Stop shooting the messenger!

[gracepoole]

Tis_Bearself:

Lifesite and Michael Voris need to write better articles. It’s pretty obvious that Voris completely loses his kimchee whenever any gay person is involved. He frankly seems irrational on the subject.

I haven’t noticed Taylor Marshall and OnePeterFive getting a lot of criticism. I find some of their posts to be quite helpful, and I’m a moderate, not a traditionalist. OnePeterFive recently wrote a very thoughtful piece on Jonathan Morris’ departure from the priesthood, which I posted here and nobody bashed it. And I was just reading Taylor Marshall’s post today on how to get yourself in the habit of praying LOTH.

With regards to Voris. He is probably pretty sensitive to gay issues. Since he was in homosexual relationships in his 30s and “came out” when he claims the Archdiocese of NY was going to “out” him.
Something I find believable given how damaging the information was to his cause. I think after recent revelations about homosexuals in the Church we might want to give him a little slack for his admittedly over the top reactions.

The problem in this case is that Voris sounds rabid when he speaks of homosexuality. Then he incites others to become rabid, as well. That’s not useful, in my opinion, for changing the culture.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I appreciate that he had a past homosexual lifestyle which he has now completely disavowed.

However, that also means he’s not exactly an unbiased observer/ reporter on the subject. It definitely affects his coverage and his attitude towards stories because he seems to have a major agenda of painting homosexuality as the root of all evil including within the Church. I realize this is a popular view, but it is not objective and also ignores or minimizes all of the other roots of evil within the Church, including pride, greed, and heterosexual abuse.

 

[Aquinas11]

How is ANY of this even REMOTELY Christlike?

You’re confusing

(1) Coffin, who I never made an assertion about, with

(2) Standards of behavior, which I did discuss (e.g. extreme, radical, fringe, taken seriously, strike chord with large audience)

If I’m wrong, quote me the assertion I made about Coffin and we can discuss it, but please don’t misrepresent what I said.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t see anybody misbehaving in the thread, and really not interested in having a prolonged discussion with you on it, as I think I’ve posted enough times in the thread to get my point across. I will now mute the thread as it seems to be turning into a place for people to wring their hands because their favorite fringey publication isn’t beloved enough by the CAF community. Have a nice day.

 

[Aquinas11]

I will now mute the thread as it seems to be turning into a place for people to wring their hands because their favorite fringey publication isn’t beloved enough by the CAF community. Have a nice day.

Not nice to mute the thread and drop a insult on the way out (“their favorite fringey publication”),

 

[IdaCatholic]

What you call bias can also just be a very unique point of view that we dont have experience with that he does. As far as struggling with the morality of homosexuality and how the Church handles this he may be biased. He may also be an expert on the subject.

 

[EricF]

Really the only thing any of us can do with any success at all is try to be a better Catholic than we were yesterday. Mr. Coffin was once very helpful to me in that regard. Now he isn’t.

 

[Crusader13]

I will now mute the thread as it seems to be turning into a place for people to wring their hands because their favorite fringey publication isn’t beloved enough by the CAF community. Have a nice day.

Unfortunately this is par the course in discussions such as these. The video and my opening comments weren’t even about defending the view that someone needs to watch or listen to these media outlets. In fact Patrick Coffin doesn’t even mention Voris or Lifesite until nearly the end of the video and its only in passing. Lol.

It was about how often times individuals or entities are attacked based upon nothing more then having the audacity to report that a scandal or corrupt action even took place.

 

[Crusader13]

I’m going to gently suggest that you might be a bit too emotionally invested here.

I’ve given specific reasons for faithful Catholics to ignore Coffin, et al. Coffin’s claim that folks who criticize him are only “shooting the messenger” is hollow because he never accepts criticism (seriously: head to Twitter and try criticizing anything he shares – even if done kindly, he can’t handle it). Are there problems in the Church? Undoubtedly. That’s been the history of the Church since it began. No one needs a messenger to reveal what the Church is and always has been.

I respectfully disagree. I’m not getting defensive or emotional. I’m merely trying to defend my position on the reason for posting the video, which has nothing to do with trying to convince anyone that they need to listen to or accept the media outlets that I mentioned.

There are problems in the church of course, but to what extent and how bad? I assure you, very few, if anyone knew how bad the sexual abuse scandal was until people started to dig and ask questions. By your logic, we should all just accept that evil exists within the Church and ignore a need to expose it.

Also there is a difference between not accepting criticism and defending your position.

 

[gracepoole]

Tis_Bearself:

I will now mute the thread as it seems to be turning into a place for people to wring their hands because their favorite fringey publication isn’t beloved enough by the CAF community. Have a nice day.

Unfortunately this is par the course in discussions such as these. The video and my opening comments weren’t even about defending the view that someone needs to watch or listen to these media outlets. In fact Patrick Coffin doesn’t even mention Voris or Lifesite until nearly the end of the video and its only in passing. Lol.

It was about how often times individuals or entities are attacked based upon nothing more then having the audacity to report that a scandal or corrupt action even took place.

They’re being criticized because they’re making a living off of “reporting” on the scandal. That’s a scandal. No one cares about shooting the messenger — they care about the reach that professional Catholics have when falsely charging the Holy Father with heresy.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

My great issue is that in terms of catechising the young and the discerning catechumens, teachers have cited faith in the authority of the Magisterium. These characters are now blowing that to smithereens by promoting pick and choose or rather listen to them over the Pope. They are a nightmare and scourge on the seeds of faith that we obedient Catholics are trying to nurture.

I find your comment to be completely untrue and a gross misrepresentation of what they say. In fact your comment has me wondering if you’ve even listened to any of them.

You would actually label them a nightmare and a scourge on the seeds of faith, for exposing those clergy who’ve abused and corrupted those same seeds of faith?!?!?!

They are all of the mentality that Pope Francis is in error in many of his teachings and that people are entitled to reject his authority to teach it. That undermines the obligation to listen to any papal teachings. Humanae vitae for example. Better a millstone be tied around their necks than they encourage anyone to do that.

 

[Crusader13]

They are all of the mentality that Pope Francis is in error in many of his teachings and that people are entitled to reject his authority to teach it. That undermines the obligation to listen to any papal teachings. Humanae vitae for example.

I’m sorry, but I don’t find anything you said to be accurate or even close to what they are saying. Do many of them disagree with Pope Francis on statements that the holy father has made and even with certain aspects of his encyclicals? Absolutely, but seeking clarification with regards to questionable views, isn’t seeking to undermine his authority.

I’ve never once heard them say that we need to reject the Pope’s authority to teach or author encyclicals.

 

[ontheway1]

The real problem some folks here are having is that Voris and others are pointing fingers at some of the more “woke” members of the church. It just so happens that these “woke” bishops often find themselved embroiled in scandals.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Unfortunately this is par the course in discussions such as these. The video and my opening comments weren’t even about defending the view that someone needs to watch or listen to these media outlets. In fact Patrick Coffin doesn’t even mention Voris or Lifesite until nearly the end of the video and its only in passing. Lol.

It was about how often times individuals or entities are attacked based upon nothing more then having the audacity to report that a scandal or corrupt action even took place.

That’s because no one cares about the video but your opening post. Anyways no one cares about reporting a scandal, it’s just that some of the sites you mention do it all the time and there is little to no benefit. If there is I would be glad to hear.

 

[EricF]

Maybe I’m reading this all wrong, but there doesn’t seem to be a correct answer to the original post. It almost seems like someone is itching for a fight. I’ll pass thanks.

 

[Beryllos]

and whether or not they are reputable because someone doesn’t like their past article on communion in the hand!

Thanks for mentioning it. While the LifeSiteNews article I earlier cited seems to revolve around Communion in the hand, my objection to it was the lie which LifeSiteNews created and attributed to Cardinal Sarah as their attention-grabbing headline. By cutting and pasting phrases from Cardinal Sarah’s essay, they created a statement more to their liking and said he made it. Was it a deliberate lie, or are they just poor writers?

 

[phil19034]

A good Catholic believes God guides the choice of a Pope

Hello @Tis_Bearself - I just want to comment on this one thing you said.

The above quote is not technically Catholic belief. Yes, I know a lot of Catholics think this, but it actually not what the Church teaches.

The Church does not teach that God guides the choice of a Pope. The Holy Spirit does not pick the Pope nor directly influences the Cardinals. Now, of course, faithful Cardinals will pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, however, the Cardinals do have free will and can choose not to corporate with Holy Spirit when voting. Plus, there is no guarantee that all Cardinals will recognize/hear the voice of the Holy Spirit when praying. There is also no guarantee that all Cardinals will be in a state of Grace when voting either.

The only thing God does is He protects the Church against the Pope dogmatically teaching heresy (error) in regards to faith and morals (even if God must take the Pope’s life in order to do so).

Therefore, the Cardinals are not protected from picking bad Popes. For example, I think we would very hard pressed to find someone who would say God wanted the Cardinals to elect Pope Alexander VI (the Borgia Pope).

NOTE: I am NOT implying anything about any Pope elected in the 20th or 21st centuries. I want to make that 100% clear. It is NOT my intention to do so if anyone thinks I am.

 

[phil19034]

They are all of the mentality that Pope Francis is in error in many of his teachings and that people are entitled to reject his authority to teach it. That undermines the obligation to listen to any papal teachings. Humanae vitae for example. Better a millstone be tied around their necks than they encourage anyone to do that.

I’m sorry, but this is not a fair statement.

Humanae vitae was CONSISTENT with 1900 years of Catholic teaching regarding birth control. The Catholics who dissented & still dissent to Humanae Vitae were/are ignoring Catholic Sacred Tradition & theology in order to accept a new form of birth control.

The issue that some people have with Pope Francis is that he has been vague in certain areas, and when asked for clarification, he has either not responded or responded indirectly.

I have watched a number of videos from people like Patrick Coffin, Dr. Taylor Marshall, and even people who work for archdioceses around the US. They all stop short and clearly say they are not charging the Pope with heresy. They simply would like him to answer their questions.

NOTE: That doesn’t mean that people like Patrick Coffin, Dr. Marshall, etc are not frustrated and let their frustration come across sometimes. But they are NOT teaching heresy or promoting schism. It also doesn’t mean there are not sometimes people interviewed on Church Militant, etc who are overly negative and unproductive, because they are. But just because someone is being a jerk or is extremely jaded doesn’t always mean they are automatically lying.

God bless

 

[CTBcin]

Nearly every article, video or story that is shared on this forum that is from Lifesite News, Church Militant/Michael Voris, Taylor Marshall, One Peter Five, so and so forth, is almost always dismissed or criticized.

It’s one thing to simply be a messenger. It’s another thing to distort the facts and push an agenda.

 

[blackforest]

By cutting and pasting phrases from Cardinal Sarah’s essay, they created a statement more to their liking and said he made it. Was it a deliberate lie, or are they just poor writers?

It was to provoke and inflame. Which is what they do.

Buried in my much-too-long post upthread, I stated that one test of a solid, reliable source is whether it is worded to provoke thoughtful discussion or visceral outrage. LifeNews failed my test years ago.