Stop giving sacraments of initiation to the unaware

[goout]

Some groundwork:
I live in the US.
We have infant Baptism, First Communion at about 8 years, and Confirmation at about 13.
Concurrently, catholic families and schools are failing to raise Christian disciples. In ever increasing numbers, the souls receiving these sacraments are not “opening the gift” and are wandering off into a life of indifferentism.

Sherry Weddell’s “Forming Intentional Disciples” book comes to mind. The book observes the problem, but doesn’t really see a practical way forward. The way forward is difficult. It should be difficult.
At the same time we decry the lack of intentional Christian discipleship, we don’t ask those coming to the sacraments to make any intentional decision for Christ.
You can’t have it both ways. Either we do something to bring about intentional living, or intentional discipleship is just a feel-good phrase.

Receiving the source and summit of the Christian life (Eucharist) should coincide with some decisiveness on the part of the receiver. The Church here has closed this door to decisiveness by keeping these sacraments in the context of a nice dress, a party, and pictures to be thrown into an album. ““And let me warm up my SUV so my child can get in and go.””

This might have worked when the culture supported Christian values. If we look around, the culture has abandoned Christianity. **The way we are doing things as catechists and schools is not working. **

And a working definition of insanity is to do the same ineffective thing over and over.
Stop the merry go round.
The Church needs to start seeing mature commitment before administering sacraments of initiation.

1231 Where infant Baptism has become the form in which this sacrament is usually celebrated, it has become a single act encapsulating the preparatory stages of Christian initiation in a very abridged way. By its very nature infant Baptism requires a post-baptismal catechumenate. Not only is there a need for instruction after Baptism, but also for the necessary flowering of baptismal grace in personal growth. The catechism has its proper place here.

We (as the US Church) are failing absolutely miserably at this. There is no excuse.

 

[WilliamE]

This might have worked when the culture supported Christian values. If we look around, the culture has abandoned Christianity.

People change. Cultures evolve. There’s really not much to be done about it. I predict that in just a few generations a vast majority of people will not practice a religion. Those who do will likely practice Islam. The world will be a very different place.

 

[goout]

People change. Cultures evolve. There’s really not much to be done about it. I predict that in just a few generations a vast majority of people will not practice a religion. Those who do will likely practice Islam. The world will be a very different place.

I don’t see capitulation as an option for a Christian.
The idea isn’t for the Church to merely “command the numbers” vs other religions.
We need to do the right thing for those under our care and those seeking our care.

An analogy:
My daughter has diverticulitis along with some other digestive conditions. Much of it is her own doing. Her doctor put her on a program. At her first checkup she told her doctor she was not really bought in to the program and was still eating Cheetos.
Her doctor told her they should not pretend they were doing something they were not doing.
Whatever help the doctor was going to provide required my daughter’s commitment, or the treatment was a pretense.

I like that analogy, as the Pope has characterized the Church as a field hospital for the sick. The patient needs to participate.

 

[Brendan]

I disagree. Not only am I highly in favor of infant Baptism, I would like to see Confirmation moved to just prior to First Holy Communion ( 7-8 years old)

It is precisely BECAUSE our society is so anti-Christian that I see the need for our children to grow up having the Grace of the Sacraments.

To do what you describe would be like expecting soldiers to show how they can survive on a battlefield, and THEN give them their helmet, rations and weapons.

 

[mikeeh]

Confirmation should be received right before First Communion when the person is seven. Ideally at the same Mass so the bishop is present for both Confirmation and First Communion. Not that the bishop is required to attend a First Communion for it to be valid, but it would be a great experience for the bishop to be present on such an important moment in the person’s life. If you want the children to learn about the faith you need to educate the parents. Parents should be required to attend classes on faith formation and raising children in the faith. Children are great at memorizing everything, but not fully understanding the faith. The parents would be taught how to shape what the children memorize into a strong faith as they mature.

 

[goout]

I disagree. Not only am I highly in favor of infant Baptism, I would like to see Confirmation moved to just prior to First Holy Communion ( 7-8 years old)

It is precisely BECAUSE our society is so anti-Christian that I see the need for our children to grow up having the Grace of the Sacraments.

To do what you describe would be like expecting soldiers to show how they can survive on a battlefield, and THEN give them their helmet, rations and weapons.

The sacraments are not a magic pill leading to sanctity. The are the gateway to the depths of grace. Depth. Depths require some plumbing or they remain uncovered.

How do you address these?:

III. HOW IS THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM CELEBRATED?

Christian Initiation

1229 From the time of the apostles, becoming a Christian has been accomplished by a journey and initiation in several stages. This journey can be covered rapidly or slowly, but certain essential elements will always have to be present: proclamation of the Word, acceptance of the Gospel entailing conversion, profession of faith, Baptism itself, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and admission to Eucharistic communion.
1230 This initiation has varied greatly through the centuries according to circumstances. In the first centuries of the Church, Christian initiation saw considerable development. A long period of catechumenate included a series of preparatory rites, which were liturgical landmarks along the path of catechumenal preparation and culminated in the celebration of the sacraments of Christian initiation.

1231 Where infant Baptism has become the form in which this sacrament is usually celebrated, it has become a single act encapsulating the preparatory stages of Christian initiation in a very abridged way. By its very nature infant Baptism requires a post-baptismal catechumenate. Not only is there a need for instruction after Baptism, but also for the necessary flowering of baptismal grace in personal growth. The catechism has its proper place here.

How can an unaware person make a profession of faith?
The CCC goes on to detail the stages that a committed RCIA adult must take to embrace the sacraments of initiation in 1232 and 1233.
So, the Church already knows that discernment and decision is the way, yet we have an antiquated discipline that seeks to “crop dust” our young with the sacraments, and send them into families and a culture that do nothing to reinforce the faith. We are no longer living in 19th century Europe. The sacraments are not bearing fruit in our families, schools and Churches (speaking statistically…).

 

[RPRPsych]

To be against infant Baptism, to a traditional Catholic, is repugnant and akin to spiritual abortion. It cannot be condemned in strong enough terms.

 

[Wesrock]

We absolutely need better formation, and those who have reached the age of reason should be catechised before receiving the sacraments of initiation, but there’s absolutely no justification to putting the sacraments behind a “works-wall”. Infant baptism is proper. So are infant confirmation and infant communion in the Churches that keep these traditions. Confirmation is not about making a reasoned commitment to the faith (that should be necessary for adult converts in all cases, but that’s not what the sacrament is). Confirmation is about strengthening the gift of the Holy Spirit within the individual. It’s not a coming of age ceremony. Communion at age 7 or 8 is not a coming of age moment either, but a limit meant to prevent further delay of the sacraments beyond the age of innocence.

The sacraments should never be used as a type of graduation or marker of the end of formation, though. If anything’s gone wrong, it seems to be that.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I wonder if post communion/confirmation courses would help. I don’t think we always know what to do with post confirmation teens these days to be honest.

 

[Wesrock]

Churches need to do better and offer more assistance in catechesis, but ultimately the family needs to be a Church at home. This needs to be encouraged and man and woman involved in making their homes family churches. But delaying the sacraments of initiation for the reasons stipulated does not seem sound to me. It won’t help families live the faith.

 

[Jean_Stanton]

In our parish parents and children are required to attend classes and retreats before they are admitted to the sacraments. Parents are the first educators of their children. Perhaps, it is not the children who need instruction, but parents.

 

[goout]

We absolutely need better formation, and those who have reached the age of reason should be catechised before receiving the sacraments of initiation, but there’s absolutely no justification to putting the sacraments behind a “works-wall”. Infant baptism is proper.

I’m not saying that infant baptism is “improper”, but prudential judgment comes into play.
And I’m not talking about a works wall, I’m talking about proper disposition. This concept is not at all strange to participation in the sacraments.

So are infant confirmation and infant communion in the Churches that keep these traditions.

We should respect tradition, and not make it Tradition. tradition and disciplines change prudentially.

Confirmation is not about making a reasoned commitment to the faith (that should be necessary for adult converts in all cases, but that’s not what the sacrament is).

That is very debatable per the CCC.

Confirmation is about strengthening the gift of the Holy Spirit within the individual. It’s not a coming of age ceremony. Communion at age 7 or 8 is not a coming of age moment either, but a limit meant to prevent further delay of the sacraments beyond the age of innocence.

Age of innocence is a vague concept. I get that children have an innocence that might not be present due to more grave adult sins, but, that’s the whole point of the Christian walk…the restoration of innocent life. The renewal of the person in Christ. *There are no age limitations on grace. * I’m not talking about delay again, but proper disposition.

The sacraments should never be used as a type of graduation or marker of the end of formation, though. If anything’s gone wrong, it seems to be that.

That’s not my point for sacraments to be a graduation prize. The point is for them to be a decision point and conversion point, a point of commitment. **The sacraments should be desired, especially Eucharist and Confirmation. ** We simply do not have that, on average.

What the sacraments are not is a magic potion for the comfortable and uncommitted Catholic parent, for an unaware child. We are in an endless cycle of indifferentism, as one generation after the next takes grace with casual presumption. It has to stop, it borders on superstition.

 

[Bookcat]

In the current culture so many Christians have not heard well the Gospel…

The Church continues to promote the* new evangelization.*

A call for us all to live.

 

[goout]

Just speaking for my parish, I believe the best way to rejuvenate sacrament prep and disposition is to take sacrament prep out of the hands of the school.

If you look at the statistics at our school, only about 20% of our families are practicing Catholic. The school has become a privileged refuge from public education. Honestly, if it were not expected of them as part of the “curriculum”, not many would participate. The same 20% are the only ones who bother to bring their children to receive first Communion bibles at Mass, and will be the same 20% who continue on. And so, maybe the others should not be participating if the disposition and intent are not present. If the desire and disposition for the sacraments is there, call the parish. One thing we have been discussing is an RCIA type program that includes all those inquiring for the sacraments, age appropriately of course.

In the present cultural climate, a decision should be encouraged and an intentional choice made to participate in the sacraments.
Otherwise the cycle of trivialized sacramental participation continues.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

In our parish parents and children are required to attend classes and retreats before they are admitted to the sacraments. Parents are the first educators of their children. Perhaps, it is not the children who need instruction, but parents.

Kids these days tend to be dependent on a parent to take them to these classes unlike in the past when kids were more likely to be allowed to walk places by themselves. A lot of parents are too busy for this . I remember when Sunday school wanted the kids to stay half a hour after mass to rehearse a song and they begrudged that.

 

[PJM]

Some groundwork:
I live in the US.
We have infant Baptism, First Communion at about 8 years, and Confirmation at about 13.
Concurrently, catholic families and schools are failing to raise Christian disciples. In ever increasing numbers, the souls receiving these sacraments are not “opening the gift” and are wandering off into a life of indifferentism.

Sherry Weddell’s “Forming Intentional Disciples” book comes to mind. The book observes the problem, but doesn’t really see a practical way forward. The way forward is difficult. It should be difficult.
At the same time we decry the lack of intentional Christian discipleship, we don’t ask those coming to the sacraments to make any intentional decision for Christ.
You can’t have it both ways. Either we do something to bring about intentional living, or intentional discipleship is just a feel-good phrase.

Receiving the source and summit of the Christian life (Eucharist) should coincide with some decisiveness on the part of the receiver. The Church here has closed this door to decisiveness by keeping these sacraments in the context of a nice dress, a party, and pictures to be thrown into an album. ““And let me warm up my SUV so my child can get in and go.””

This might have worked when the culture supported Christian values. If we look around, the culture has abandoned Christianity. **The way we are doing things as catechists and schools is not working. **

And a working definition of insanity is to do the same ineffective thing over and over.
Stop the merry go round.
The Church needs to start seeing mature commitment before administering sacraments of initiation.

We (as the US Church) are failing absolutely miserably at this. There is no excuse.

Thank you for sharing this

While THERE IS no excuse, IMO, we are much more Christ like in looking for "REASON"S, not excuses.

Here is what I [ME here] think you may be missing?

GRACE is a GIFT from God; offered in some for and to varying degrees to ALL, and rejected by MANY [but NOT all]

Having been on CAF for many years now, I am aware that MANY have later returned to the Catholic Faith, after a period of wandering. THIS is evidence that Grace once accepted [even if it was by the parents and God-parents on behalf of an infant; STILL are retained and STILL are effective.

While it is indisputable that catechesis has [with GREAT degrees of variance], been substandard especially in the post Vatican II years; it is nevertheless improving in leaps and bounds:thumbsup:

However, while “the Church” bears this burden and this responsibility; THAT is only a part of the problem:

FROM our catechism:
2223 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues. This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the “material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones.” Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children. By knowing how to acknowledge their own failings to their children, parents will be better able to guide and correct them:

He who loves his son will not spare the rod. . . . He who disciplines his son will profit by him. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." End Quote

This then highlights the REAL issue, the foundational problem. WHEN is the last time you heard it preached at Mass? …

Not often enough for sure [IMO] BUT I am greatly impressed with the advent of small church groups; bible studies, programs parish supported like “FORMED” and many others, and the truly evident effort by The Church to correct past inefficiencies.

It seems to {ME again], that if one is NOT a part of the solution; then one IS part of the problem

Let us pray, buts let US also be active in our our evangelazation efforts, which begin at HOME:thumbsup:

GBY

 

[goout]

To be against infant Baptism, to a traditional Catholic, is repugnant and akin to spiritual abortion. It cannot be condemned in strong enough terms.

I’m not “against” infant baptism.

 

[goout]

In our parish parents and children are required to attend classes and retreats before they are admitted to the sacraments. Parents are the first educators of their children. Perhaps, it is not the children who need instruction, but parents.

Yes, this.
We have parents who “got the sacraments and have the pictures to prove it” taking their kids to “get the sacraments…”, cause well, all the second graders are doing it.
And coupled with a culture that does not support the faith, we have trivialized sacramental participation by parents passing it along to children who are unaware of what they are doing.
Again, if we were living in 19th century Europe this might not be a glaring problem.
We are not living in 19th century Catholic Europe, we are living in secularist mission territory.

 

[Catherinabird]

There are those whose parents took them out of tradition, but who did not receive any other guidance at home, and who could not be said to have truly understood the sacrament; yet these “unaware” youth are very grateful as adults, or even as youth while they forge their own way learning what they can.

I think it is a terrible idea to force parents to take classes as a prerequisite. Many would simply break tradition and their child would not receive the sacraments at all.

 

[goout]

There are those whose parents took them out of tradition, but who did not receive any other guidance at home, and who could not be said to have truly understood the sacrament; yet these “unaware” youth are very grateful as adults, or even as youth while they forge their own way learning what they can.

I think it is a terrible idea to force parents to take classes as a prerequisite. Many would simply break tradition and their child would not receive the sacraments at all.

I agree it would not be good to force parents to take classes as a prerequisite. Not advocating that. There should be a desire and disposition to receive the sacraments. Simply inquiring about sacraments is indicative a parent or person desires a sacrament. We don’t even let *that *minimum happen.
Worse than requiring classes might be the current situation in which sacraments are another thoughtless stepping stone to a nice private education.