Story of Noah: Who believes it to be real?

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This has to be the easiest question you have asked,
Cain would have married a sister or a niece. It was not until the time of Moses, did God say not to marry closely related people.
Abraham was married to his sister as well as Issac. Due to sin’s destroying effects, we now have mutations in our cells which require us to marry people who are related further away so not to have children with mental and/or phsycal abnormallities.

I don’t think you believe he was married to a monkey and monkeys inhabbited the city of Nod. That doesn’t seem likely, does it?
HankZ.
Wow. None of that is scriptural. Don’t you believe scripture?

According to Genesis, Cain and then Abel were born to Adam and Eve. Cain killed Abel and was exiled by God. AFTER all of that, Adam and Eve had more children.

Sorry, Hank. If you are going to be a literallist, you have to be consistent. There is NO mention of ANY other children until after Cain’s exile. In fact, Eve even says ““God has granted me more offspring in place of Abel,” she said, “because Cain slew him.””.

Now, if you can read other things into that story, who are you to lecture me on how I read scripture?

Peace

Tim
 
This has to be the easiest question you have asked,
Cain would have married a sister or a niece. It was not until the time of Moses, did God say not to marry closely related people.
Abraham was married to his sister as well as Issac. Due to sin’s destroying effects, we now have mutations in our cells which require us to marry people who are related further away so not to have children with mental and/or phsycal abnormallities.

I don’t think you believe he was married to a monkey and monkeys inhabbited the city of Nod. That doesn’t seem likely, does it?
HankZ.
There’s absolutely no mention in the bible of Adam and Eve having any daughters. That sin is pretty powerful stuff that it can cause genetic mutations. It pretty awesome how you were able to determine this without any evidence, not even the bible makes reference to it. So, that’s how it is now with Christians, someone brings up a point that discredits your position…make up evidence that nobody can prove or deny. This alows you to avoid comeing to the otherwise inevitable conclusion that the bible does in fact contain some errors.
 
There’s absolutely no mention in the bible of Adam and Eve having any daughters. That sin is pretty powerful stuff that it can cause genetic mutations. It pretty awesome how you were able to determine this without any evidence, not even the bible makes reference to it. So, that’s how it is now with Christians, someone brings up a point that discredits your position…make up evidence that nobody can prove or deny. This alows you to avoid comeing to the otherwise inevitable conclusion that the bible does in fact contain some errors.
Catholic Dogma is that all the human race came from Adam and Eve. Polygenism is not an option. Eve was created because Adam was alone.

Since God created Adam and Eve directly mutations in the first generations were not the issue they are now. At the time of Moses incest was outlawed by God for our own protection.

This is and has been Catholic teaching for a long long time.
 
Wow. None of that is scriptural. Don’t you believe scripture?

According to Genesis, Cain and then Abel were born to Adam and Eve. Cain killed Abel and was exiled by God. AFTER all of that, Adam and Eve had more children.

Sorry, Hank. If you are going to be a literallist, you have to be consistent. There is NO mention of ANY other children until after Cain’s exile. In fact, Eve even says ““God has granted me more offspring in place of Abel,” she said, “because Cain slew him.””.

Now, if you can read other things into that story, who are you to lecture me on how I read scripture?

Peace

Tim
What time line are you holding God to, His or your’s?
God’s word is truth. You cannot twist it or pervert it to mean something else. I stand by my statement. Cain did not marry a monkey.
HankZ
 
There’s absolutely no mention in the bible of Adam and Eve having any daughters. That sin is pretty powerful stuff that it can cause genetic mutations. It pretty awesome how you were able to determine this without any evidence, not even the bible makes reference to it. So, that’s how it is now with Christians, someone brings up a point that discredits your position…make up evidence that nobody can prove or deny. This alows you to avoid comeing to the otherwise inevitable conclusion that the bible does in fact contain some errors.
Genisis 5:4 Adam had other sons and daughters.
Can you show me 3 of your so called errors?
 
What time line are you holding God to, His or your’s?
His. I am reading Genesis literally. Isn’t that what you say we have to do?

Give me the scriptural passage that says what you claim. It sure isn’t in Genesis 4.

Peace

Tim
 
Genisis 5:4 Adam had other sons and daughters.
Can you show me 3 of your so called errors?
You are correct, after Seth they had other sons and daughters. I apologize for having forgot that. Not sure what you mean by “your so called errors”. I was referring to your claim that sin somehow mutated us genetically. It’s a claim for which there is zero evidence, purely conjecture on your part. It would be like me claiming that Adam and Eve were Apes and that their children were the first human and thus evolution is confirmed. Clearly wasn’t the case, but the evidence for this claim is just as abundant as the evidence for your claim (there is zero evidence for either). Worth pointing out, in order of it’s description in the bible, Cain mated with his wife before Adam and Eve gave birth to any additional children. This happened before the birth of Seth and the other un-named children. Perhaps the bible is not chronologically accurate.
 
Catholic Dogma is that all the human race came from Adam and Eve. Polygenism is not an option. Eve was created because Adam was alone.

Since God created Adam and Eve directly mutations in the first generations were not the issue they are now. At the time of Moses incest was outlawed by God for our own protection.

This is and has been Catholic teaching for a long long time.
I can buy that explaination. Doesn’t prove that the tale of Adam and Eve is true, but explains why incest wouldn’t have been as distructive back then.
 
What time line are you holding God to, His or your’s?
God’s word is truth. You cannot twist it or pervert it to mean something else. I stand by my statement. Cain did not marry a monkey.
HankZ
Hank,
Again I appreciate your dedication to your beliefs, though I agree with almost none of them. I would ask, do you have any evidence for any of this that cannot be found in the bible? On the off chance that you respond that the bible is all the proof you need, can you explain such an assertion?
thanks
 
Hank,
Again I appreciate your dedication to your beliefs, though I agree with almost none of them. I would ask, do you have any evidence for any of this that cannot be found in the bible? On the off chance that you respond that the bible is all the proof you need, can you explain such an assertion?
thanks
Do you believe Plato was a real person?
 
Probably the earth Was hit by a terrible Cataclysm. Imagine the force of a meteor the size of New Jersey hitting the earth about 65 million years ago. Has anyone here not played billiard ball? The earths crust that we live on is only about 40 miles deep and literally floats on liquid rock and metal. Like an orange peel sets over the main bulk of the orange but is easily separated from it.
Several basins and areas around the world have been formed by meteors eons before history of mankind even started. Do a Goggle search on the Arizona Crater. About the time of Cro-Magnum man when the Neanderthal begin to disappear, a great Cataclysm happened. Saber-tooth tigers disappeared as well as the Giant Wholly Mammoth. The Arctic attests to Giant Tropical ferns being twisted like pretzels and stirred in with all kinds of broken animals stuffed into caves. Mammoth Elephants and their young being Quick Frozen so that the meat was still edible when modern man dug them out of the tundra in Russia just a few years ago. Their bellies full of fresh vegetation they didn’t even have time to digest.

Talk about an epic story! It is estimated that 85% of all life - plant and animal was wiped off the earth. If it wasn’t drowned, it was boiled in lava heated ocean water.

Talk about an epic of Biblical Proportions. The few humans left who were to become Modern Man had an oral tradition that would last through time. Thus the story of Gilgamesh and Noah and the Arc several hundred years later. And epic tales of the North American Indians about a Giant Flood that covered the earth.

What tales were still being told when Ancient Civilization began by tilling the soil and settling down to farm and build cities just 10,000 years ago? If you took the history of the earth - about 4 billion years and compared it to the height of the Empire State Building, The complete time of humanity - and most other life - would sit at the very top of the building. The thickness of a postage stamp. A lot of water has flown under the bridge…]

Just my opinion for what it’s worth.
Robin
 
I do not question your faith, that is for God to do.
I question the fruit you display,
for example,

On day 1;
God seperated day from night…
The sun rose, the sun set, that was the first day.

How long did that take? 1 Day.

On Day 2;
God seperated the land from water…
the sun rose, the sun set, that was the 2nd day.

How long was day 2? 1 Day

This patten continues for all 6 days. So how long did creation take? 6 Days if you believe in the God of the bible. The fruit you displayed on this is that you say God knows less than the feable minded scientist who bumble through this life unable to scratch the surface of God’s creation.
.
Do you believe the God of the bible or have you created another god to fit your worldly way of thinking?

If you cannot take God at His word on how He started all life, then why bother living in a way that He tells you is best for you?

Would you not question me if I said murder is wrong,except when it is only the very young, very old, disabled or those who do not strengthen our society? This is what your doing by saying God is right except for… and then you fill in the blank.

My point is not to make you mad, but to make you think for yourself and search for truth yourself instead of relying on someone else to fill in the blanks.
HankZ
Wow. I ignore a thread for a couple of days, and I miss out on about four pages of material. Well, let me backtrack to this post.

Dear HankZ: I am sorry, but your post reveals you do not believe the Bible. You say:

“On day 1;
God seperated day from night…
The sun rose, the sun set, that was the first day.”

Then you go to day two:

"On Day 2;
God seperated the land from water…
the sun rose, the sun set, that was the 2nd day.

How long was day 2? 1 Day"

Then you stop by simply saying that “the pattern continues.”

No; on Day 4 God created the sun. So evidently, by a literalist reading, the sun did not rise and set on the previous days. Your statement directly contradicts God’s Word.

Furthermore, if there is no sun to rise and set, how long is a day?

P.S. According to the Bible, at the time of Cain’s murder of Abel, there were already cities and populations of people in the area. That’s why Cain was concerned that others would kill him to avenge Abel.

I’m not questioning your faith OR your fruit. But you might want to reconsider some of the Scriptural interpretations you have chosen.
 
There’s absolutely no mention in the bible of Adam and Eve having any daughters.

Is that meant as Biblical support for gay marriage 😉 ? It could be read that way 🙂 .​

FWIW, Gen. 5 does say Adam had “sons and daughters” after Seth. But as the story is fiction, they have no more bearing on the marital goings-on of Cain than do the (equally fictitious) generations of hobbits in “The Lord of the Rings”.
That sin is pretty powerful stuff that it can cause genetic mutations. It pretty awesome how you were able to determine this without any evidence, not even the bible makes reference to it. So, that’s how it is now with Christians, someone brings up a point that discredits your position…make up evidence that nobody can prove or deny. This alows you to avoid comeing to the otherwise inevitable conclusion that the bible does in fact contain some errors.
 
Probably the earth Was hit by a terrible Cataclysm. Imagine the force of a meteor the size of New Jersey hitting the earth about 65 million years ago. Has anyone here not played billiard ball? The earths crust that we live on is only about 40 miles deep and literally floats on liquid rock and metal. Like an orange peel sets over the main bulk of the orange but is easily separated from it.
Several basins and areas around the world have been formed by meteors eons before history of mankind even started. Do a Goggle search on the Arizona Crater. About the time of Cro-Magnum man when the Neanderthal begin to disappear, a great Cataclysm happened. Saber-tooth tigers disappeared as well as the Giant Wholly Mammoth. The Arctic attests to Giant Tropical ferns being twisted like pretzels and stirred in with all kinds of broken animals stuffed into caves. Mammoth Elephants and their young being Quick Frozen so that the meat was still edible when modern man dug them out of the tundra in Russia just a few years ago. Their bellies full of fresh vegetation they didn’t even have time to digest.

Talk about an epic story! It is estimated that 85% of all life - plant and animal was wiped off the earth. If it wasn’t drowned, it was boiled in lava heated ocean water.

Talk about an epic of Biblical Proportions. The few humans left who were to become Modern Man had an oral tradition that would last through time. Thus the story of Gilgamesh and Noah and the Arc several hundred years later. And epic tales of the North American Indians about a Giant Flood that covered the earth.

Do the Indian tales refer to the earth as ***they ***knew it, or as we know it ? An American Indian tale, even if it preserves memories of what is now Siberia, is unlikely to include the Faroe Islands or the Falklands, or Scotland, or New Zealand, in what its authors know of the world. If it does, then it is too recent to be of any value as evidence of an ancient & truly world-wide flood. It’s vanishingly unlikely that the Hebrews meant to include Scotland, Siberia, or Oceania in what they understood by “the whole earth” either. What Genesis refers to, was probably no more than the sort of inundation that causes misery for Bangladesh every few years; Israel’s world was not very large, even as late as the first century BC. For Ezekiel, the Caucasus - the abode of “Gog” and “Magog” - is the back of beyond; so there is no likelihood that his ancestors centuries earlier had any better idea of the true extent of the earth.​

What tales were still being told when Ancient Civilization began by tilling the soil and settling down to farm and build cities just 10,000 years ago? If you took the history of the earth - about 4 billion years and compared it to the height of the Empire State Building, The complete time of humanity - and most other life - would sit at the very top of the building. The thickness of a postage stamp. A lot of water has flown under the bridge…]

Just my opinion for what it’s worth.

Robin

There was no cataclysm - though funnily enough, kataklusmos is the word the Septuagint uses in its translation of Genesis to render Hebrew mabbul, “flood” 🙂

There was no cataclysm in the post’s sense - Genesis says nothing of one, so to posit one, is to read into the text what is not there. Which is unsound as a method. If we do that, then we can read anything else into it that we think we need to, or that we care to; but that leads to not reading the text at all, but only our own fancies 😦 - & that is something Fundamentalism does all the time, which is one of the reasons it is (to put it mildly) an unsatisfactory guide to understanding what the Bible means.

Fundamentalism doesn’t interpret the text - it makes connections between the text OTOH, &, OTO, ways of avoiding any appearance of error in the text - not between text & meaning, as it should. (The Bible has a sacramental aspect as well, but that is of no help as a means of interpretation: & this thread is about interpreting part of the Bible.) This is “intertextuality” with a vengeance. Fundamentalism displays a callous disregard for the text as such: without knowing what that text is we cannot know what that part of the book - or of any book, Biblical or not - is saying. If Fundamentalism got to grips with the text, it would not be Fundamentalist; it would be listening to what the texts have to say, as the critics do. The Bible is too valuable to be abandoned to the excruciating tortures the Fundamentalists make it suffer; it needs to be rescued from the numberless torments they inflict upon it.

BTW - an arc is a line in mathematics (IIRC :o) ; the boaty thing people have in mind is an ark. And while “Magnum” was a highly watchable TV series, Cro-Magnon man is unlikely to have watched it (or even to have drunken a magnum of wine) 😃
  • arc = a curve
  • Noah’s ar**k **= tebah in Hebrew
  • The ark of the covenant = aron
  • the “boat” of the infant Moses = tebah
    Hope that helps 🙂
 

Do the Indian tales refer to the earth as ***they ***knew it, or as we know it ? An American Indian tale, even if it preserves memories of what is now Siberia, is unlikely to include the Faroe Islands or the Falklands, or Scotland, or New Zealand, in what its authors know of the world. If it does, then it is too recent to be of any value as evidence of an ancient & truly world-wide flood. It’s vanishingly unlikely that the Hebrews meant to include Scotland, Siberia, or Oceania in what they understood by “the whole earth” either. What Genesis refers to, was probably no more than the sort of inundation that causes misery for Bangladesh every few years; Israel’s world was not very large, even as late as the first century BC. For Ezekiel, the Caucasus - the abode of “Gog” and “Magog” - is the back of beyond; so there is no likelihood that his ancestors centuries earlier had any better idea of the true extent of the earth.​

There was no cataclysm - though funnily enough, kataklusmos is the word the Septuagint uses in its translation of Genesis to render Hebrew mabbul, “flood” 🙂

There was no cataclysm in the post’s sense - Genesis says nothing of one, so to posit one, is to read into the text what is not there. Which is unsound as a method. If we do that, then we can read anything else into it that we think we need to, or that we care to - but that leads to not reading the text at all, but only our own fancies 😦 (something Fundamentalism does all the time, which is one of the reasons it is (to put it mildly) an unsatisfactory guide to understanding what the Bible means.

Fundamentalism doesn’t interpret the text - it makes connections between the text OTOH, & ways of avoiding any appearance of error in the text OTO. But it displays a callous disregard for the text as such: without knowing what that text is we cannot know what that part of the book - or of any book, Biblical or not - is saying. If Fundamentalism got to grips with the text, it would not be Fundamentalist; it would be listening to what the texts have to say, as the critics do. The Bible is too valuable to be abandoned to the excruciating tortures the Fundamentalists make it suffer; it needs to be rescued from the numberless torments they inflict upon it.

BTW - an arc is a line in mathematics (IIRC :o) ; the boaty thing people have in mind is an ark. And while “Magnum” was a highly watchable TV series, Cro-Magnon man is unlikely to have watched it (or even to have drunken a magnum of wine) 😃
  • arc = a curve
  • Noah’s ar**k **= tebah in Hebrew
  • The ark of the covenant = aron
  • the “boat” of the infant Moses = tebah
    Hope that helps 🙂
Flood Stories from Around the World
 
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