Story of Noah: Who believes it to be real?

[severntofall]

Would God have put the biggest, oldest animals to begin again after the flood? I put more trust in God than that. I would take young animals if I was to be in God’s position. So the gigantic T-rex would have been no bigger then a big dog. The toy ark that most kids get to play with, having the girafes stuck through the top, is all to often thought of when looking at this story. 450 X 75 on each of the 3 floors. This is the equivilent of 34 1/2 football fields, more then enough room was left for food as well as other storage that would have been necessary. Answers in Genisis is an excelent source of biblical information on the flood.
HankZ

Your math is way off. That is now where near the equivalent of 34.5 football fields, not even close. The Arc was 450 feet long (as long as 1.25 American Football fields) and 75 feet wide (less than half as wide as an American Football field). Even with three floors that’s just 101250 square feet (the is according to the Christian website creationtips.com/arksize.html)). That means over 200,000 residents and enough food to feed each of them for 150 days had no more than a few inches each to reside in for 150 days. These were not first class accommodations. Furthermore, a lot of room would have been taken up by the countless cages that would have been installed in the Arc to prevent the predators from eating the herbivores. Insects would have had to have been stored in boxes for their and everyones else’s safety. But even if this were possible (it’s not), there’s still no explanation as to how Noah and his family managed to repopulate the world in such a short time. This “flood” occurred around 2400BC. Even the most conservative estimates have the human population at 2000BC to be at least 24 million (24,000,000). Meaning that the Noah clan took the human population from 8 members to 24,000,000 in less than 400 years. That’s an unimaginable amount of growth. The population exploded by 3,000,000 times in 400 years. Probably a very good time to be a dude.

 

[HankZ]

Your math is way off. That is now where near the equivalent of 34.5 football fields, not even close. The Arc was 450 feet long (as long as 1.25 American Football fields) and 75 feet wide (less than half as wide as an American Football field). Even with three floors that’s just 101250 square feet (the is according to the Christian website creationtips.com/arksize.html)). That means over 200,000 residents and enough food to feed each of them for 150 days had no more than a few inches each to reside in for 150 days. These were not first class accommodations. Furthermore, a lot of room would have been taken up by the countless cages that would have been installed in the Arc to prevent the predators from eating the herbivores. Insects would have had to have been stored in boxes for their and everyones else’s safety. But even if this were possible (it’s not), there’s still no explanation as to how Noah and his family managed to repopulate the world in such a short time. This “flood” occurred around 2400BC. Even the most conservative estimates have the human population at 2000BC to be at least 24 million (24,000,000). Meaning that the Noah clan took the human population from 8 members to 24,000,000 in less than 400 years. That’s an unimaginable amount of growth. The population exploded by 3,000,000 times in 400 years. Probably a very good time to be a dude.

Wow! Now that I look, My math was waaaayyyyyyy, off. That’s embarrasing.

A trip to the Answers in Genesis website would be much better than I can explain these facts to you. Better yet would be a trip to the Creation Musium. They have got much more to offer than I do.

One thing that I believe you have missed is there were not carnavors before the flood, at least scripture does not lead me to believe there were. Man lived in harmony with all of God’s creation. Even if there were carnavors on the Ark, do you doubt God’s ability to take care of this so called problem. If you think of it from man’s prospective, of coarse it is impossible, but thankfully a witness was there to pass these facts on to us through His word and we are alowed to see it from God’s own prospective. As far as insects, they are not living, breathing, blood pumping creatures in the same regard as animals and could have easiliy survived on floating desbrey. If you have ever spent time in the south you know it is almost impossible to get rid of roaches.

Over crowding isn’t an issue. For example, only 2 dogs are needed, the dogs that are here today would have come from those 2 dogs on the Ark. Same with rats, elephants, cats, monkeys/gorilla/orangatangs, and so on. So the amount of animals needed on the Ark is a lot less than you would think. When these animals got on the Ark, they were young and much smaller than the full grown adult sized animals. This would leave lots of room for those who Noah preached to for the 120 years he took to build it. When God closed the ark, there was room for many more if only they would have trusted in God. Like them, today there are people who debate about all kinds of trivial matters when they sould be seeking first the kingdom of God.

Why do you question God? Is it because you want to find the truth or because you don’t want to believe and continue to live apart from God so that you can continue to be a slave to your sin? If God didn’t judge the world for it’s sin in the time of Noah, how do you know He exists? If God doesn’t exist as many people claim, then there is no sin and no need of a savior because there will be no Judgement day. They told Noah that God could not destroy the earth. Once the water started to climb, people believed but it was too late. There is coming a day, today, tomorrow, next week or 50 years from now you will die and you will face God and give an account. God has and may continue to give you opportunities to repent of your sins against Him , then one day He will say enough. Like the people of Noah’s day, you too will run out of time. Today is the day of salvation. Yesterday is gone and tomorrow may not come.
May you seek Him while He can still be found.
HankZ

 

[severntofall]

Wow! Now that I look, My math was waaaayyyyyyy, off. That’s embarrasing.

No biggie, it happens.

One thing that I believe you have missed is there were not carnavors before the flood, at least scripture does not lead me to believe there were. Man lived in harmony with all of God’s creation. Even if there were carnavors on the Ark, do you doubt God’s ability to take care of this so called problem. If you think of it from man’s prospective, of coarse it is impossible, but thankfully a witness was there to pass these facts on to us through His word and we are alowed to see it from God’s own prospective. As far as insects, they are not living, breathing, blood pumping creatures in the same regard as animals and could have easiliy survived on floating desbrey. If you have ever spent time in the south you know it is almost impossible to get rid of roaches.

So what did tigers and lions and bears and dogs, etc, ect. eat before the flood? Berries, ice cream, PB&J’s? I have to admit, I have never heard anyone claim that there were no carnivors on the planet before the flood. Wow. That’s some crazy stuff.
As far as insects surviving the flood, I can buy your logic there; however, this claim does not stand up against a litteral translation of the bible.
Gen 6 “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” Many insects travel on the ground, did God fail to kill them despite his claim that he would?

Gen 6 17 “I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish”. Again, God makes it clear, if you were not on that Arc, you were going to die.

Gen 7 “21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind”. Unless the bible is wrong, everything not on the Arc died. So all insects had to be on the boat if they survived.

Turns out that I was wrong about there being just 100,000 species. There are currently over 800,000 species of insect on the planet, they all had to be present. Every current species had to be on the arc, otherwise their species would have gone extinct in the flood, assuming that the bible is correct.

Why do you question God? Is it because you want to find the truth or because you don’t want to believe and continue to live apart from God so that you can continue to be a slave to your sin? If God didn’t judge the world for it’s sin in the time of Noah, how do you know He exists? If God doesn’t exist as many people claim, then there is no sin and no need of a savior because there will be no Judgement day. They told Noah that God could not destroy the earth. Once the water started to climb, people believed but it was too late. There is coming a day, today, tomorrow, next week or 50 years from now you will die and you will face God and give an account. God has and may continue to give you opportunities to repent of your sins against Him , then one day He will say enough. Like the people of Noah’s day, you too will run out of time. Today is the day of salvation. Yesterday is gone and tomorrow may not come.
May you seek Him while He can still be found.
HankZ

I actually like you. I appreciate you genuineness. You seem like a very honest person devoted to his faith. We disagree on all things religious I’m sure, but I find that to be no reason to dislike a person. You’re a good chap, and you do your faith justice from what little I can tell about you. Again, we disagree but you’re faith seems to give you comfort and there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[Orogeny]

This does shock me.
HankZ

And this does not surprise me.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

Between you and ME. Object of the preposition.

Signed, anal-retentive teacher cpayne

D’oh!! I knew that. No, really, I did.

P.S. Do you ever grow weary of people questioning your Christian faith because of your views on prehistory? This is not a rhetorical question; I really want to know what you think about that.

Interesting question.

Sometimes. Mostly, though, I have come to expect it. There is a mindset among (or is that amongst?) those who insist on a literal reading of scriptures that all scientists and those who accept science are athiests. I think that some people see science as such a huge threat to their faith that they have to reject even those who share the faith with them if the rejection of science isn’t part of the equation.

Peace

Tim

 

[HankZ]

Between you and ME. Object of the preposition.

Signed, anal-retentive teacher cpayne

P.S. Do you ever grow weary of people questioning your Christian faith because of your views on prehistory? This is not a rhetorical question; I really want to know what you think about that.

I do not question your faith, that is for God to do.
I question the fruit you display,
for example,

On day 1;
God seperated day from night…
The sun rose, the sun set, that was the first day.

How long did that take? 1 Day.

On Day 2;
God seperated the land from water…
the sun rose, the sun set, that was the 2nd day.

How long was day 2? 1 Day

This patten continues for all 6 days. So how long did creation take? 6 Days if you believe in the God of the bible. The fruit you displayed on this is that you say God knows less than the feable minded scientist who bumble through this life unable to scratch the surface of God’s creation.
.
Do you believe the God of the bible or have you created another god to fit your worldly way of thinking?

If you cannot take God at His word on how He started all life, then why bother living in a way that He tells you is best for you?

Would you not question me if I said murder is wrong,except when it is only the very young, very old, disabled or those who do not strengthen our society? This is what your doing by saying God is right except for… and then you fill in the blank.

My point is not to make you mad, but to make you think for yourself and search for truth yourself instead of relying on someone else to fill in the blanks.
HankZ

 

[Orogeny]

I do not question your faith, that is for God to do.

Ok, let’s see if that is true.

Do you believe the God of the bible or have you created another god to fit your worldly way of thinking?

Well, that didn’t take long, did it!

Hank, please read this carefully. This should answer any questions you have about my faith. This is what I believe with all my heart and soul.

I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Do you need any more detail? I am not a sola scripturist as you are.

Peace

Tim

 

[HankZ]

Ok, let’s see if that is true.Well, that didn’t take long, did it!

Hank, please read this carefully. This should answer any questions you have about my faith. This is what I believe with all my heart and soul.

I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Do you need any more detail? I am not a sola scripturist as you are.

Peace

Tim

I already know the Apostles Creed. What I am after is that you would be saved and know you are saved and have the peace that God offers. In other words, I know beyond a shodow of a doubt that Jesus has personally saved me from eternal damnation and want you to experience the same. My questions and statements are just my way of pointing to Him who saves. God uses the foolish and weak things of this world to show His mighty power. My hope is that as foolish and weak as I may sound to you, that God will use me to help you see His undeniable truths. Once God has saved someone, who is mighty enough to rip them from His grasp?
HankZ

 

[HankZ]

Ok, let’s see if that is true.Well, that didn’t take long, did it!

Hank, please read this carefully. This should answer any questions you have about my faith. This is what I believe with all my heart and soul.

I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Do you need any more detail? I am not a sola scripturist as you are.

Peace

Tim

Everything in this creed is found in scripture. Does that make it questionable?

 

[Orogeny]

I already know the Apostles Creed.

So we can drop the questions about which God I believe in?

What I am after is that you would be saved and know you are saved and have the peace that God offers.

I’m working on it. Believing that the story of Noah is a literal history isn’t necessary.

In other words, I know beyond a shodow of a doubt that Jesus has personally saved me from eternal damnation and want you to experience the same.

So, because Christ died for us and was raised from the dead, you can’t go to hell? Really?

Once God has saved someone, who is mighty enough to rip them from His grasp?
HankZ

Each and every one of us is capable of that. Reading the story of Noah as a non-literal story is not one of the ways we can do it.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

Everything in this creed is found in scripture. Does that make it questionable?

Interesting question since I told you that I believe all of it. Kinda hard to consider it questionable if I believe it, right? Or do you also doubt my word on that?

Peace

Tim

 

[HankZ]

So we can drop the questions about which God I believe in? I’m working on it. Believing that the story of Noah is a literal history isn’t necessary.So, because Christ died for us and was raised from the dead, you can’t go to hell? Really? Each and every one of us is capable of that. Reading the story of Noah as a non-literal story is not one of the ways we can do it.

Peace

Tim

Tim,
Is the death and resurection of Jesus literal or could that also be just a figurative story? What if He didn’t die on a cross or they threw 39 cats at Him instead of 39 lashes with a cats of nine tails and He fell in the middle of an intersection and they called it a cross road, which was later shortened to cross and He got up and went to His fathers house in town, but they changed it to died and rose again and went to His Fathers house in heaven. Why stop in Genisis? Jonah could have taken a big boat called “The Big Fish.” Maybe Moses threw a bunch of rocks into the Red Sea. Maybe God didn’t write the Ten Commandment with His own finger and Moses really did it. This is why you should believe that God judged the world as He warned them He would. He has warned us that He is going to judge this world a second time with fire. If He didn’t do it the first time, why would He tell the truth about doing it a second time.

No, you don’t have to take anything in God’s word as true or literal. I wouldn’t suggest it, but you have your own mind to make up.

I again plead with you, not for my sake, but for your own, search God’s words. What did Jesus mean about the blind leading the blind? Does the following blind man know the leader is also blind before they both fall into the ditch? Certainly not or he would not follow him. How do you know your leader is not also blind if you do not check to see if what they say is true? This is what He was saying to you, follow Him directly because He alone is the Way. He has left for us a fellowship of other Christians to gather with in corparate whorship of Him and to strengthen us through His body which is the followers of Christ also refered to as, “The Church.”
John 8:34-38,
34-Jesus replied to them, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35-Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36-So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37-I know that you are Abaham’s descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38- I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

There is nothing that can be worked out. Either you are a slave to sin or Jesus sets you free.
HankZ

 

[HankZ]

Interesting question since I told you that I believe all of it. Kinda hard to consider it questionable if I believe it, right? Or do you also doubt my word on that?

Peace

Tim

You don’t believe God’s word though. How can you pick and chose your biblical truths?
HankZ

 

[Orogeny]

Tim,
Is the death and resurection of Jesus literal or could that also be just a figurative story?

I thought you said you knew the Nicean (not Apostles) Creed. I guess you weren’t being honest.

No, you don’t have to take anything in God’s word as true or literal. I wouldn’t suggest it, but you have your own mind to make up.

Well, unlike you, I do take God’s word to be true.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

You don’t believe God’s word though.

Sorry, but I do. You are the one who said that it isn’t true, not me.

Peace

Tim

 

[HankZ]

Sorry, but I do. You are the one who said that it isn’t true, not me.

Peace

Tim

Do you believe God judged the whole world with a flood, saving only Noah and 7 others?
HankZ

 

[Orogeny]

Do you believe God judged the whole world with a flood, saving only Noah and 7 others?
HankZ

No.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

Hank,

Who did Cain marry in the Land of Nod? Who were the people who lived in the city he founded?

Peace

Tim

 

[HankZ]

No.

Peace

Tim

Tim,
I thought you claim to believe scripture, yet here you claim to not believe scripture. You can not walk the fence forever.
HankZ

 

[HankZ]

Hank,

Who did Cain marry in the Land of Nod? Who were the people who lived in the city he founded?

Peace

Tim

This has to be the easiest question you have asked,
Cain would have married a sister or a niece. It was not until the time of Moses, did God say not to marry closely related people.
Abraham was married to his sister as well as Issac. Due to sin’s destroying effects, we now have mutations in our cells which require us to marry people who are related further away so not to have children with mental and/or phsycal abnormallities.

I don’t think you believe he was married to a monkey and monkeys inhabbited the city of Nod. That doesn’t seem likely, does it?
HankZ.