Stop praying to feel God's presence

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Roseeurekacross said:
And again, the way of contemplative prayer is stillness, silence, listening to God.
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Here you give the correct terms. All that you have mentionned (silence, listening to God, et even meditation) are some possible way that one may use to achieve contemplation, but not the contemplation itself. That said, it is possible for someone to reach to contemplation without using one of these paths.
 
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Rejoice always, Pray without ceasing… 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

Great time to go on a Silent retreat. I love the Ignatian retreats at the Montserrat. God’s peace and presence is so amazing. Thanks be to God.

A book recommendation to read is God’s Voice Within.

Maybe you could provide the suggestions that have helped others as an alternative resource to people in that situation.

God bless!
 
Right we are talking of contemplative prayer. As in my very first post.
Roseeurekacross said:
Sounds like early contemplative Prayer. Just listen to God.
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It might take years to achieve the contemplative state.

However to achieve that state two things are required
  1. The doing, the prayer
  2. The grace of God. Why.? Because we cannot achieve this on our own, it must be a gift from God.
Do not confuse meditative Prayer with contemplative prayer. They are not the same.
 
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Roseeurekacross said:
It might take years to achieve the contemplative state
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the contemplative state refers to a religious state where the main activity is contemplative prayer. And the contemplative prayer reaches its goal in the “vision” of God
 
Now you are understanding me. And we cannot reach it ourselves. It is a gift from God. But we can practice contemplative prayer.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
Do not confuse meditative Prayer with contemplative prayer. They are not the same.
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i can’t confuse them. The meditative prayer can be a way ti reach a contemplation. The last link that i’ve given you explain it very well.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
Now you are understanding me. And we cannot reach it ourselves. It is a gift from God. But we can practice contemplative prayer.
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You are confuse. God give that gifts for those who seek them. And we find the contemplation (that’s that gift of God) in the contemplation prayer. The finality of contemplation prayer is to “see” God.
 
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2709 What is contemplative prayer? St. Teresa answers Contemplative prayer in my opinion is nothing else than a close sharing between friends; it means taking time frequently to be alone with him who we know loves us."6 Contemplative prayer seeks him "whom my soul loves."7 It is Jesus, and in him, the Father. We seek him, because to desire him is always the beginning of love, and we seek him in that pure faith which causes us to be born of him and to live in him. In this inner prayer we can still meditate, but our attention is fixed on the Lord himself

2710 The choice of the time and duration of the prayer arises from a determined will, revealing the secrets of the heart. One does not undertake contemplative prayer only when one has the time: one makes time for the Lord, with the firm determination not to give up, no matter what trials and dryness one may encounter. One cannot always meditate, but one can always enter into inner prayer, independently of the conditions of health, work, or emotional state The heart is the place of this quest and encounter, in poverty ant in faith

2711 Entering into contemplative prayer is like entering into the Eucharistic liturgy: we “gather up:” the heart, recollect our whole being under the prompting of the Holy Spirit, abide in the dwelling place of the Lord which we are, awaken our faith in order to enter into the presence of him who awaits us. We let our masks fall and turn our hearts back to the Lord who loves us, so as to hand ourselves over to him as an offering to be purified and transformed

2712 Contemplative prayer is the prayer of the child of God, of the forgiven sinner who agrees to welcome the love by which he is loved and who wants to respond to it by loving even more.8 But he knows that the love he is returning is poured out by the Spirit in his heart, for everything is grace from God. Contemplative prayer is the poor and humble surrender to the loving will of the Father in ever deeper union with his beloved Son

2713 Contemplative prayer is the simplest expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gift, a grace; it can be accepted only in humility and poverty. Contemplative prayer is a covenant relationship established by God within our hearts.9 Contemplative prayer is a communion in which the Holy Trinity conforms man, the image of God, "to his likeness

2714 Contemplative prayer is also the pre-eminently intense time of prayer. In it the Father strengthens our inner being with power through his Spirit “that Christ may dwell in [our] hearts through faith” and we may be "grounded in love

2715 Contemplation is a gaze of faith, fixed on Jesus. “I look at him and he looks at me”: this is what a certain peasant of Ars in the time of his holy curé used to say while praying before the tabernacle. This focus on Jesus is a renunciation of self. His gaze purifies our heart; the light of the countenance of Jesus illumines the eyes of our heart and teaches us to see everything in the light of his truth and his compassion for all men. Contemplation also turns its gaze on the mysteries of the life of Christ. Thus it learns the “interior knowledge of our Lord,” the more to love him and follow him.11
 
2716 Contemplative prayer is hearing the Word of God. Far from being passive, such attentiveness is the obedience of faith, the unconditional acceptance of a servant, and the loving commitment of a child. It participates in the “Yes” of the Son become servant and the Fiat of God’s lowly handmaid.

2717 Contemplative prayer is silence, the "symbol of the world to come"12 or "silent love."13 Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the “outer” man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.

2718 Contemplative prayer is a union with the prayer of Christ insofar as it makes us participate in his mystery. The mystery of Christ is celebrated by the Church in the Eucharist, and the Holy Spirit makes it come alive in contemplative prayer so that our charity will manifest it in our acts.

2719 Contemplative prayer is a communion of love bearing Life for the multitude, to the extent that it consents to abide in the night of faith. The Paschal night of the Resurrection passes through the night of the agony and the tomb - the three intense moments of the Hour of Jesus which his Spirit (and not “the flesh [which] is weak”) brings to life in prayer. We must be willing to "keep watch with [him] one hour."14

This is the catechism. Could we agree on it . From

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c3a1.htm

There is also vocal prayer and meditative prayer there in that catechism too.
 
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i know theses defintions of the CEC, but that’s not exactly what you quoted there. Here is what is written in my CCC (translate from french) Just a piece of text to see the difference:
2715 Contemplation is a look of faith, fixed on Jesus. “I warn Him and He warns me”, said, at
the time of his holy priest, the peasant of Ars praying before the Tabernacle (see F. Trochu, The priest
Ars Saint Jean Marie Vianney, p. 223-224). This attention to Him is giving up
" me ". His gaze purifies the heart. The light of Jesus’ gaze illuminates the eyes of our
heart; it teaches us to see everything in the light of its truth and compassion for all
men. Contemplation also focuses on the mysteries of the life of Christ. She
learns “the inner knowledge of the Lord” to love and follow Him more
(see S. Ignatius, ex-Spir. 104).
2716 Oration is listening to the Word of God. Far from being passive, this listening is
the obedience of faith, the unconditional acceptance of the servant and the loving adherence of the child. She
participates in the “yes” of the Son become Servant and the “fiat” of his humble servant.
2717 Oration is silence, this “symbol of the world that comes” (S. Isaac of Nineveh, tract.
66) or “silent love” (St. John of the Cross). The words in prayer are not
speech but twigs that fuel the fire of love. It’s in this silence,
unbearable to the “external” man, that the Father tells us his Word incarnate, suffering, dead
and risen, and that the filial Spirit makes us participate in the prayer of Jesus
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Then there many remarks:
  • In the definitions you have given, you have replaced “Oration” with “contemplative”.
  • the CCC has defined what contemplation is (see the definition that I have puting in bold) and it says that it is a look of faith fixed on Jesus, so to contemplate is to “see” Jesus, “see” God
 
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The link I gave is a vatican link. I haven’t changed words around in it, or swapped words. I cut n pasted the contemplative prayer section in two posts because it wouldn’t fit in one.

So if you click the link and read 2715
You read “”2715 Contemplation is a gaze of faith, fixed on Jesus. “I look at him and he looks at me”:”
Then if you click the link and read 2716 and 2717 , you will read
2716 Contemplative prayer is hearing the Word of God
2717 Contemplative prayer is silence, the "symbol of the world to come"12 or "silent love.

I cannot change a vatican document. I don’t work in their documents office.
Yes 2715 defines contemplation, as does many of those points.
However 2716 defines contemplative prayer.

Again, I cannot change the words of the document. Click the link and have a look.

Can we agree that the Vatican has defined contemplation and contemplative prayer and we are both echoing the words of the Holy See.
 
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The text i’ve quoted is a vatican document expressed in french language
 
Then the difference must be in translating Italian to English and Italian to French. Is there a date on yours? I gather the Vatican link is a current document as it’s on their website.

So gaze and look mean basically the same thing. We look at or gaze at

Oration has got me stumped though. In English it’s a formal speech or style and manner.
Perhaps oration is the doing word or term ?

Warn instead of look is another, but I am no linguist. Do you guys use warn instead of look? In French

Did you perhaps use bablefish to translate that sample from French into English? That might explain the use of ‘warn’
 
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Google translation…But it’s a robot it make some mistakes many time…
 
We have learnt something. I thank you.

Are you in France
 
My part of the world is getting lots of African immigrants, some great people. And bringing food and music which is so different. Such a blessing.

And you guys can play footy!
 
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This is may primary form of prayer. All the other images and words don’t do much for me. I believe that God is with me, all around me. How should I not feel God’s presence? When I close my eyes, that is what God chooses to present to my senses. God is behind that darkness. A person is behind that darkness and all around me all the time. I let myself get grounded in that person, that presence. I highly recommend it.
 
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