Story of Noah: Who believes it to be real?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

No one is ignoring geology; quite the contrary. Modern geology is telling us that “Lyell’s version” or interpretation of geologic events and sedimentary formations are now seen as false or as a lie when main stream geologists refuse to discuss the alternatives based on field and lab studies of the past 25 years or so. Lyell himself I suspect was not a liar. He and Darwin just had an axe to grind which was to ridicule and ignore catastrophes and/or flood geology and they pursued it with vigor. Their disciples continue to make the same mistakes as noted on this and other CA threads.

With regards what makes the difference of a few zeros [more like six zeros actually] all those zeros and the baggage being carried with the extra zeros has confused the whole issue of origins. On the face of it the doctrines of the church and what the 28 church fathers wrote about the doctrines of Genesis 1-11 are ignored or eliminated.

Thus the pendulum is now swinging back to study of earth’s catastrophes and even flood geology. Therefore Moses sizzles while Darwin/Lyell fizzles.

The Fathers had no competence in geology. They had no science but that of their own times, or that of the (much earlier) Biblical texts. They are no more authoritative for us in the earth sciences than the Hereford Mappa Mundi could be. Why should Christians have a Space Age understanding of most aspects of life, but a Bronze Age understanding of human origins or geography ? If we must have a Bronze Age knowledge of the world, why have Space Age medical science ?​

In any case, “the Fathers” is an abstraction; the writers in that group covered as long a period as there is between the Exodus-period & the sack of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar - IOW, between six & seven centuries. They did not agree in all matters, even with themselves - so how can anybody be expected to take their words as final ? Since geology is a science that grew up long after their times, it makes no sense to treat them as authorities on it. The solution: to listen to those who do have some competence in the earth sciences, & to ignore them if & when they speak beyond their competence.

 

[buffalo]

The Fathers had no competence in geology. They had no science but that of their own times, or that of the (much earlier) Biblical texts. They are no more authoritative for us in the earth sciences than the Hereford Mappa Mundi could be. Why should Christians have a Space Age understanding of most aspects of life, but a Bronze Age understanding of human origins or geography ? If we must have a Bronze Age knowledge of the world, why have Space Age medical science ?​

In any case, “the Fathers” is an abstraction; the writers in that group covered as long a period as there is between the Exodus-period & the sack of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar - IOW, between six & seven centuries. They did not agree in all matters, even with themselves - so how can anybody be expected to take their words as final ? Since geology is a science that grew up long after their times, it makes no sense to treat them as authorities on it. The solution: to listen to those who do have some competence in the earth sciences, & to ignore them if & when they speak beyond their competence.

We must remember that they were inspired and that the truth they convey is good for all ages. Otherwise scripture is denigrated to man as the only author.

 

[peary]

Thought some of you would enjoy reading this article I found on the Scotsman.com website.

Last Ice Age happened in less than year say scientists

02 August 2008
By Angus Howarth

THE last ice age 13,000 years ago took hold in just one year, more than ten times quicker than previously believed, scientists have warned.

Rather than a gradual cooling over a decade, the ice age plunged Europe into the deep freeze, German Research Centre for Geosciences at Potsdam said.

Cold, stormy conditions caused by an abrupt shift in atmospheric circulation froze the continent almost instantly during the Younger Dryas less than 13,000 years ago – a very recent period on a geological scale.

The new findings will add to fears of a serious risk of this happening again in the UK and western Europe – and soon.

Dr Achim Brauer, of the GFZ (GeoForschungs Zentrum) German Research Centre for Geosciences at Potsdam, and colleagues analysed annual layers of sediments, called “varves”, from a German crater lake.

 

[Philipp]

Well, that is true in your case. One must understand geology in order to ignore it. Since you don’t understand it, there is nothing to ignore.

Peace

Tim

Sorry that you have a problem with cutting edge research. There is new data in geology, sedimentology, anthropology, fossil ichnites and the earth’s chronology which you are apparently unwilling to accept. Being a chemist I am not subserviant to the last 150 years of “traditional” geology so I can accept new ideas and data. I guess we shall just go on feeling sorry for each other’s ignorance. Sorry about that!

 

[Philipp]

Thought some of you would enjoy reading this article I found on the Scotsman.com website.

Last Ice Age happened in less than year say scientists

02 August 2008
By Angus Howarth

THE last ice age 13,000 years ago took hold in just one year, more than ten times quicker than previously believed, scientists have warned.

Rather than a gradual cooling over a decade, the ice age plunged Europe into the deep freeze, German Research Centre for Geosciences at Potsdam said.

Cold, stormy conditions caused by an abrupt shift in atmospheric circulation froze the continent almost instantly during the Younger Dryas less than 13,000 years ago – a very recent period on a geological scale.

The new findings will add to fears of a serious risk of this happening again in the UK and western Europe – and soon.

Dr Achim Brauer, of the GFZ (GeoForschungs Zentrum) German Research Centre for Geosciences at Potsdam, and colleagues analysed annual layers of sediments, called “varves”, from a German crater lake.

Uhm! More new data that supports catastrophism. "Oh my, lions, tigers, dinosaurs and now a quick deep freeze. Someone better call in ACLU and the California evolutionary spy group and run a check on that German research group. They could be closet creationists posing as main stream scientists.

 

[Philipp]

We must remember that they were inspired and that the truth they convey is good for all ages. Otherwise scripture is denigrated to man as the only author.

Thank you “Buffalo” for the good use of your “buffalo horns.”
Inspired they were, all 28 of them and their councils and popes.

 

[buffalo]

Thank you “Buffalo” for the good use of your “buffalo horns.”
Inspired they were, all 28 of them and their councils and popes.

Actually, Buffalo is good at trampling heresy.

 

[Orogeny]

Sorry that you have a problem with cutting edge research. There is new data in geology, sedimentology, anthropology, fossil ichnites and the earth’s chronology which you are apparently unwilling to accept. Being a chemist I am not subserviant to the last 150 years of “traditional” geology so I can accept new ideas and data. I guess we shall just go on feeling sorry for each other’s ignorance. Sorry about that!

Which publications can I find them in?

Peace

Tim

 

[Philipp]

Actually, Buffalo is good at trampling heresy.

You’ll find a lot of heresy on these threads in the name of science so keep on a atrampling.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

We must remember that they were inspired and that the truth they convey is good for all ages. Otherwise scripture is denigrated to man as the only author.

The Scriptures are inspired - but not the Fathers. Even so, the inspiration of this part of the Bible does not make it reliable as a text on the sciences.​

 

[buffalo]

The Scriptures are inspired - but not the Fathers. Even so, the inspiration of this part of the Bible does not make it reliable as a text on the sciences.​

Here again the point is that we must be very careful when we make the claim the Scriptural writings are limited to the time they were written. Since God is the author He spoke in a way that would stand for all ages.

 

[peary]

Here again the point is that we must be very careful when we make the claim the Scriptural writings are limited to the time they were written. Since God is the author He spoke in a way that would stand for all ages.

As far as the discipline of Science is concerned, those writing Scripture were definitely limited to the times they wrote. Science is not a discipline of understanding the soul or God’s relationship to us. It may, however, reflect certain aspects of the physical universe that can affect us physically and how this can influence our eternal salvation by the choices we make, but not our actual relationship to God.

 

[buffalo]

As far as the discipline of Science is concerned, those writing Scripture were definitely limited to the times they wrote. Science is not a discipline of understanding the soul or God’s relationship to us. It may, however, reflect certain aspects of the physical universe that can affect us physically and how this can influence our eternal salvation by the choices we make, but not our actual relationship to God.

If God told them to write about something that would be science it would be true for all time. The key is to determine what is and what isn’t.

 

[peary]

If God told them to write about something that would be science it would be true for all time. The key is to determine what is and what isn’t.

**Have you ever taken a Science course in school? Sheesh **

 

[buffalo]

**Have you ever taken a Science course in school? Sheesh **

School? What is that? Plenty of them and much study after.

Let’s define science, shall we?

But first, let’s put it in context. Science is a subset of truth. God is the author of science.

Now in His Revelation He asserts certain things. They are true. In certain places they intersect with scientific knowledge. Now I agree the Bible is not a scientific textbook.

If God says something is true then eventually science will confirm.

 

[peary]

School? What is that? Plenty of them and much study after.

Let’s define science, shall we?

But first, let’s put it in context. Science is a subset of truth. God is the author of science.

Science is a human discipline developed to explain the physical universe and how it works.

Now in His Revelation He asserts certain things. They are true. In certain places they intersect with scientific knowledge. Now I agree the Bible is not a scientific textbook.

If God says something is true then eventually science will confirm.

Well, I HOPE you understand that the Genesis story of creation is a reflection of an ancient cosmology, rather than what we actually know today.

 

[buffalo]

Well, I HOPE you understand that the Genesis story of creation is a reflection of an ancient cosmology, rather than what we actually know today.

God didn’t understand His own creation?

 

[peary]

Well, I HOPE you understand that the Genesis story of creation is a reflection of an ancient cosmology, rather than what we actually know today.

God didn’t understand His own creation?

**Where are you coming from?? **

 

[buffalo]

Where are you coming from??

Answer the question.

 

[Philipp]

Well, I HOPE you understand that the Genesis story of creation is a reflection of an ancient cosmology, rather than what we actually know today.

God didn’t understand His own creation?

God did understand his creation as Buffalo continues to explain, as has Jesus N Cherie.

I read this commentary which seems to be an important aspect for understanding scripture and Genesis 1-11:

If “day” really means a “1000 yrs” [or more] in the Bible, then Jonah was in the fish for 3000 yrs! When the Bible’s being symbolic, you can tell. When Jesus says, “the seven candlesticks are the seven churches” (Rev 1:20), you know He doesn’t mean there’s a little door with people inside [each candlestick]! Most of the Bible is a serious history book – written in Hebrew “narrative” form. When it’s symbolic you can not only tell by the “candle” example – [but] and also the writing style changes to “lyrical” form.
Genesis is all written in historical / narrative Hebrew. Some people think it’s just a “story” – but it doesn’t start out like “long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away!” [as does the evolution story].