Story of a Deathbed conversion

[Mike_from_NJ]

I get the feeling you’re just posting that because you want to challenge anyone having a positive view of religion. Well I have a negative view of irreligion, it’s not a fantasy, when you actually see it happen you know.

That is not the case at all. As I’ve noted already I agree that deathbed conversions sometime occur. The issue is when some of those claims are unsubstantiated, and in some cases are shown to be complete lies. It has become so popular to suggest that non-Christians have made deathbed conversions to Christianity that people like Christopher Hitchens had to make a public announcement that if you hear such a rumor about him not to believe it as it’s a lie. And despite that announcement we still had people telling a boldfaced lie that he had made such a conversion. People also had to shoot down rumors that Stephen Hawking had a deathbed conversion.

It’s important to note that the eighth commandment against bearing false witness applies even if doing so might help the faith.

Again, and I can not stress this enough, there are people making deathbed confession – including to Christianity and from Christianity, or to faith and from faith. To say that it never happens would in and of itself be a lie. But it is only right to allow someone the dignity of their identity and their reputation by quashing unsubstantiated claims of conversions – even if the people involved are people you are diametrically opposed to philisophically.

 

[jeannetherese]

Christianity that people like Christopher Hitchens had to make a public announcement that if you hear such a rumor about him not to believe it as it’s a lie.

Of course, it’s possible that Mr. Hitchens changed his mind at the last minute-I’ll never know; but I will hope and pray for him. What makes deathbed conversions hard to determine, in some cases, is that, short of an obvious sign or declaration, we can’t read the mind of that dying man or woman at the very last moment. We must leave it in God’s hands.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Mike_from_NJ:

Christianity that people like Christopher Hitchens had to make a public announcement that if you hear such a rumor about him not to believe it as it’s a lie.

Of course, it’s possible that Mr. Hitchens changed his mind at the last minute-I’ll never know; but I will hope and pray for him. What makes deathbed conversions hard to determine, in some cases, is that, short of an obvious sign or declaration, we can’t read the mind of that dying man or woman at the very last moment. We must leave it in God’s hands.

Let’s take this piece-by-piece. Could it have been possible that Mother Teresa on her deathbed converted to non-belief?

 

[jeannetherese]

Yes, God forbid, but it is possible. I think you and I are in agreement here, Mike.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

However, I wonder if you will allow me the following qualification?
As Mother Teresa has been declared a saint by the Church, the fact that I am allowing for a statistical possibility, is countered by two miracles which resulted from her intercession.
On the basis of a thorough investigation into her life and the confirming evidence of those miracles, it is reasonable to expect her to be in heaven with Our Lord which is recognized through the declaration regarding her sainthood.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Okay. So now, would it be wrong for me to state that she had (or likely had) made a conversion without any evidence? Would my doing potentially be a mark on her character and her legacy?

Remember Hitchens had the added bonus of not only making that announcement that he would not be making a deathbed confession, but he also had people by his side to the very end.

EDITED: You made a good point about how a saint would by definition have believed to the end and thus would not make a good example. If you could, replace my example with anyone who is known for their Catholicism, but not yet canonized (whether it be a figure in the Church, or a Catholic lay person noted for their faith).

 

[jeannetherese]

I think that if you were mistaken that your answer would be incorrect. If you were deliberately telling a falsehood, then your action would be morally wrong.
Your comment would not be a mark on her character; rather, it would be a mark on yours.
It would be difficult to determine how it might affect her legacy on earth. Some might do more research, some might argue or dig in with a current argumen
Her legacy in heaven would remain unchanged.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I think that if you were mistaken that your answer would be incorrect. if you were deliberately telling a falsehood, then your action would be morally wrong.
Your comment would not be a mark on her character; rather, it would be a mark on yours.

Except that not all claims fall neatly into the categories of verified true or verified false. Often times the claims can’t be shown to be either. There will always be that doubt, despite there being no true evidence to support it.

It would be difficult to determine how it might affect her legacy on earth. Some might do more research, some might argue or dig in with a current argument.

Even with the cases in the article I linked to there are those who say the claims that no conversion took place are not convincing. It’s a cloud that continues to hang over the legacies of some people through no fault of their own.

I’ve said that it’s a violation of a commandment to claim such a conversion falsely, but the main person from my first post is to show why I am suspicious of deathbed conversion claims. It’s not rare that people with an agenda to make it seem non-believers see the so-called Truth as they approach death, that there is a considerable chance the claim is a false one. The fact that such an agenda exists unfortunately can not be denied.

Her legacy in heaven would remain unchanged.

That may be, but the legacy on Earth would be tarnished to some degree.

 

[Mijoy2]

“They should let the dead rest in peace.” (taken from end of article).

Isn’t this a contradiction? If the atheist is correct, there is nothing left to “rest in peace” (no soul). They simply are NOT.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

It’s not referring to souls but to the memories of them. It’s the commonest of courtesies.