholic to experience “feelings” of fellowship or closeness to God."

If the Pope is not good enough for you then lets go to Christ Himself, surely you will listen to Him.

“And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.” Matthew 18:17

 

[ac_claire]

Why would we receive instruction on how to act at their worship if we are not to attend their worship?
cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=225

It appear to me that Fr. Serpa is addressing communion at a non-catholic worship.

apparently I am not the only one
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=229138

btw today at Mass the Priest talked about the importance of unity.

“Unity” is not the issue you’re grappling with; it’s not the issue you opened this thread to discuss.

I’m going to repeat what I told you earlier: It’s not good for us to focus on doing what is, under certain limited circumstances, “permitted.” Instead we should try to do what pleases God the most and what is the best for us…This goes for everyone but it goes 200% for someone like you who is struggling with a spiritual weakness. In my opinion, you’re playing with fire.

It seems to me, lookaround, that you opened this thread expressing some uncertainty about what you’re doing, but your posts since then don’t show any uncertaintly. You clearly want to do what you want to do and you seem to be disregarding the very prudent advice you’ve been given. No matter what any of us say, or show you documented in the Church’s teaching…you, obviously, know better.

I say this with love…I think you’re blinded by either pride or foolishness, not sure which. I pray that you sort yourself out before it’s too late.