Stories of Christ and Baha'u'llah

[IgnatianPhilo]

Jesus Appears to the Disciples

36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
The Ascension of Jesus

50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Luke 24

Christ ressurected and speaking with his apostles, the true culmination of the story of Jesus, who defeated death, the final enemy.

The death of Mirza Hussain

In the early hours of 29 May 1892, Bahá’u’lláh passed away at the Mansion of Bahjí. Nine days later His will was unsealed.

 

[SteveVH]

 

[daler]

I did not say Bahaullah was an ordinary man, He was undoubtedly a very inspired and holy man, but so are many others. And great, inspired volumes have been written by many more (like Meister Ekhart for instance).

Actually most Avatars don’t write books, they give their teachings orally.Most of these teachings are usually quite concise and dense with meaning (like the beatitudes for instance), it is the disciples who expand on them with commentaries.

Bahaullah seems to have spent his time writing tons of stuff trying to explain his own thoughts (so much stuff that a lot still has not been translated). And from some of his thoughts on the Trinity, the afterlife etc, it is clear that he did not really know the inner truth about things as a true Avatar should.

Openmind,
. Thank you for your thoughts and courtesy. What occurs to me is that people have expectations, which form a particular lens through which they look. Thus, the “Avatar” must do this and say that, in order for certain souls to recognize Him.

. It is very interesting that part of the effect of His long imprisonment is that it afforded Him the opportunity to reveal so much which, I fully believe, is what God told Noah would happen, when understood this way: “I will make it rain for forty days and forty nights”. That is, there shall rain from the Heaven of Revelation for forty years unceasingly until the earth if flooded with the Words of God flowing from the Pen of Glory.

. I think it comes down to each individual, and what is or is not stirred within their hearts when they read the words of Jesus or Baha’u’llah. I always liked my old Red Letter edition of the Bible, for the Words of Jesus appeared from the midst of the words of men, and it is the effect of His own Words which have always confirmed in me that He was from God. It is the same now, as I read these Words of God which happen to flow from the Pen of the Ancient Beauty.

.

 

[daler]

Hi, Tony. I am a little confused as to what you are expecting from Christians. The only stories we have of Jesus are contained in the New Testament. We completely reject the Gnostic writings which, for instance, portray Jesus making clay birds as a child, breathing on them and watching them fly away, as if he used his divine powers to entertain himself.

So I guess the bottom line is that if you want stories of Jesus, go to the Bible. We know very little about Jesus’ life prior to his public ministry. What he accomplished was done in three years and that was documented by the writers of the Gospels.

Peace.

Steve

Steve,
. Sadly, there is not more written about Jesus. Also, how much I wish that we had words written in His own hand. We have only what we have, yet that is enough. It is more than a sketch, you know, but really not a whole lot more than a few verbal sketches from the Gospel writers. Would that Walter Cronkite had been around back then with a microphone and camera, eh?

.

.

 

[tonyfish58]

Jesus Appears to the Disciples

36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
The Ascension of Jesus

50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Luke 24

Christ ressurected and speaking with his apostles, the true culmination of the story of Jesus, who defeated death, the final enemy.

The death of Mirza Hussain

In the early hours of 29 May 1892, Bahá’u’lláh passed away at the Mansion of Bahjí. Nine days later His will was unsealed.

Unusual thing to post, but thank you I can draw this observation from that passage

Christ Lives in His Followers, He showed them how to Believe when they would see Him no More in the Flesh

Baha’ullah Lives in His Followers, He and the Bab, likewise told us God will never leave us alone!

“The Lord of the universe hath never raised up a prophet nor hath He sent down a Book unless He hath established His covenant with all men, calling for their acceptance of the next Revelation and of the next Book; inasmuch as the outpourings of His bounty are ceaseless and without limit.” (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 86)

God’s made a covenant or pledge with us – that He’ll never leave us alone. The more we study and learn about the power of the Covenant, the more we’ll see how it removes all the obstacles in our path:

Have no fear or doubts. The power of the Covenant will assist you and invigorate you and remove every obstacle from your path. “He, verily, will aid everyone that aideth Him, and will remember everyone that remembereth Him” (The Universal House of Justice, Ridvan 145, 1988, p. 3)

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Unusual thing to post, but thank you I can draw this observation from that passage

Christ Lives in His Followers, He showed them how to Believe when they would see Him no More in the Flesh

Baha’ullah Lives in His Followers, He and the Bab, likewise told us God will never leave us alone!

“The Lord of the universe hath never raised up a prophet nor hath He sent down a Book unless He hath established His covenant with all men, calling for their acceptance of the next Revelation and of the next Book; inasmuch as the outpourings of His bounty are ceaseless and without limit.” (The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 86)

God’s made a covenant or pledge with us – that He’ll never leave us alone. The more we study and learn about the power of the Covenant, the more we’ll see how it removes all the obstacles in our path:

Have no fear or doubts. The power of the Covenant will assist you and invigorate you and remove every obstacle from your path. “He, verily, will aid everyone that aideth Him, and will remember everyone that remembereth Him” (The Universal House of Justice, Ridvan 145, 1988, p. 3)

Regards Tony

I’m just pointing out differences between the two. Mirza Hussain is dead, while Jesus Christ is alive. Heres another difference, Jesus created the world, Mirza Hussain was just a creature.

1 At the beginning of time the Word already was; and God had the Word abiding with him, and the Word was God. 2 He abode, at the beginning of time, with God. 3 It was through him that all things came into being, and without him came nothing that has come to be. 4 In him there was life, and that life was the light of men.[1] 5 And the light shines in darkness, a darkness which was not able to master it.[2]

Whereas Mirza Hussain, he was just created.

 

[arthra]

“On one occasion,” writes Dr. J. E. Esslemont,

"Abdu’l-Bahá, the eldest son of Bahá’u’lláh, related to the writer the following particulars about His Father’s early days:

'From childhood He was extremely kind and generous. He was a great lover of outdoor life, most of His time being spent in the garden or the fields. He had an extraordinary power of attraction, which was felt by all. People always crowded around Him. Ministers and people of the Court would surround Him, and the children also were devoted to Him. When He was only thirteen or fourteen years old He became renowned for His learning…

When Bahá’u’lláh was twenty-two years old, His father died, and the Government wished Him to succeed to His father’s position in the Ministry as was customary in Persia, but Bahá’u’lláh did not accept the offer. Then the Prime Minister said: “Leave him to himself. Such a position is unworthy of him. He has some higher aim in view. I cannot understand him, but I am convinced that he is destined for some lofty career. His thoughts are not like ours. Let him alone.”’"

(“Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era,” pp. 29-30.)]

~ Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 106

 

[tonyfish58]

I’m just pointing out differences between the two. Mirza Hussain is dead, while Jesus Christ is alive. Heres another difference, Jesus created the world, Mirza Hussain was just a creature.

1 At the beginning of time the Word already was; and God had the Word abiding with him, and the Word was God. 2 He abode, at the beginning of time, with God. 3 It was through him that all things came into being, and without him came nothing that has come to be. 4 In him there was life, and that life was the light of men.[1] 5 And the light shines in darkness, a darkness which was not able to master it.[2]

Whereas Mirza Hussain, he was just created.

In the Baha’i Faith this is also applicable to Baha’u’llah and all the Prophets and there are ample quotes to provide, but that is Doctrinal talk to which this thread is not directed.

Here are some extracts of Baha’u’llah as a child

Infancy

From His birth, Bahá’u’lláh never cried, always remaining in a most remarkable state of peacefulness. His mother was completely astonished, and before long it became obvious to everyone around, that her Child was entirely different from other children.
**
Character and Qualities**

Bahá’u’lláh as a child displayed a purity of character quite extraordinary, and a wonderful, innate wisdom and knowledge.

He greatly loved outdoor life, spending most of His time in the garden or fields.

Extremely kind and generous, He had an incredible power of attraction, which was felt by all. People always crowded around Him, children were devoted to Him, and the ministers and people of the Court would gather about Him.

Letter

To His aunt, when still so young in years, the Child Bahá’u’lláh wrote this remarkable and most literate letter:-

“He is the Well-Beloved! God willing you are abiding restfully beneath the canopy of Divine mercy, and the tabernacle of His bounty. Although to outward seeming, I am little and cannot write, yet because this Illiterate One is clinging to the Divine Lote tree, He can read without knowledge and write without being taught. And this fact is clear and evident in the spiritual realm to those endowed with insight. Those who are outside have been, and still are, unaware of this mystery.”

Link to full story - bahai-library.com/davidmerrick_holydays_birthofbaha

It would be great to have more stories of Jesus as a Child, I would expect them to be much like the Stories of Baha’u’llah.

I like these stories of Jesus even if people do not Beleive the book of Thomas - Link - sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/lbob08.htm

I think somthing written that long ago with the Faith of Christ in mind has to be at least looked at with interest

Astonishes his schoolmaster by his learning.

1A CERTAIN schoolmaster named Zacchæus, standing in a certain place, heard Jesus speaking these things to his father.

2 And he was much surprised, that being a child, he should speak such things; and after a few days he came to Joseph, and said,

3 Thou hast a wise and sensible child, send him to me, that he may learn to read.

4 When he sat down to teach the letters to Jesus, he began with the first letter Aleph;

5 But Jesus pronounced the second letter Mpeth (Beth) Cghimel (Gimel), and said over all the letters to him to the end.

6 Then opening a book, he taught his master the prophets: but be was ashamed, and was at a loss to conceive how he came to know the letters.

7 And he arose and went home, wonderfully surprised at so strange a thing.

Regards Tony

 

[daler]

I’m just pointing out differences between the two. Mirza Hussain is dead, while Jesus Christ is alive. Heres another difference, Jesus created the world, Mirza Hussain was just a creature.

1 At the beginning of time the Word already was; and God had the Word abiding with him, and the Word was God. 2 He abode, at the beginning of time, with God. 3 It was through him that all things came into being, and without him came nothing that has come to be. 4 In him there was life, and that life was the light of men.[1] 5 And the light shines in darkness, a darkness which was not able to master it.[2]

Whereas Mirza Hussain, he was just created.

Whereas Ignatian was just created, he wouldn’t really know, would he, who Baha’u’llah or Christ are. Rather, he might just ramble on about this and that endlessly, never knowing, really “knowing”, who the Who is behind all of the Prophets and Messengers of God.

Of course if he wanted to know, really “wanted” to know, and come up with answers in response to new information, and had the pure intention of discussing the matter in light of such information as is available to him, he would spend a few hours, days, or weeks studying the veracity of the claims of the Bab and Baha’u’llah from the perspective of honest, analytical research.

Alas, as this is not his aim or intention, he will not apply the fine abilities of his mind in the arena of discovery, preferring to puff on an old cigar, daring not to touch the books which would clearly refute his false assumptions.

Should he, however, by the grace and favor of God, ever commit himself to solid pursuit of the necessary subject matter of two and a half decades of scholarly work, overcoming the inertia that binds him to his current condition of comfort, I would so highly recommend to him the acquisition of the much needed “I Shall Come Again”, by Hushidar Motlagh.

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Whereas Ignatian was just created, he wouldn’t really know, would he, who Baha’u’llah or Christ are. Rather, he might just ramble on about this and that endlessly, never knowing, really “knowing”, who the Who is behind all of the Prophets and Messengers of God.

Of course if he wanted to know, really “wanted” to know, and come up with answers in response to new information, and had the pure intention of discussing the matter in light of such information as is available to him, he would spend a few hours, days, or weeks studying the veracity of the claims of the Bab and Baha’u’llah from the perspective of honest, analytical research.

Alas, as this is not his aim or intention, he will not apply the fine abilities of his mind in the arena of discovery, preferring to puff on an old cigar, daring not to touch the books which would clearly refute his false assumptions.

Should he, however, by the grace and favor of God, ever commit himself to solid pursuit of the necessary subject matter of two and a half decades of scholarly work, overcoming the inertia that binds him to his current condition of comfort, I would so highly recommend to him the acquisition of the much needed “I Shall Come Again”, by Hushidar Motlagh.

.

I don’t understand a word you said. I thought this was about stories concerning your prophet and Jesus the Christ. Do deny the gospels? Well of course you do, but I trust the gospels to tell us more things about Jesus than I trust your prophet.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

In the Baha’i Faith this is also applicable to Baha’u’llah and all the Prophets and there are ample quotes to provide, but that is Doctrinal talk to which this thread is not directed.

Here are some extracts of Baha’u’llah as a child

Infancy

From His birth, Bahá’u’lláh never cried, always remaining in a most remarkable state of peacefulness. His mother was completely astonished, and before long it became obvious to everyone around, that her Child was entirely different from other children.
**
Character and Qualities**

Bahá’u’lláh as a child displayed a purity of character quite extraordinary, and a wonderful, innate wisdom and knowledge.

He greatly loved outdoor life, spending most of His time in the garden or fields.

Extremely kind and generous, He had an incredible power of attraction, which was felt by all. People always crowded around Him, children were devoted to Him, and the ministers and people of the Court would gather about Him.

Letter

To His aunt, when still so young in years, the Child Bahá’u’lláh wrote this remarkable and most literate letter:-

“He is the Well-Beloved! God willing you are abiding restfully beneath the canopy of Divine mercy, and the tabernacle of His bounty. Although to outward seeming, I am little and cannot write, yet because this Illiterate One is clinging to the Divine Lote tree, He can read without knowledge and write without being taught. And this fact is clear and evident in the spiritual realm to those endowed with insight. Those who are outside have been, and still are, unaware of this mystery.”

Link to full story - bahai-library.com/davidmerrick_holydays_birthofbaha

It would be great to have more stories of Jesus as a Child, I would expect them to be much like the Stories of Baha’u’llah.

I like these stories of Jesus even if people do not Beleive the book of Thomas - Link - sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/lbob08.htm

I think somthing written that long ago with the Faith of Christ in mind has to be at least looked at with interest

Astonishes his schoolmaster by his learning.

1A CERTAIN schoolmaster named Zacchæus, standing in a certain place, heard Jesus speaking these things to his father.

2 And he was much surprised, that being a child, he should speak such things; and after a few days he came to Joseph, and said,

3 Thou hast a wise and sensible child, send him to me, that he may learn to read.

4 When he sat down to teach the letters to Jesus, he began with the first letter Aleph;

5 But Jesus pronounced the second letter Mpeth (Beth) Cghimel (Gimel), and said over all the letters to him to the end.

6 Then opening a book, he taught his master the prophets: but be was ashamed, and was at a loss to conceive how he came to know the letters.

7 And he arose and went home, wonderfully surprised at so strange a thing.

Regards Tony

Lets grant all that to your so called prophet (though I disbelieve it). There are crucial differences. Your prophet is dead and rotten, Christ is alive and risen. Your prophet is but a mere creation, Jesus Christ is the eternal God who created everything which began to exist.

Also keep your apocryphal gospels to yourself, they are not trustworthy.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Steve,
. Sadly, there is not more written about Jesus. Also, how much I wish that we had words written in His own hand. We have only what we have, yet that is enough. It is more than a sketch, you know, but really not a whole lot more than a few verbal sketches from the Gospel writers. Would that Walter Cronkite had been around back then with a microphone and camera, eh?

.

.

Do you trust those your prophet appointed? Why don’t the bahai trust the apostles whom Jesus Christ appointed to teach us about the life of Christ and purpose of the gospel? The bahai are egoists, believing only themselves capable of preserving divine revelation, everyone else except them has failed cause your so holy I guess.

 

[tonyfish58]

Lets grant all that to your so called prophet (though I disbelieve it). There are crucial differences. Your prophet is dead and rotten, Christ is alive and risen. Your prophet is but a mere creation, Jesus Christ is the eternal God who created everything which began to exist.

Also keep your apocryphal gospels to yourself, they are not trustworthy.

Once again Doctrinal Assumptions. Baha’ullah is just alive to me as is Christ

I can not see Christ, but by His Word I can know Him and Love Him, likewise Baha’u’llah

I looked up the word “Ignatian” @ link ignatianspirituality.com/what-is-ignatian-spirituality/

Ignatian spirituality is a spirituality for everyday life. It insists that God is present in our world and active in our lives. It is a pathway to deeper prayer, good decisions guided by keen discernment, and an active life of service to others.

Is this not a Follower of Christ? It is what a Baha’i should be

Here is the Catholic view on the Gnostic Gospels - catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0676.html

Shame - I like the stories

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Once again Doctrinal Assumptions. Baha’ullah is just alive to me as is Christ

I can not see Christ, but by His Word I can know Him and Love Him, likewise Baha’u’llah

I looked up the word “Ignatian” @ link ignatianspirituality.com/what-is-ignatian-spirituality/

Ignatian spirituality is a spirituality for everyday life. It insists that God is present in our world and active in our lives. It is a pathway to deeper prayer, good decisions guided by keen discernment, and an active life of service to others.

Is this not a Follower of Christ? It is what a Baha’i should be

Here is the Catholic view on the Gnostic Gospels - catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0676.html

Shame - I like the stories

Regards Tony

No, your prophet’s body is dead. he has no power over death but succumbed to it, unlike the lord Jesus Christ whom death could not hold. Don’t reinterpret my words, don’t use them in your bahai manner, deal with how I am using teh words instead of avoiding the main issue which is the favourite bahai thing to do. Now you may not have seen Christ, but his apostles did, and they claimed him risen from the dead, you however do not trust his apostles because you believe only the enlightened bahai could possibly have the truth, the apostles being judean peasents couldn’t understand Jesus Christ so no wonder the church exists as it is today, founded on judean supistion and mythology. Do I have it right? Or do you think the apostles were victorious as the quran you apparently believe in says? Which is it? Bahai seem to peddle both stories when convenient.

But you can ignore my main point, it doesn’t change the fundamental differences. Your prophet is dead, Jesus Christ is alive. Your prophet couldn’t save us from our sins, Jesus could. Your prophet is a creature, jesus Christ is creator. But that just comes from the silly old bible, probably invented by the evil apostle Paul.

 

[drac16]

So, in essence, what I’ve gotten out the replies here is that Baha’u’llah was wise at a young age. I would contest that he was ignorant of Islam, but for the sake of the argument, let’s say that he was wise even as a kid and that *he did * understand Islam. That in and of itself is not proof of prophethood. Plenty of people throughout history, who were not prophets, have had wisdom at early ages and/or have even performed miracles (Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Ali ibn Abu Talib, Mary [the mother of Jesus], Abdul-Qadir Jilani and more).

Theology matters, so if indeed Baha’u’llah was a prophet, or even more than that, then his theology should be consistent with Islam (because baha’is claim that he’s a fulfillment of many Islamic prophecies). Admittedly, I know very little of Baha’u’llah, but the more I learn about Baha’u’llah, the more I see that he was simply ignorant, like in the case of his claims about Imam Husayn [may Allah be pleased with him]. Baha’u’llah claimed to be the returned incarnation of Husayn ibn Ali [may Allah be pleased with him], but there’s not a scintilla of evidence that Husayn ibn Ali believed in anything other than Tawheed. The idea that Husayn ibn Ali, in his re-incarnated form, would be claiming to be a manifestation of God, which contradicts the Islamic prinicple of Tawheed, is absolutely absurd.

Husayn [may Allah be pleased with him] was one of the greatest muslims of the second generation of the sahaba; he was not a blasphemer.

 

[tonyfish58]

Though it would be a great subject, this is not the intent of this thread. The Knowledge that both the Bab and Baha’u’llah had of the Islamic Scriptures is recorded in History for all to research if they so wish.

Just remember Christ was also accused of this by the Jews, who do you think had the greater knowledge of the Old Testament? The current thoughts of man at the time or Jesus the Christ! I know what the Jews accused Jesus of…

Skill and Renown

By the time he was thirteen, Bahá’u’lláh was renowned for His ability to discuss any matter, and resolve any problem presented before Him.

He was always courteous and patient, and only the disrespectful reference to a Messenger or Chosen One of God was able to arouse His displeasure; even then, He would address the offender with kindliness and calm.

He appeared before large gatherings in discussions with the leading clergy, resolving intricate religious questions, whilst everyone paid deep attention and interest, and His explanations became the authoritative word on every matter.

Despite these abilities, the kulah on His head and the locks flowing over His shoulders meant no one ever suspected a person of such a class would become the fountain of a new Truth and revitalising Spirit.

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

No, your prophet’s body is dead. he has no power over death but succumbed to it, unlike the lord Jesus Christ whom death could not hold. Don’t reinterpret my words, don’t use them in your bahai manner, deal with how I am using teh words instead of avoiding the main issue which is the favourite bahai thing to do. Now you may not have seen Christ, but his apostles did, and they claimed him risen from the dead, you however do not trust his apostles because you believe only the enlightened bahai could possibly have the truth, the apostles being judean peasents couldn’t understand Jesus Christ so no wonder the church exists as it is today, founded on judean supistion and mythology. Do I have it right? Or do you think the apostles were victorious as the quran you apparently believe in says? Which is it? Bahai seem to peddle both stories when convenient.

But you can ignore my main point, it doesn’t change the fundamental differences. Your prophet is dead, Jesus Christ is alive. Your prophet couldn’t save us from our sins, Jesus could. Your prophet is a creature, jesus Christ is creator. But that just comes from the silly old bible, probably invented by the evil apostle Paul.

I have only good in my Heart for Christ - God Bless and please we do not need to discuss this on this thread

In Christs Love - Regards Tony

 

[daler]

I don’t understand a word you said. I thought this was about stories concerning your prophet and Jesus the Christ. Do deny the gospels? Well of course you do, but I trust the gospels to tell us more things about Jesus than I trust your prophet.

Round and round the rehash goes. You dare to claim those of us who uphold the Gospels deny them simply because we see things in light of reason and a more recent Revelation in which Baha’u’llah came to “unseal” the meanings of the Holy Books, as was prophesied.

Read the Kitab-i-Iqan, Ignatian friend, for this is the Book which was sealed to Daniel and Revelation, and also the Quran, to even the “Seal” of the Prophets. Not until the Promised One appeared would these seals be removed. This is the most profound Book you will ever likely read. It is readable, but it is immensely deep. You can’t go at it with the usual Reader’s Digest flip though the pages attitude.

I will provide a link and assign you to study it, really study it, and without the usual arrogance and pride, but prayerfully beseech Jesus to show you the truth by means of the Holy Spirit. It is not a light or superficial read. The depths of the one religion of God are brought to light in the most profound discourse every revealed to humanity, wherein the Books are “unsealed”. If you cannot to commit to this, I think none of us here can take you seriously as a seeker of truth.

May God assist you with an unhardened heart in the process and remove the scales from your eyes, thus transforming you from Saul into Paul, for you do have the potential. That is, if the heart of Paul is within you, and you are sober in your undertaking:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/

Bless you, brother Ignatian. I am praying for you in this. Take me up on the offer, then speak to me with new insight, please, from that which you read, slowly, studiously, and with humility, not hate and contrition. If you do this, your eyes will be opened, my friend. But it is up to you. May God bless you with a pure and sanctified heart.

Dale

 

[drac16]

Though it would be a great subject, this is not the intent of this thread. The Knowledge that both the Bab and Baha’u’llah had of the Islamic Scriptures is recorded in History for all to research if they so wish.

Just remember Christ was also accused of this by the Jews, who do you think had the greater knowledge of the Old Testament? The current thoughts of man at the time or Jesus the Christ! I know what the Jews accused Jesus of…

Tony, you didn’t answer or address anything I said. You guys keep saying that, if we’ll just investigate for ourselves, the truth of Baha’u’llah’s teachings will become clear, but here you are, dismissing me. I want to investigate! I want to see the evidence that you guys keep talking about! Please, show me where in history Imam Husayn [may Allah be pleased with him] professed a belief in what baha’is call ‘manifestations of God’. Show me where he defined this. I wanna see it.

 

[daler]

So, in essence, what I’ve gotten out the replies here is that Baha’u’llah was wise at a young age. I would contest that he was ignorant of Islam, but for the sake of the argument, let’s say that he was wise even as a kid and that *he did * understand Islam. That in and of itself is not proof of prophethood. Plenty of people throughout history, who were not prophets, have had wisdom at early ages and/or have even performed miracles (Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Ali ibn Abu Talib, Mary [the mother of Jesus], Abdul-Qadir Jilani and more).

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Drac,
. You are my brother in that we share the belief in the Prophethood of Muhammad, may Praise and blessings forever be upon Him! Christians argue that Muhammad was ignorant of Jewish and Christian subjects. They fail to recognize that the Prophet was tapped into the very Source of all of the Prophets. Where they differ is that the Message of Muhammad came straight from Allah, through the Angel Gabriel, even as He delivered the Message to Daniel the Prophet, who prophesied the coming of the Promised One in the year 1260 AH for the Bab, and 1280 AH for Baha’u’llah. Daniel also mentions 1290, and as from the public declaration of Muhammad being ten years prior to the Hijra, this date is also 1280 AH, which is 1863 AD, the very year of the public declaration of Baha’u’llah. 1260 AH is the declaration of the Bab, in 1844 AD. These prophetic numbers appear in the Book of Daniel, revealed by Gabriel to him, and in Revelation, again and again.

You know that it is said that the Proofs of the Revelation of the Quran rests in the Verses themselves, which no man can reveal verses like that. The Bab revealed verses like the Quran. Read them and see for yourself. If you still have doubts, produce a Surah like it. The Bab and Muhammad (PBUH) are like two Pens in the very Hand of Allah, 1260 years apart, and Baha’u’llah is another Pen in God’s hand. Thousands of Muslims testify to this with their lives when they become Baha’is. My relatives have been imprisoned. One recently killed by fanatics even as the fanatics of Mecca persecuted and killed the followers of the Prophet.

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