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jmoneyideas
Guest
What I didn’t get was how the services took Hours, I mean Hours. We wouldn’t even read a ton of Scripture…It was a sermon based on a interpretation of on or 2 Vs in a reading and it went on and on…LOL
- Status
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pablope
Guest
This reminded me a conversion story…a couple asked themselves…is listening to a sermon for an hour or two…really worship?
So they searched and ended up in a Mass…and were floored by it. And the rest is…they are now Catholics.
J
jmoneyideas
Guest
Yes I tell you the Order of the Mass and the unity in the Church is one thing that really is awe inspiring. I am still trying to get my wifes friend to come to Midnight mass Christmas Eve. It will be my first Midnight Mass as well…
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pismopal
Guest
My former non denom preacher , who did not drink , said that he could not believe that Christ drank wine. I thought hmmmm…interesting theory. The Bible…which he claimed he read said that Christ drank wine along with the disciples. Christ was a Jew and wine was part of their religion as well as their daily diet…but this guy did not believe that Christ drank wine. This was the beginning of the end of my association with denoms who want a religion that will fit their lifestyle and preconceived opinions.
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Telstar
Guest
When I was a kid in the 60s, a lot of people used to complain that Mass was way too long. A Low Mass was what most people preferred to go to, which was usually over in less than an hour (1/2 hour if the Priest gave a very brief sermon, to 45 minutes if it was a longer one), but High Mass usually ran about 1 1/2 - 2 hours (High Mass had more detail in its structure and was more solemn). When I think about how many of those that complained about it, left to go to a Protestant church, I have to wonder, “why?”. I’m guessing it was more about the fact that most of the time spent at Mass (Latin) back then, was spent on their knees, so they opted to listen to a preacher talk for 2 hours, while they just sat in the pew, instead. God forbid they should have to get on their knees and pray.
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anodos
Guest
Yes, I have sat through many such sermons (and usually stayed awake, I am proud to say!)…I feel like I learned something, but its very wearing to spend 2.5 hours every week for 6 months and still be in the book of Hebrews.
Congratulations! Me too!
Today I remembered that my family went to a Reformed church for a while that was very focused on doctrinal teaching and sometimes went a little overboard. The 2nd and 3rd grade Sunday School (li’l sister’s class) was scary. The church as a whole was going through the book of Revelation, and the theme in the 2nd/3rd grade classroom was Judgement. There were paper trumpets and bowls hanging on strings from the ceiling, as well as other paraphenalia representing plagues etc. The classroom had massive windows along one wall, painted with flames full of naked people in distress. The teacher explained that the tortured people were in Hell forever because they didn’t accept Christ as savior. An 8 year old said, “I’m praying for my unsaved friends and family to be saved”, and the teacher said “You can’t pray for anyone to be saved, everyone is predestined to Heaven or to Hell. I’m sorry but there’s nothing we can do about that.”
At the time I thought, “I’m 14, I can handle that, but an 8 year old?”
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anodos
Guest
This is not an isolated opinion. I have heard several people suggest that the “wine” mentioned throughout scripture was really only grape juice. They have explained that it would have been customary to drink fresh-squeezed juice or, if it was fermented at all, it would have had very low alchohol content. I think they drank REAL wine, and I will not be ashamed of it (LOL), even though I don’t like it myself.My former non denom preacher , who did not drink , said that he could not believe that Christ drank wine. I thought hmmmm…interesting theory. The Bible…which he claimed he read said that Christ drank wine along with the disciples. Christ was a Jew and wine was part of their religion as well as their daily diet…but this guy did not believe that Christ drank wine. This was the beginning of the end of my association with denoms who want a religion that will fit their lifestyle and preconceived opinions.
I was SO disappointed when I finally became old enough to try a little wine…it was fetid!!! I had read all of those wonderful stories about Narnia and Middle Earth and I thought wine was supposed to be GOOD!
J
JustaServant
Guest
It would be interesting to find out what ever happened to that 8 year old…Today I remembered that my family went to a Reformed church for a while that was very focused on doctrinal teaching and sometimes went a little overboard. The 2nd and 3rd grade Sunday School (li’l sister’s class) was scary. The church as a whole was going through the book of Revelation, and the theme in the 2nd/3rd grade classroom was Judgement. There were paper trumpets and bowls hanging on strings from the ceiling, as well as other paraphenalia representing plagues etc. The classroom had massive windows along one wall, painted with flames full of naked people in distress. The teacher explained that the tortured people were in Hell forever because they didn’t accept Christ as savior. An 8 year old said, “I’m praying for my unsaved friends and family to be saved”, and the teacher said “You can’t pray for anyone to be saved, everyone is predestined to Heaven or to Hell. I’m sorry but there’s nothing we can do about that.”
At the time I thought, “I’m 14, I can handle that, but an 8 year old?”
J
jmoneyideas
Guest
Actually my ExPastor and I just got into a huge debate on Double predestination last week. You can find in the threads. This was a huge sticking point with us. At the time I never really understood about this Concept he was preaching.Today I remembered that my family went to a Reformed church for a while that was very focused on doctrinal teaching and sometimes went a little overboard. The 2nd and 3rd grade Sunday School (li’l sister’s class) was scary. The church as a whole was going through the book of Revelation, and the theme in the 2nd/3rd grade classroom was Judgement. There were paper trumpets and bowls hanging on strings from the ceiling, as well as other paraphenalia representing plagues etc. The classroom had massive windows along one wall, painted with flames full of naked people in distress. The teacher explained that the tortured people were in Hell forever because they didn’t accept Christ as savior. An 8 year old said, “I’m praying for my unsaved friends and family to be saved”, and the teacher said “You can’t pray for anyone to be saved, everyone is predestined to Heaven or to Hell. I’m sorry but there’s nothing we can do about that.”
At the time I thought, “I’m 14, I can handle that, but an 8 year old?”
I agree
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anodos
Guest
I don’t know…of the families that we knew in that church, a few are still there, though most have switched to other denominations, and I don’t remember which 8 year old it was. (Maybe li’l sister remembers.
)
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pismopal
Guest
The grape juice story has been passed around by many including LDS who simply cannot live with the idea that wine has been a part of man’s diet for thousands of years. The admonition in the Bible not to get drunk on wine is good advise and further evidence that wine was not non alcoholic…in fact grape juice preservation was invented by Welch at the turn of the century. Before that grape juice becomes wine and nothing could stop it…I might add fortunately. My friend if you find a wine that is “fetid” you may not be spending enough or the cork was bad. That happens once in awhile but in California…bad wine or bad corks is a rarety. Try it again and maybe start with a white wine…seems to be the beginner’s choice but red is where it is and you will get there soon enough.This is not an isolated opinion. I have heard several people suggest that the “wine” mentioned throughout scripture was really only grape juice. They have explained that it would have been customary to drink fresh-squeezed juice or, if it was fermented at all, it would have had very low alchohol content. I think they drank REAL wine, and I will not be ashamed of it (LOL), even though I don’t like it myself.
I was SO disappointed when I finally became old enough to try a little wine…it was fetid!!! I had read all of those wonderful stories about Narnia and Middle Earth and I thought wine was supposed to be GOOD!
P
PaulDupre
Guest
My uncle Paul (my mother’s brother for whom I am named) is a very well-known Southern Baptist minister and former president of a well-known Southern Baptist university (my mother was raised Southern Baptist and converted to Catholicism in her early 20s).
He spent 8 years doing research trying to write a book proving that Jesus and other 1st-century Jews drank unfermented grape juice and that the “wine” described in the New Testament was in fact unfermented grape juice. After 8 years he abandoned the project, forced to admit that Jesus and His disciples did in fact drink fermented wine.
Paul
He spent 8 years doing research trying to write a book proving that Jesus and other 1st-century Jews drank unfermented grape juice and that the “wine” described in the New Testament was in fact unfermented grape juice. After 8 years he abandoned the project, forced to admit that Jesus and His disciples did in fact drink fermented wine.
Paul
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PaulDupre
Guest
True, we Californians are very proud of our wines. I think we beat the French all to heck. Try J. Lohr Cabernet Sauvignon (my personal favorite) or Rex Goliath (any vintage). Very tasty!My friend if you find a wine that is “fetid” you may not be spending enough or the cork was bad. That happens once in awhile but in California…bad wine or bad corks is a rarety. Try it again and maybe start with a white wine…seems to be the beginner’s choice but red is where it is and you will get there soon enough.
Paul
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Mimi20
Guest
I’m a cradle Catholic, so up until earlier this past summer I had never been to any other ‘worship service’ or anything in my life, but my experience was somewhat similar.
My best friend went on a mission trip to Africa and one particular Sunday she was going to give the ‘sermon’ on basically a summary of her trip and asked me to be there for moral support. Of course I went, but not before having gone to Mass the evening before in order to fulfill weekly obligation.
Anyways, her religious affiliation is simply Christian in the “any church that preaches well, the Bible is God’s sole authority and Word, and your baptized when you decide to want Jesus as your Lord and Savior etc.” sense.
So her family all attended this non-denominational place, and were a bit of an ‘established’ family there. I was introduced around as a family friend. The people were nice and all but the whole time I felt like a fish out of water not knowing what to expect. I took it as a learning experience, which it surely was. As I was told their church was a lot less ‘formal’ than mine, but never having attended anything outside of Mass I had no idea what exactly that would entail.
In the beginning after service ‘officially started’ the main preacher or whoever asked if anyone in the service was new. A few persons rose their hands and were given what I could only describe as a gift bag which had information about the group, envelopes to donate, and a Bible among other things. (Note: I didn’t raise my hand but my friend’s mother was gracious enough to offer to receive a bag on my behalf.
To which I politely declined. I knew it would be of more use to anyone else who would be in actual need of it.)Then afterwards, everything being in a bit of a blur, it was mentioned there were people in the back who had baskets to give to the collection, and then everyone was getting up and going to the back. I assumed it was to give their donations and then everyone would resume their seat. (Why the basket couldn’t be passed around like at Mass I didn’t have a clue.
Lol!) However to my surprise it was some sort of ‘intermission’ in the service where people were gathering in groups and talking, or getting coffee or any other beverage from the snack bar in the other room or anything else. If that wasn’t surprise enough after regular service started up again I was shocked at how lax the service was in the fact people had their beverages with them and sipping casually throughout. And ‘worship’ consisted of random songs picked out by someone but really just sounded like anything along the lines of, “I love God/Jesus, He is my Savior,” and one specific Bible verse thrown in there. The only thing I could think of was that if these denominations were so scriptural I would’ve thought more parts of the worship would be more Bible based. (& How many things throughout the mass actually are Bible based and list the scripture verses they’re taken from, especially the music.) Then instead of a normal sermon It was my friend who spoke of her trip. So I have no idea how a more traditional service with the preacher would have been, but after her speech, a bit of Q&A it was a quick prayer and basically that concluded the entire service. I walked out of there a bit dumbfounded from the experience wondering what about doing that every Sunday was so fulfilling 
It seemed to me to be more of a community gathering with “service attendance optional”. But hey, at the very least I gained a more of an appreciation for the Mass.
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anodos
Guest
I didn’t know about the late invention of grape juice preservation, and thanks for the advice - I didn’t mean that all wine tasted bad to me. White wine is good. But still it wasn’t what I’d hoped for as a child (Irish Cream whiskey, on the other hand…The grape juice story has been passed around by many including LDS who simply cannot live with the idea that wine has been a part of man’s diet for thousands of years. The admonition in the Bible not to get drunk on wine is good advise and further evidence that wine was not non alcoholic…in fact grape juice preservation was invented by Welch at the turn of the century. Before that grape juice becomes wine and nothing could stop it…I might add fortunately. My friend if you find a wine that is “fetid” you may not be spending enough or the cork was bad. That happens once in awhile but in California…bad wine or bad corks is a rarety. Try it again and maybe start with a white wine…seems to be the beginner’s choice but red is where it is and you will get there soon enough.
) .Now I will stop talking before someone reports me for marketing alchoholic beverages to minors.
B
Brywan
Guest
Yes, there seems to be a real contimporary trend toward trying to convince ourselves that we are “spiritual” without being “religious”—people who fall into this trap fail to recognize how important ritual is to human life. We ritualize everything–not just our religious experience…one of the things that drew me to the Catholic/Orthodox tradition was the BEAUTY of their rituals…and there is beauty there–and MYSTERY…which is another important component of worship. I do believe that the pendulum will eventually swing back in the other direction in some of these “contemporary” mega-churces.I attended a non-denominational worship service this past fall with my my BIL and SIL while visiting them, and she attended Mass with me afterwards (they are ex-Catholics and we negotiated the church attendance on Sunday). I was appalled to see people drinking coffee during the service, and the Minister was “dressed down”. Apparently this has become quite the thing in some of the non-denom. churches lately.
Now when I was growing up, if my Protestant grandparents took me to church with them, we wore our Sunday best and everything was very solemn and formal. The Minister wore a suit and the choir was robed. We would never have dreamed of drinking coffee or anything during the service!
The service was in a school gym (not unusual, even for Catholics) and the musicians were contemporary–and very good. But the service only consisted of some praise and worship music and a long sermon, and a little bit of prayer–very little. I left feeling very unsatisfied and I was glad to get to Mass, which was lovely, prayerful, worshipful, and the priest gave a first-rate homily. My SIL was impressed that the priest could say so much in so little time, comparatively. The whole atmosphere was different. I just cannot get a handle on worshipping God in church while sipping on a cup of brew. There is a lot of complaining about how casual we Catholics have become at Mass, but these people have taken it to a whole new level. My staunch Protestant grandparents would have been appalled.
BTW, the sermon was on avoiding the trappings of religiosity–that is, making a show of a being religious on the outside while being corrupt on the inside. I can understand that, but I don’t think drinking a cup of coffee during a church service is going to solve that problem
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pablope
Guest
Hi, Jmoney…I do hope your wife’s friend will get to go with you to attend the Midnight Mass.
Also, in the advent Masses, the Gloria is not sung…so it will be at the Midnight Mass that you will get to hear or sing it…just pay special attention to it…it will be a glorious part of the Mass.
Merry Christmas to you and your family…
R
Redbaron998
Guest
Something positive then eh?
I remember when I was Methodist the pastor almost always started his sermon with, “One time I was at waffle house…” haha it was great. He was a great pastor and even though I am overjoyed about being Catholic and being within the fullness of faith I still remember and love those who first brought me to faith in Jesus.
God bless those sincere non-Catholic Christians and may the Holy Spirit bring all Christians to full unity at the Eucharistic table.
I remember when I was Methodist the pastor almost always started his sermon with, “One time I was at waffle house…” haha it was great. He was a great pastor and even though I am overjoyed about being Catholic and being within the fullness of faith I still remember and love those who first brought me to faith in Jesus.
God bless those sincere non-Catholic Christians and may the Holy Spirit bring all Christians to full unity at the Eucharistic table.
L
Link0126
Guest
The non-denom church I went to that ended up leading me back to the Catholic Church was like that. It was held in a movie theater. When you walked in you could get coffee and sit in the movie theater and drink it while a band played goo goo dolls. There was no lack of multi-media use through the service. Some people bought popcorn and had a snack during the service. We were given a cookie beforehand and told to “have fun”. That was exactly one year ago today, Christmas Eve 2010. Me and my wife walked out like “I guess we just went to church…” There was no reading at all from the Bible. Instead, we watched a section from Charlie Brown’s Christmas. It was really ridiculous.
I realized this is what happens when anyone can set themselves up as a pastor with no oversight. It made me realize the need for a structure and authority. My wife was always Catholic and I had been raised Catholic, after that I began looking back into Catholicism and went back a month or two later.
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Lochias
Guest
Indeed. For many of them, “truth” is whatever will best let them do whatever they’d like to do without the burden of a guilty conscience.
- Status