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Ron_Conte
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The story of Noah contains some literal (historical) elements,
and some figurative elements.
and some figurative elements.
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Mark_Renaud
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Ron, I was curious about your reply. I was wondering what criterion that you use to determine which elements of God’s Flood at the time of Noah are literal and which elements are figurative. It would help me to understand your perspective if you could let me know what criterion you are using to make a distinction between the historical and figurative elements. - Thanks, Mark Renaud
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HankZ
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My vote is a unquestionable YES. God flooded the earth as He said and Noah, a servent of God, was saved from certain death and given the responsibility to build the Ark as per God’s instruction. If you have ever seen a seashell in the middle of Wisconsin buried in the dirt, or walked through a cave only to have a guide point out a fossil of a jelly fish and try to explain how it is millions of years old, how about the finding of a sabber toothed tiger in AntiArtica with fossilised tropical plants frozen in it’s stomache, or the dinosaur bones with red blood cells still on the bone found in Alaska, doesn’t the rainbow make you still thank God that He hasn’t yet judged this world? I take God at His word as it is Always the truth.
HankZ
HankZ
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Mark_Renaud
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HankZ, I appreciate your post. Apparently you actually believe the Word of God is accurate and not just ‘part fictional’. The evidence that you shared are great examples of what one would expect to find in a world wide flood situation.If the account of God’s flood at the time of Noah is not historically and scientifically accurate then what say we of the rest of the Scriptures?
Thanks, Mark Renaud
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Orogeny
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Um, it doesn’t come from the dirt, it comes from either a nearby rock outcrop or from the underlying bedrock.
First, I would love to see a fossil jellyfish in a cave. Second, the fossil is in a rock, not left by a flood.
Have a citation for that? I bet those long canines made grazing very difficult!
Have a citation for that?
No.
As do I.
Peace
Tim
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Orogeny
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No, actually it is not.
You don’t find any modern (scleractinia) corals with horn (rugosa) or tabulate (tabulata) corals. For the life of me I can’t imagine how the modern corals swam to shallower water to avoid being buried with the horn and tabulate corals.
I can’t see how the 300-400 meter thick Dover chalk was formed in a flood.
I can’t see how the thick evaporite formations of the Permian basin in West Texas were formed in a flood.
In fact, from a geologic standpoint, there is no evidence that a global flood happened.
Peace
Tim
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Mark_Renaud
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Dear Tim,
Am I to understand that since you can’t “imagine” and you can’t “see” therefore you believe that it doesn’t exist?
How long have you been looking for geological evidence of the truth of God’s Flood at the time of Noah? What would the evidence have to look like in order for you to actually believe that the words that are recorded in Scripture are actually true?
What are you going to have to “see” in order to believe?:
I am sure you are aware of what Jesus said concerning the ‘days of Noah’ and God’s flood at the time of Noah - what say ye of those scriptures?:whacky:
Just wondering, Mark Renaud
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Orogeny
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No, I am open to the possibility that they existed at the same time. When will you be submitting your finds for publication.Dear Tim,
Am I to understand that since you can’t “imagine” and you can’t “see” therefore you believe that it doesn’t exist?
Well, for me personally about 28 years. For other geologists, hundreds of years. So far, nothing.
All sedimentary rocks having been deposited in the same depositional environment (they are not). Fossils distributed evenly throughout the geologic column (they are not). No evaporites (they exist). No carbonates (they exist).What would the evidence have to look like in order for you to actually believe that the words that are recorded in Scripture are actually true?
Shall I continue?
Well, this was just covered in another thread, but my guess is that Jesus knew that the story of Noah was a theological story and not a historical event. He spoke of it to His disciples in a way that they understood.
Peace
Tim
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HankZ
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Tim,
Most scientist believe in many massive, local floods through out the world. Now, as far as a jelly fish fossil, go to the Cave of the Mounds in Wisconsin if you are wanting to see it. My point was this, a jelly fish would not last 24 hours on a beach with or without birds or crabs around. How can it be left for thousands of years(as the scientific community explains how fossils are formed) and be left unhampered and stay hydrated long enough to be buried in dust? I will not do homework for you and prove each and everything I say. If you do not believe then proof is not helpful and I won’t waiste my time. You have all the proof you need within God’s creation and more than enough to disprove the already disproven theory of evolution. Darwin disproved it before he died. Most importantly, if God lied in Genisis, then how can you trust Him to tell the truth anywhere else in His word? Where do we get morals from if not God? If we don’t except the morals of God, then kaos will take over. We will have school shootings, people will murder their unborn children, out of control divorce rates and homosexuals running rampid. People will be focused on selfish behaviors. Nations will kill people that are too old to work and the disabled will be killed before they have a chance to live.
God made man a little lower then the angels,
man made man a little higher than the monkey.
Hmmmmm?
HankZ
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Orogeny
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Local floods does not equal global floods. That should be easy enough to understand.
I can’t go to Wisconsin to see the cave, so I did a Google search for Cave of the Mounds and jellyfish and found nothing. Perhaps you could post a photo of the jellyfish fossils in the cave.
There is no reason to think that they sat for thousands of years before being buried. That demonstrates a lack of understanding of geology.
I think won’t in this case means can’t.
Then present some rather than making general statements like that. I’ll make it easy for you. All I ask is that you present one piece of scientific evidence that disproves evolution.
No he didn’t.:nope:
I have never said that God lied in Genesis. In fact, I have always argued that Genesis is absolutely true.
None of those has anything to do with the story of Noah.
Cute. Is that what you have in place of a scientific argument
Peace
Tim
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HankZ
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Poof for you is not possible.
Luke 11:29;
“This generation is an evil generation. It seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Johah.”
2 Peter 2:5
“if He did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of rightiousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly.”
Do you believe science is a stronger source of truth then God’s word?
Showing you proof is pointless. If you do not believe God’s word, you will never believe me, and rightly so. God is the witness to this world’s past, present and future. He said He created the world in 6 days and I believe Him. To believe that He used evolution to create this world, is contrary to scripture.
We could go back and forth about Darwin, but yes, before he died he did refute his own theory. Did you know that Darwin’s grandfather had a man stuffed and placed in his livingroom. The book by Darwin,
Full Title:
On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.
Charles Darwin, M.A.,
Darwin makes a claim that Black people are the lowest form of man and barely human. The highest evolved man is Asian. Makes you proud to be a Darwinian, doesn’t it?
God made man a little lower then the angels,
Man makes man a little higher than the monkey.
Do not take everything at face value, do some digging before you buy into a belief you don’t know or understand.
HankZ
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Orogeny
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Au contraire. Proof is very powerful. Please provide it.
Nope.
More specifically hopeless since you have none.
Why, then, does the Church allow us to accept evolution and doesn’t require us to accept a literal interpretation of the Genesis account of creation?
From teh YEC site Creationontheweb.com (creationontheweb.com/content/view/2996/84/)
Which arguments should definitely not be used?
- ‘Darwin recanted on his deathbed’. Many people use this story, originally from a Lady Hope. However, it is almost certainly not true, and there is no corroboration from those who were closest to him, even from Darwin’s wife Emma, who never liked evolutionary ideas. Also, even if true, so what? If a prominent creationist recanted Creation, would that disprove it? There is no value to this argument whatever.
Note that this is from a site that believes just like you do.
Yep, Darwin had some ideas about race that were not correct. Means nothing with regard to natural selection now does it.
Well, Hank, the difference between you and I is that I actually have done some digging around. Literally.
Peace
Tim
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HankZ
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Tim,
I will not dispute truth for fantacy with you. You wanted proof, I showed you where Peter speaks of the flood. I could have taken you to Genisis, but you have rejected that already. You can call me a liar all day and it will make no difference, but you are treating God’s word as lies. You have been given abmple evidence from God’s own creation. You cannot have creation without a creator, just as you cannot have a painting without a painter.
Thanks for the conversation and I will be praying for you.
Serving HIm,
HankZ
Thank you for the conversation
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Orogeny
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I didn’t call you a liar.
This may shock you, but I see God in all of nature. I am a firm believer in God the creator. I have never said otherwise.
Peace
Tim
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HankZ
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This does shock me.
HankZ
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cpayne
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The whole problem with this is the original question. If I say the story of Noah is true and real, you still have no idea what I think concerning it.
As far as Scripture indicating the flood is world-wide (yes it does) and “world-wide” means exactly what you think it does (no it doesn’t), here is another scriptural reference. When Jesus was born, the command was given that “all the world” be taxed.
Who was taxed? In the Bible, what is “all the world”?
In other words, could you believe the biblical account and still not think of the flood as a global event? :yup: :yup: :yup:
As far as Scripture indicating the flood is world-wide (yes it does) and “world-wide” means exactly what you think it does (no it doesn’t), here is another scriptural reference. When Jesus was born, the command was given that “all the world” be taxed.
Who was taxed? In the Bible, what is “all the world”?
In other words, could you believe the biblical account and still not think of the flood as a global event? :yup: :yup: :yup:
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cpayne
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Between you and ME. Object of the preposition.
Signed, anal-retentive teacher cpayne
P.S. Do you ever grow weary of people questioning your Christian faith because of your views on prehistory? This is not a rhetorical question; I really want to know what you think about that.
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severntofall
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Hank, is there any proof of this event that cannot be found in the bible?
Fact of the matter is, the Arc had an interior of about 100,000 square feet. This had to be enough room from over 100,000 species of mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian and insect plus enough food to last for 150 days (if the tale in the bible is 100% accurate). Obviously not enought room for every pair (not to mention 7 of the clean animals and Noah’s family). Futhermore, if this flood did happen, how do you account for the fact that numerous ancient cultures existed before the flood and after? Also, how did Noah and his small family manage to repopulate the human species so quickly? Eight humans turned into millions (according to most historical estimates) almost overnight.
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HankZ
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Would God have put the biggest, oldest animals to begin again after the flood? I put more trust in God than that. I would take young animals if I was to be in God’s position. So the gigantic T-rex would have been no bigger then a big dog. The toy ark that most kids get to play with, having the girafes stuck through the top, is all to often thought of when looking at this story. 450 X 75 on each of the 3 floors. This is the equivilent of 34 1/2 football fields, more then enough room was left for food as well as other storage that would have been necessary. Answers in Genisis is an excelent source of biblical information on the flood.
HankZ
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