Story: "Prominent clergy are duking it out on social media over Joe Biden calling himself Catholic."

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FiveLinden said:
So you have linked to a video saying that ‘no one has a right to freedom of speech if it is going to detract from the Catholic Church’ and that there is ‘no right to non-Catholic worship’.

The video claims authority from Popes for this.
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That is simply incorrect. The Church supports religious freedom, and does not define that as only the freedom to be Catholic. Among other places, that teaching is set forth in Dignitatis Humanae.

Freedom of Speech is less explicitly set out in Church teaching, but is consistent with the Church’s overall teaching on freedom of will and freedom of conscience.
 
Checks and balances have been exercised since Trump became President? Seriously? Trump has been restrained in his powers by checks and balances and the continuation of three co-equal government bodies since 1787 (When the Constitution was ratified) compared to other Presidents? It’s not like the Republican-controlled Senate as a body or the majority individual Republican Senators, save for one. Mitt Romney, would dare to counter Trump. Same goes for House Republicans. They are deathly afraid of Trump and know that they will be publically attacked by Trump and his confederates if they oppose him in anyway, whether by their votes in the Congress or if they were to criticize him when they speak in public. They know that if they did that that would be political suicide and Trump’s supporters would vote them out of office and that they would be “primaried” by Trump. Checks and balances is only a theory now. The Republican Party is Republican in name only; it is now the Party of Trump. People may disagree, but it’s the fact.
 
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You may be right. But your argument is not with me, a non-believing observer of what Catholics say, but with the Catholic who said it: @(name removed by moderator).
 
aroosi said:
Bishop Tobin comment was pretty mean. A Catholic not in good standing is still Catholic.
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Not disagreeing with you, but it is an interesting question. The person that catechized me said that if I did not agree with doctrine, I was a Catholic in name only. At the same time there is the old saying "once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

I guess it is a good question for an apologist.
 
That’s why the wall is fully built, all immigrants are already deported, the USMCA was instantly ratified, and all other parts of Trump’s agenda were instantly put in place, right?

Give me a break.
 
It seems the concern of some Protestant leaders at the time of John F. Kennedy were correct. It appears that many Catholics believe that Church teaching should dominate any society in which Catholics reside. Are Catholics able to truly coexist peacefully in societies that tolerate a diversity of ideologies and worldviews? If a Catholic politician must necessarily consult his faith in all matters, he has cancelled his ability to reflect constituents that are not Catholic. Does the Catholic Church want to establish a theocracy in the United States and other countries?
 
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glencor63 said:
If a Catholic politician must necessarily consult his faith in all matters, he has cancelled his ability to reflect constituents that are not Catholic.
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That’s like saying Democrats cannot represent non-Democrats. Officials are elected to make decisions for a group of people, typically expected to do what’s best based on their morals. One cannot accurately reflect the views and beliefs of everyone you serve.
 
glencor63 said:
It seems the concern of some Protestant leaders at the time of John F. Kennedy were correct.
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This has come up before. The anti-Catholic prejudice of American Protestants has re-awakened in some Catholics. They have adopted the Rome will rule ideology used against Al Smith, ignoring the practical and intellectual examinations of the idea over the last 100 years.

It is quite odd to see people quoting Pius IX’s Syllabus of Errors, as if a defense of the Papal States justifies their political position. They want their position to be rejected by the majority, even as they claim “God“ is on their side and try to convince others.
 
I believe in the strict separation of church and state and freedom of religion.
 
The criticism of Joe Biden and other Catholic politicians is that they have betrayed their Catholic faith by being
Pro-Choice. They argue that whether to have an abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and her faith. Many Pro-Life Catholics argue that they MUST defend Church teaching on abortion. This hearkens back to the argument that Catholic politicians will take orders from the Bishop. Do you see the conundrum?
 
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That’s a common misunderstanding.

Faith is not something that exists outside of a person, the way that socioeconomic status or choice of job or worldview does. Faith is inside a person and faith informs all of those and more.

A homeless man panhandling can have faith just as much as a billionaire. A President can have faith just as much as a homemaker. A radical Democrat can have faith (even if he doesn’t recognize it as such) as much as a radical Republican (ditto).

And while we have a Catholic Christian faith, as opposed to a Protestant Christian faith, a Jewish faith, a Muslim faith, or even a ‘spiritual’ faith or an atheistic ‘faith’, NONE of those ‘faiths’ in and of themselves, not even the atheistic ones, should make it impossible for the person of that faith not to be able to coexist with others, nor does it ‘cancel the ability to reflect constituents who are not ‘of the faith’.
 
On an issue like abortion whose theology should prevail? Many religions do not consider abortion to be murder. Even some Christian denominations don’t regard abortion as an urgent moral issue like the Catholic Church. Whose theology should decide the laws of a diverse, pluralistic society?
 
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Abortion is not an ‘ideological issue’ or theological issue.

It is a human rights issue.

Plenty of people for centuries did not consider slavery evil. And yet people defied ‘the law’, fought and died not for an ‘ideological issue’ but so that other humans could be free .
 
Pro-gay Jesuit celebrity priest Fr. James Martin pushed back, telling Bp. Tobin, “Mr. Biden is a baptized Catholic. Thus, he is a Catholic.”*
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Biden belongs to the second largest religious group in the United States: lapsed Catholics.

The bishops have been arguing about excommunicating Catholic politicians who support abortion rights for decades. Time to act, your eminences.
 
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glencor63 said:
They argue that whether to have an abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and her faith.
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A Catholic with conscience formed according to Church teaching rightly sees this as a ludicrous statement. Abortion is, according to the Church, murder. Full stop. Always has been, although for a while it was unclear when the human being was ensouled. We now know that, from conception to natural death, the human being exists and is alive. To say that abortion is a “personal choice” is, to a Catholic of good conscience, the literal equivalent of “murder is a personal choice and we can’t outlaw it.” Pro-choice Catholics are wrong. They either ignore the Church on this issue or don’t know enough about it to know that their stance is incorrect.

In addition, abortion is not a theological issue. If it were, no atheist would be pro-life. Since this is incorrect, so is your statement. It’s an issue of human rights, and if we as a society are willing to extend rights to all, or be hypocrites and draw arbitrary lines to define humanity.
 
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