Stopping the Gospel to Sing

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backprop

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Hello,

I have a question that seems to have been asked before several times. But I have not seen it specifically addressed as the ensuing discussion usually centers on the way the gospel is read.

My parish has for several years interrupted the Passion gospel and inserted hymns at various points (“Were you there?” at the time of Jesus’ death, “Who do you say that I am” - I don’t recognize the hymn - at the denial, and so on). Never mind that they’re at some of the most raw, emotional parts of the gospel; I’m wondering if this is an abuse or if this is just something I have to accept. I’ve approached the liturgical minister but she said she did not hear anything one way or the other and besides, people like it. I don’t know anyone who does, actually.

If this is not appropriate, is there something I can cite when I talk to the pastor? I can’t find anything in the GIRM.
 
If you’re looking for rubrics,there are none. However this is a very old tradition going way back. We stop at various points during the Passion and reflect in song or a musical interlude. If done well it brings attention to specific parts of the Gospel reading. It’s acceptable. I was at St Peters one Palm Sunday and it was done there. My only opposition to the practice is when the refrain or song that is chosen is banal and has nothing to do with the part that was just read. Ex…some will use “Jesus Remember Me” throughout.
 
Anna_Claire said:
It’s acceptable. I was at St Peters one Palm Sunday and it was done there.
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They were not inserting a hymn into the Passion reading, however, what was being sung was the people’s response in the Passion.
 
backprop said:
My parish has for several years interrupted the Passion gospel and inserted hymns at various points (“Were you there?” at the time of Jesus’ death, “Who do you say that I am” - I don’t recognize the hymn - at the denial, and so on). Never mind that they’re at some of the most raw, emotional parts of the gospel; I’m wondering if this is an abuse or if this is just something I have to accept. I’ve approached the liturgical minister but she said she did not hear anything one way or the other and besides, people like it. I don’t know anyone who does, actually.

If this is not appropriate, is there something I can cite when I talk to the pastor? I can’t find anything in the GIRM.
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Are you Canadian?

I ask that only because the Lectionary that was in effect in Canada until Pentecost 2009 had breaks in the Passion for hymns or acclamations. The new Lectionary doesn’t which, to me, means that it shouldn’t be done. Unfortunately, because he’d done it in other parishes with the old Lectionary, our former pastor opted to train the choir to do this only after the new Lectionary was promulgated. I’m hoping that now that he’s gone we’ll go back to the proper way.
 
backprop said:
I am not. That is interesting about the Lectionary though.
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I’ve read that some parishes in the US were illicitly using the old Canadian Lectionary, with its NRSV translation, rather than the official US Lectionary. Might that be the case? Or if you’re not in the US might your official Lectionary have those breaks in the Passion the way ours did?
 
Does it matter?
Clearly it does, I suppose (hence the post).
If it is such a matter of concern, you’d better report it to the Bishop.
 
marty1818 said:
ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur167.htm
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Thanks for the link! It is very helpful.

My local parish likes to add “drama” by adding an instrumental accompaniment to the reading of the passion. They only use about six instruments, and over the course of this long reading, the instruments just grow more and more annoying – perhaps they mean for it to be penitential?

So we’ll be attending Holy Week liturgies at the parish where my son goes to school.

Thanks again!

Gertie
 
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marty1818 said:
like in this?

youtube.com/watch?v=qyZo3SQOl5Q
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I only watched part of the video…very nice. However if you mean was the entire Passion chanted…that’s not what I mean. The mass I attended was not a chanted Passion, it was read (in Italian, inside St Peter’s) with musical interludes at specific points for reflection. (unfortunately my Italian is not too great…but when in Rome…)
Are you doubting me Marty?
 
Anna_Claire said:
I only watched part of the video…very nice. However if you mean was the entire Passion chanted…that’s not what I mean. The mass I attended was not a chanted Passion, it was read (in Italian, inside St Peter’s) with musical interludes at specific points for reflection. (unfortunately my Italian is not too great…but when in Rome…)
Are you doubting me Marty?
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The link to the EWTN site shows a response from Rome to the question which includes the following “it is also common practice in some places, notably St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome, to use a fourfold division of parts: Christ, narrator, other individuals, and the multitude. This latter role is carried out by the choir who sing phrases such as “Crucify him” in dramatic polyphony.” Could that be what you heard?

I know that the old Canadian Lectionary, along with its musical interludes during the Passion, had the Passion divided into 5 parts: Christ, Narrator, S1, S2 & S3 – S2 was meant to be done by the congregation. The new Lectionary has only Christ, Narrator and S and no congregational part. I’m very thankful for that since I like to listen to the Passion, not feel compelled to follow along until it’s my turn to jump in.

This year I’ve been asked to be the narrator for the Passion according to John on Good Friday.
 
I agree Phemie. I prefer to listen. On any Sunday I do not follow along with any proclamation. Unfortunately, at my parish we are encouraged to follow the Passion narrative in the missalettes and chime in with the crowd responses. Our pastor insists on it.
 
Phemie said:
The link to the EWTN site shows a response from Rome to the question which includes the following “it is also common practice in some places, notably St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome, to use a fourfold division of parts: Christ, narrator, other individuals, and the multitude. This latter role is carried out by the choir who sing phrases such as “Crucify him” in dramatic polyphony.”
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Thank you for mentioning this.

Anna Claire,
I’m not doubting that there were parts during the Passion that were sung, but I think it was more likely to be the parts of the people rather than hymns placed as an interlude. I think the parts of the people could easily be mistaken as a interlude unless someone knew Italian very well.
 
Marty…you are doubting me. Again…it was not the parts of the people. They were musical interludes…songs…hymns. Why can’t you accept that I know what I am talking about. Yikes!!
 
Anna_Claire said:
Marty…you are doubting me. Again…it was not the parts of the people. They were musical interludes…songs…hymns. Why can’t you accept that I know what I am talking about. Yikes!!
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Sorry about the doubting. Let me explain myself. Every Palm Sunday mass I have seen televised at St. Peter’s has no additional hymns or musical interludes added. The article I linked earlier ,ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur167.htm , stated “Other interventions of the choir — such as singing songs that do not form part of the Gospel text or that interrupt its reading — should be totally excluded from the celebration.” Upon reading this article and seeing your post where you said it was acceptable, I wanted to clarify that it was additional hymns and not a part of the Passion being sung. Based on what I read and what you experienced I was trying to figure out which was correct and am a bit confused about the matter at the moment. You stated earlier that this is a “old tradition going way back”, do you have any texts that support this or the position that this practice is acceptable? Anything that could help me understand is appreciated.
 
It’s probably not particularly fruitful to make a judgement based on how a Mass is conducted at St. Peter’s. First of all, pontifical Masses have lots of “extras” that would not be licit in a regular parish Mass - even on Palm Sunday. And secondly, the Pope is the ultimate liturgist. He can make any changes he wants to a Mass but that doesn’t mean that everyone else can. Unless there is something more recent allowing the insertion of hymns during the reading of the Passion, the document cited in the EWTN analysis seems to rule it out - at least for us in regular parish Masses.
 
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