Strange Fantasies

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’ve actually been having them for a long time now but I’m not sure if I’ve ever had mentioned them before on these threads.

Now like all fallible human beings, I’ve had my share of sexual fantasies (usually the um… 2D variety >_<;; ). However whenever I find myself falling into one of them, I find my mind has a strange sort of counter reaction to them (automatic too). You can say its like a beast that violently snorts and shakes its head when it senses something tampering with its senses. The strange thing is that this “beast”… also breathes fire. >:\

Here’s how it goes. Every time I start thinking sexual stuff, my mind suddenly blurs away such thoughts and they get replaced by a different sort of fantasy… a crazy, impossible, and most of all violent fantasy. Most of these fantasies may seem childish or geeky to some but I really do have a sort of desire for them that’s even stronger than my libido. Some of them involve me knocking away thugs with an unseen force, building up a terrifying fire in my hands and then shooting it out (Sometimes I even imagine it to be hellfire! ), doing gun kata moves, and blowing stuff up with just a mere gesture (usually a classic finger snap). Stuff like action scenes and intense music like battle themes or rock songs only add up to the feeling.

Other times, when I feel so sick with myself for having stupid sex fantasies, I imagine myself turning into some sort of half-demon and have the other half take the form of the perverted imp who keeps putting this dirty stuff in my head. I then take that half and beat/burn the life out of it in my imagined form.

In short, I seem to prefer fantasizing a lot more about having power instead of sex. It just strikes me as quite curious to be honest. This is despite the fact that the closest thing these fantasies can get to being real is if I write 'em out and publish them in my stories.

Now why am I talking about this? Well its cuz it concerns two things.

First, I’ve been observing a certain line of thought here that seems to disapprove thoughts of power, aggression, and “pumping” up. One poster went as far as to equate it to sexual depravity and carnal behavior. Frankly though, I cannot see how this adds up. What exactly is so abhorrent about great power? How about dreaming of having such power, much less power you know you’ll never have? (Unless, God’s got some crazy good reason to actually give them to ya.) Whose dignity is being violated? What crime have I committed against the Natural Order to have it merit the same gravity as sexual sin?

Secondly, I’m simply curious about this strange thing about myself. Often times I’ve read people’s struggles with purity or how the saints had knee-jerk counteractions to sexual impurity by means of ardent prayer, intense vigilance with their eyes, and constant modesty. Now when I compare myself to these people, I cannot help but feel… different. Take note though I am still faaar from being cleansed of lust (I’d explain why but that’s another thread). However, I am under the assumption that as far as the mere goal of a lust-free mind goes, the prayerful crowd dream of a saintly life devoted to prayer and spiritual works that shields them. Me on the other hand? I’m more content with seeing myself as a guy who could spend all his time honing whatever combat skill/strange powers he has while his peers go waste themselves in strip clubs and pornography.

Whenever I imagine certain saint as a character, I see a person dressed in white robes praying in a meek voice. When I imagine myself as a character, I see myself as an anti-hero complete with a dark, grim look and an “evil” laugh.

Any thoughts on these strange fantasies?

 

[JRKH]

Fantasizing about and coveting such power is a form of Pride and Greed. Two of the deadly sins. Coveting such power goes against the virtue of humility.

To me this sounds like the Evil One attempting to trick you by overplaying the devise you use to stay away from impure thoughts. Since he cannot get you in sexual sin, he gets you in aggressive, violent sin.

Frankly, knowing you as I do, this type of temptation is not suprising. The use of violent video games and the like only enhances and promotes this type of temptation.

My advise is to reject such thoughts just as you reject the sexual thoughts.

Peace
James

 

[Monica4316]

In Catholicism, a desire for power is seen as a negative thing, because it shows a hidden pride… I think we all have a desire for power in some sort of way

but what strikes me more about your post is …I’m not sure how to say this, but almost a fascination with what is dark or evil. It’s like you’re drawn to the evil characters. I’ve noticed this in our society in general… but I think that evil is really boring and monotonous and good is much more interesting. For example, if I were writing about two characters, and one was an “anti-hero” and dark, and the other was the saintly one, I think I would have much more fun writing about the saintly one… because all evil characters are basically the same. Evil is really not interesting when you really examine it in detail.

This quote from a book I have sort of illustrates this point, it also explains why we have a fascination with darkness. This is something that actually happened to someone:

"One afternoon at the beginning of Holy Week, having made a stop in Thessaloniki, I was by myself in our home there, when, suddenly, my surroundings vanished. There were no images to be seen, sounds to be heard, or objects to be touched. My five senses ceased functioning. It was as though the light switch had been flicked and the room plunged into total darkness.

My mind turned its full attention to a spiritual realm that it found utterly riveting and captivating. In one direction, I saw a soft but intense light - brilliant yet gentle. In the other direction, I saw a thick, cavernous darkness. Initially, I turned my attention towards the awesome, yet fearful, darkness. It made my flesh crawl, but I was overcome by curiosity, the desire to understand what it was. My mind advanced towards the darkness, and I began to sense the magnitude of its negation. The deeper I went, the greater this negation became, and the thicker the darkness. It had a vast power and, if I dare put it this way, a certain grandeur. It represented a negative perspective on reality, unhesitatingly extending into reality as depth, even as the light stretched infinitely into reality as height. On one side, there was immense love; on the other, immense hatred. The light was overflowing with unconditional altruism, while the darkness pulled away in utter self-centeredness.

Though I couldn’t see into the darkness, I could feel the presence of souls in it, leaping about and shrieking with insane, wicked laughter as they were pulled deeper and deeper into the ocean of darkness, until the sound of their voices disappeared altogether. Frightened by this savage madness, I headed towards the light, seeking its protection. Just reaching its outskirts, I felt the relief of having been rescued from a grave danger.

Although I didn’t advance very far at all into the darkness, I was able to feel the depths of its evil ocean. I could understand the very essence of the enticing power of sin to tempt, as well as its laughable powerlessness, utter dependence, and shadowy nonexistence. The darkness, I saw, is fearsome when it has won you over, but it is absurd and feeble when you reject it - it cannot defeat even a small child if he does not fall on his own. In the same way, I didn’t advance far into the light - only, so to speak, skating its edge - but even there I felt confident and comforted by a fullness of life, peace, joy, and knowledge. The light loved me greatly in spite of my unworthiness and granted me its gifts, gifts I never dreamed existed.

At this point, I realized that the light created the world and every living being. The existential space in which each person dwells is itself a creation fashioned by the light, which also fills and permeates these spaces. One being decided to stay outside of the existential space created by the light, thus creating a sort of space for itself, though only by denying the light, turning from it, driving it away. The darkness has no existence of its own, but only in that it denies the ever-existing and sovereign light. That is to say, the existence of the darkness would have been impossible without the existence of the light; though the light had no need of the darkness for existence, for its existence is self-sufficient. The light respected the free decision of its creation to reject it, and so kept its distance. In this way, a dark existential space made its appearance - the darkness, in this sense, became a reality.

The darkness resulted from the inclination of a conscious being, called satan, who chose such a form of existence though he had no reason to. And this denial made the darkness a reality. Although this act of denial may have resembled God’s act of creation, it was not creation, but an imitation of creation performed in reverse. That is, the devil tried to behave like God, but, since he did not have the ability to create on his own, he was only capable of denying God’s creation, energies, light, and grace. He pulled away from the very borders of reality and made non-existence a way of being, thus “creating” death and darkness. For, until that time, there was neither death nor darkness, but al things were filled with light and life.

Just as the light’s love wishes to unite all things, being the source of existence and creation, so the hatred of the darkness wants to divide all things, being the source of nonexistence and destruction. Just as the light extends out into the infinite beyond, so the darkness seems to extend into its infinite beyond. Just as there is a grandeur about the simple, yet infinite light of God, with all His attributes and energies, so there is a certain grandeur about the blunt, yet apparently infinite darkness of the devil, with all his deep-rooted and ferocious self-destructiveness, full of a stubborn and manic rage."

• “The Gurus, the Young Man, and Elder Paisios” by Dionysios Farasiotis

 

[Monica4316]

I think it’s easy to see darkness as something that has grandeur, something tragic/poetic that is interesting to think about… but in reality, it’s not like that, in reality it’s what the author said: shadowy, …almost lame. It’s the goodness that is truly interesting. If we always think about and fantasize about darkness, that can’t be good for us because our thoughts do change us. If we think about goodness, we’ll become more like the goodness, if we think about the darkness too much, that could present a temptation. I know I’ve seen this in my own life. That’s why it’s such a good idea to meditate on Christ, on the Passion, on the events of the Bible, because that transforms our minds so we don’t love evil anymore. Sin is loving evil.

Hope that helped… God bless!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Fantasizing about and coveting such power is a form of Pride and Greed. Two of the deadly sins. Coveting such power goes against the virtue of humility.

Ah but power, unlike sex, is morally neutral. Sex is only good within marriage and thus anything sexual related done outside is adultery, a mortal sin.

What is so sinful about power? King David had power when he ascended the throne. King Solomon possessed the same great power through his sharp wisdom.

And humility? Hah, don’t think that is not subject to its own corruption. I’ve seen people use it as an excuse to become doormats.

Since he cannot get you in sexual sin, he gets you in aggressive, violent sin.

Hold up now. That’s a rather judgmental exaggeration. Who said I acted violent? I know more muscle-bound idiots who are more violent and dangerous than this scrawny writer. The only worse thing that such fantasies brought me was that they’re pretty addictive when I don’t control myself. That and maybe my temper but I’ve always had that loong before I watched/played anything violent.

 

[beckycmarie]

LW, you’ve probably heard the phrase “garbage in, garbage out.” What we constantly feed our minds with influences us deeply, to the point it becomes what we think about, talk about, dream about, etc.

If one is constantly feeding his soul with violent, sexual online games, animation, and other “entertainment” that reward the “hero” for “power, aggression, and pumping up,” is it any wonder that one’s thoughts would be dominated by these things? If the games are role-playing games, the effect on one’s personality will be even more pronounced.

Perhaps there is an attachment here, possibly an addiction, that needs to be addressed. What is constantly on our mind and on our lips reveals what captivates our heart. If we are filling ourselves up with garbage, is there any wonder there is little room for Christ?

:twocents:

 

[TheQuestioner]

I know a little of what you are going through. The stage in your faith is quite similar to mine. You my friend, suffer from Acedia. You do not wish grace from God. That is not to say you don’t love God, but the grace which you deny specifically is the grace of God’s gift of Peace.

You seem to think that you are somehow more badass than God’s saints. You’ve been heavily influenced by the media (as I was) to believe that anyone who adhere’s to God in anyway they can, and makes a great effort to do so, so much that it pours out physically, is a weakling and a wimp. Well…St. Moses the Black took on a whole group of bandits on his own. St. Joan of Arc was the youngest person to lead an army. St. Olaf conquered his pagan opponents and St. Morris was a Roman Soldier.

But what makes them strong was their commitment to God. Joan died while being burned at the stake because she would not renounce her faith in God’s direction of her actions, St. Moses died while defending his monastery, St. Olaf spread Christianity wherever he could, and St. Morris refused to attack Christians and so was put to death.

Your concept of strength, just like mine was (and still is a little) is very worldly in a sense. You adhere to the world’s definition of strength. That is, a show of power and might in a physical sense. But that isn’t strength, not really anyway. St. Maximilian Kolbe took the place of a stranger at a concentration camp and was starved to death in his place. That requires great strength as well. St. Bartholomew was skinned alive for spreading the gospel. That is great strength in the Lord. St. Sebastian was a Roman soldier who spread the word of Christ, was shot full of arrows because of it, preserved alive by God and still continued to spread the Word after that, and was then beaten to death. St. John de Brebouf was killed at the hands of enemy natives while trying to spread the word of God in Canada, and one of the other Canadian Martyrs was killed for giving a native child the sign of the Cross in blessing while he was under captivity.

Joan is as strong as Moses, who is as strong as John, who is as strong as Morris, who is as strong as Maximilian, who is as strong as Sebastian. Strength does not come from physical prowess, but from recognizing your weakness in the Lord, and depending on God to help make it up. Because God is all strength, all might, all power, all force, you truly become strong. Try this. Challenge one of your juice head friends to a weightlifting contest. You’ll lose. Then challenge them to go to Mass every weekend and 2 weekday Masses for 3 months and not miss a single one. They may not even dare to take the challenge.

God’s peace is not weak, God’s love is not puny. In God’s peace is all strength, and all excitement. God’s peace is not boring, and in His love is all power. If you wanted to, and this is sometimes encouraged (it worked for me), you can try to view your spiritual life as a battle. Look at how much you struggle and lose. Then look at these Saints I mentioned. Then you’ll see them for the giants that they are, the masters of battle that God had made them to be. But integral to this is the Peace of God. I’ll pray for you.

And as for the media thing, well, download the Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War demo to get a sense of how someone can be religious and strong, especially by looking at the Space Marines (this is by no means an approved Catholic thing to do, just something that helped me get a sense of the reality of the spiritual battle, i’m sure some other posters might try this out and yell at me for suggesting it to you ). I think you may find it interesting.

 

[TheQuestioner]

becky, I’ll say it before Lost says it. There is nothing wrong with role playing games that let you pump up or become more powerful. If you train hard you get stronger, this is a basic system of effort and reward much like real life, and so that in and of itself cannot be condemned.

Lost, there is also another issue in your fantasies. They are not intended for evil, this is plain. However, in the last one you mentioned, I noticed that your fantasies are a way of simply punishing yourself for the evil you thought of or were tempted in. They do not really stem from a wish for power, but from a reliance on your own self to correct and improve yourself and get away from sin, and this is bad for another reason. I have something of a similar situation. Though lately this has been changing. The solution is to recognize that there is not an evil “side” to you. The evil is something you do, not something a part of you does. That being the case, pray to God to help you, say sorry for your sins and thank him that it was not worse, and move on. You cannot get rid of sin on your own, you need God’s grace. Without Him you would only descend further into darkness. Rely on Him and don’t rush Him, because you’ll only be stifling His work.

 

[Monica4316]

Ah but power, unlike sex, is morally neutral. Sex is only good within marriage and thus anything sexual related done outside is adultery, a mortal sin.

What is so sinful about power? King David had power when he ascended the throne. King Solomon possessed the same great power through his sharp wisdom.

And humility? Hah, don’t think that is not subject to its own corruption. I’ve seen people use it as an excuse to become doormats.

Hold up now. That’s a rather judgmental exaggeration. Who said I acted violent? I know more muscle-bound idiots who are more violent and dangerous than this scrawny writer. The only worse thing that such fantasies brought me was that they’re pretty addictive when I don’t control myself. That and maybe my temper but I’ve always had that loong before I watched/played anything violent.

it’s not power that is evil, but the desire for power.

Keep in mind that Christ, the only one who has REAL power, and is the King of Kings, became as a servant and died on the Cross. The devil does not have any real power, but desires it. Christ does not desire it, He gave everything He had to save His creatures that hated Him.

We should try to imitate Christ… not the evil one. We shouldn’t* desire *power. The Saints, who have real glory in Heaven (rather than the transitory ‘glory’ on earth) didn’t seek it, they sought the Cross and to love God.

Jesus said, those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

I’m just as guilty in this way… I hope my post doesn’t sound judgemental. But I think it’s important to look at what Christ said and to seek to follow His words. He is God and knows all truth.

God bless

 

[Monica4316]

Your concept of strength, just like mine was (and still is a little) is very worldly in a sense. You adhere to the world’s definition of strength. That is, a show of power and might in a physical sense. But that isn’t strength, not really anyway.

Great point!

I was thinking about this… when was Christ the strongest? when did He show God’s glory in the greatest way?

Everything He did glorified the Father more than we can understand… the Incarnation, the Transfiguration, the miracles, raising the dead, defeating the enemy, casting out demons… that’s real power isn’t it!

but I believe the greatest thing He did was giving His life on the Cross.

To the world, that’s when He appeared the weakest… even the Pharisee said, “if you are God save yourself!”. The Pharisee is the perfect example of the worldly idea of power… but Christ didn’t leave, He didn’t call an army of Angels to assist Him (though He could have), He didn’t destroy His enemies and put them to death (though He could have), He didn’t even prove His divinity by saving Himself from death as the Pharisee suggested. Christ continued to hang on the Cross and was mocked and rejected by all and then He died. He allowed His friends to leave Him, He allowed His own creatures to put nails in His hands and feet, to pierce His Heart with a sword, and put a crown of thorns on His head.

That is when He was strongest because He was able to go against everything He felt, and He was able to give up everything, and do the most difficult thing, simply because He chose to. Real strength is in loving God with all the power of our free will, not in worldly displays of power.

I’m basically just repeating what TheQuestioner said but I wanted to relate it to the Passion.

Here’s a passage that is very good to meditate on:

‘But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me’. 2 Cor 12:9

God bless

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I know a little of what you are going through. The stage in your faith is quite similar to mine. You my friend, suffer from Acedia. You do not wish grace from God. That is not to say you don’t love God, but the grace which you deny specifically is the grace of God’s gift of Peace.

Not really, I just… can’t feel it, the peace you (and a lot of saints apparently) describe. Sorry if this sounds kinda emo but I’ve never been good at getting warm fuzzy feelings like that. I’ve been to Adoration Chapels more than a couple times, I felt nothing. I’ve prayed the rosary with my family on certain occasions, still nothing. I’ve read a few passages from saint diaries and stuff, I just end up feeling more alienated.

On the other hand when I day dream about being able to take on a rampaging army of doom with a plethora of powerful spells… Oooooh yeah…

Besides, it is just dreaming. I’ve seen the rationale of how sexual fantasies qualify for being disordered but I don’t see anything in the CCC that pertains to other kinds of fantasies.

You seem to think that you are somehow more badass
than God’s saints.

Well you can say I’m guilty of that.

You’ve been heavily influenced by the media (as I was) to believe that anyone who adhere’s to God in anyway they can, and makes a great effort to do so, so much that it pours out physically, is a weakling and a wimp. Well…St. Moses the Black took on a whole group of bandits on his own. St. Joan of Arc was the youngest person to lead an army. St. Olaf conquered his pagan opponents and St. Morris was a Roman Soldier.

Actually no. As a matter of fact, I have a strong respect for the (what I call) warrior saints you’ve cited (St. Joan in particular). Its just that they seem to be a different breed of saint compared to the likes of, let’s say, Dominic Savio.

But what makes them strong was their commitment to God. Joan died while being burned at the stake because she would not renounce her faith in God’s direction of her actions, St. Moses died while defending his monastery, St. Olaf spread Christianity wherever he could, and St. Morris refused to attack Christians and so was put to death.

I’m actually quite thankful you’ve given me these examples. But from my experience, I find them quite rare compared to saints who spent more time in a monastery than in a battlefield.

Your concept of strength, just like mine was (and still is a little) is very worldly in a sense. You adhere to the world’s definition of strength. That is, a show of power and might in a physical sense. But that isn’t strength, not really anyway.

Hrrrrmm… yeah you’re right. There’s a type of strength that is material, and there is a type of strength that is much greater.

Still… no harm in fantasizing about having plenty of the former right?

Joan is as strong as Moses, who is as strong as John, who is as strong as Morris, who is as strong as Maximilian, who is as strong as Sebastian. Strength does not come from physical prowess, but from recognizing your weakness in the Lord, and depending on God to help make it up. Because God is all strength, all might, all power, all force, you truly become strong. Try this. Challenge one of your juice head friends to a weightlifting contest. You’ll lose. Then challenge them to go to Mass every weekend and 2 weekday Masses for 3 months and not miss a single one. They may not even dare to take the challenge.

Only because they’d think its stupid… but still, I see your point. There are some things only God can help you with… moving on… getting over your past… and doing what’s right even if other people hate you for it.

becky, I’ll say it before Lost says it. There is nothing wrong with role playing games that let you pump up or become more powerful. If you train hard you get stronger, this is a basic system of effort and reward much like real life, and so that in and of itself cannot be condemned.

Thanks. You’ve said it way better than I could have.

Lost, there is also another issue in your fantasies. They are not intended for evil, this is plain. However, in the last one you mentioned, I noticed that your fantasies are a way of simply punishing yourself for the evil you thought of or were tempted in. They do not really stem from a wish for power, but from a reliance on your own self to correct and improve yourself and get away from sin, and this is bad for another reason. I have something of a similar situation. Though lately this has been changing. The solution is to recognize that there is not an evil “side” to you. The evil is something you do, not something a part of you does. That being the case, pray to God to help you, say sorry for your sins and thank him that it was not worse, and move on. You cannot get rid of sin on your own, you need God’s grace. Without Him you would only descend further into darkness. Rely on Him and don’t rush Him, because you’ll only be stifling His work.

Wow, you’re pretty on the mark here. Still, I sometimes just get the feeling that God leaves me on my own because otherwise it’d make me lazy or something. Its why I seem so critical of myself and blame everything on that part of me that’s full of flaws. And I’m afraid I have to admit, it has sort of disciplined me. :\

 

[JRKH]

Ah but power, unlike sex, is morally neutral. Sex is only good within marriage and thus anything sexual related done outside is adultery, a mortal sin.

What is so sinful about power? King David had power when he ascended the throne. King Solomon possessed the same great power through his sharp wisdom.

King David recieved his Authority (Power) From God and when He abuse that power God humbled him and punished him.
Solomon, when God asked him what he wanted, was humble enough to ask only for wisdom with which to rule God’s People.

And humility? Hah, don’t think that is not subject to its own corruption. I’ve seen people use it as an excuse to become doormats.

Yes - most things can be corrupted, or false. False humility can certainly be one.

Hold up now. That’s a rather judgmental exaggeration. Who said I acted violent? I know more muscle-bound idiots who are more violent and dangerous than this scrawny writer. The only worse thing that such fantasies brought me was that they’re pretty addictive when I don’t control myself. That and maybe my temper but I’ve always had that loong before I watched/played anything violent.

I don’t believe I ever said you “acted” violent in the temporal world, but you yourself describe them as violent. Here is what you said…
they get replaced by a different sort of fantasy… a crazy, impossible,** and most of all violent fantasy**. Most of these fantasies may seem childish or geeky to some but I really do have a sort of desire for them that’s even stronger than my libido. Some of them involve me knocking away thugs with an unseen force, building up a terrifying fire in my hands and then shooting it out (Sometimes I even imagine it to be hellfire! ), doing gun kata moves, and **blowing stuff up **with just a mere gesture (usually a classic finger snap). Stuff like action scenes and intense music like battle themes or rock songs only add up to the feeling.

Christ, in Matthew Chapter, 5 clearly says that thoughts are just as sinful as physical actions. In fact He specifically mentions sinful thoughts in relation to Sex (Lust) and Anger (violence), the very two things we are talking about here.
As to how others act, the “Muscle bound idiots” you refer to, I find it to be less than fruitful to compare yourself to others. Far better to set you eyes on Christ and seek to be more like Him.

In closing I will just say that it appears that “the questioner” is in the best place to advise you. So I will back out and let you two talk.

Peace
James

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

In Catholicism, a desire for power is seen as a negative thing, because it shows a hidden pride… I think we all have a desire for power in some sort of way

Ah, but believe it or not, Pride can be quite medicinal to certain individuals. Oppressed slaves and peasants, when they realize their worth as human person, can rise up and overthrow their oppressors.

but what strikes me more about your post is …I’m not sure how to say this, but almost a fascination with what is dark or evil. It’s like you’re drawn to the evil characters. I’ve noticed this in our society in general… but I think that evil is really boring and monotonous and good is much more interesting. For example, if I were writing about two characters, and one was an “anti-hero” and dark, and the other was the saintly one, I think I would have much more fun writing about the saintly one… because all evil characters are basically the same. Evil is really not interesting when you really examine it in detail.

Aha, but m’dear. An anti-hero is not necessarily evil. In fact, if this were a role-playing game, my anti-heroes would fall under the Chaotic or Neutral Good alignment. Whereas the saints, the simply stick to the one Lawful Good alignment. (As far as your description is concerned.)

Just because a character appears “dark and evil” does not make them so. If Satan can disguise himself an angel of light, I see no reason why the heart of a hero cannot hide within, let’s say, a ronin with a blood-stained past, a boy cursed to house a demon inside him, or an ex-soldier haunted by his failures to protect those he loved.

The thing about anti-heroes (at least as far as I understand them) is the they’re not really evil.

They’re just human.

That’s what makes them far more interesting than fairy tale cutouts.

Just as the light’s love wishes to unite all things, being the source of existence and creation, so the hatred of the darkness wants to divide all things, being the source of nonexistence and destruction. Just as the light extends out into the infinite beyond, so the darkness seems to extend into its infinite beyond. Just as there is a grandeur about the simple, yet infinite light of God, with all His attributes and energies, so there is a certain grandeur about the blunt, yet apparently infinite darkness of the devil, with all his deep-rooted and ferocious self-destructiveness, full of a stubborn and manic rage.

If you’ll forgive me, what you’ve quoted sounds like something a hippie would write. Basically its “Love, not Hate”. “Make Peace not War.” “The best weapon is one you’ll never have to use.”

I also note how it insists on an optimistic view of the world. Here’s are some problems with that type of thinking. One cannot childishly paint the world with a color that’s either white or black. It is a mix of many colors. People with your author’s mindset strike me as those who wish to see the world full of pretty meadows with laughing children and cute little flowers. On the other side, there are those who see a world torn by war, rife with bloody tragedy, and humanity (as with creation in general) as nothing more than a disgrace.

I prefer a more balanced approached. Whilst I’m often guilty of chronic cynicism, I try my best to be open-minded and verify if anything spoken by the optimists’ is in fact true. Both sides should learn to acknowledge whatever possible truth perceived by the other (and yes, like it or not, neither side is no closer to a clear picture than the other).

Now onto some of the more specific things mentioned: Rage, hatred, spreading division, wicked laughter (yes, even that I have issues with).

Rage - Like power, it is morally neutral. Anger can be used either for good or for evil.

Hate - Most cases in can be bad, but I can’t say in the case of hatred born out of a desire for justice.

Spreading division - You know, in war, divide and conquer has always been an effective tactic regardless of whoever employs it.

“Wicked” laughter - Seriously, what is so wrong with wanting to laugh like that?

I think it’s easy to see darkness as something that has grandeur, something tragic/poetic that is interesting to think about… but in reality, it’s not like that, in reality it’s what the author said: shadowy, …almost lame. It’s the goodness that is truly interesting. If we always think about and fantasize about darkness, that can’t be good for us because our thoughts do change us. If we think about goodness, we’ll become more like the goodness, if we think about the darkness too much, that could present a temptation. I know I’ve seen this in my own life. That’s why it’s such a good idea to meditate on Christ, on the Passion, on the events of the Bible, because that transforms our minds so we don’t love evil anymore. Sin is loving evil.

Please note, I would like to distinguish between what is “dark” and what is “evil”. Just because something looks “dark” does not automatically mean it is evil. For instance, the sight of a butcher beheading a struggling chicken may seem “dark” but has he really done anything wrong? No. Another example, if I’m being mugged and I had to beat my mugger half-dead to defend myself, its pretty dark… but did I do anything wrong? Not really.

With that said, I’m afraid I have to disagree with your assertion that “darkness” is lame. I see great beauty in both. I mean I find the image of a little saintly girl in white communion dress and praying in a chapel to be cute and tranquil. On the other hand, an image of myself squaring off in a magic-dueling tournament against a long-time rival feels both exhilarating and speaks to the “warrior within”.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Christ, in Matthew Chapter, 5 clearly says that thoughts are just as sinful as physical actions. In fact He specifically mentions sinful thoughts in relation to Sex (Lust) and Anger (violence), the very two things we are talking about here.

I’m afraid you need to break this down further with a bit more logic here. Thoughts of sex are adulterous in nature because their real life counterparts are done outside marriage. However, how can this apply to violence? I mean take the part about shooting fire from my hands. What’s wrong with that? Knocking away thugs with psychic force? Legitimate self-defense. Blowing things up? Oh yes, I can now apply for a demolition crew. Ooooh the depravity.

 

[JRKH]

I’m afraid you need to break this down further with a bit more logic here. Thoughts of sex are adulterous in nature because their real life counterparts are done outside marriage. However, how can this apply to violence? I mean take the part about shooting fire from my hands. What’s wrong with that? Knocking away thugs with psychic force? Legitimate self-defense. Blowing things up? Oh yes, I can now apply for a demolition crew. Ooooh the depravity.

Using your logic, why couldn’t you justify lustful thought by prefacing them with, “If I was married to her I would…” and by such a twist of thought, make such lustful thoughts done inside marriage.

As I and others have tried to explain to you before, the encouragement of anger and violent thoughts, just as with the encouragement of lustful thoughts is simply not in the best interest of ones soul. Violence, like lust, falls in the realm of the carnal, the animal. It is not what we are called to By Christ who places Love at the pinnacle of all that we should seek after in forming our lives.

Finally I will simply say this. You asked for our opinion on this matter and I have given mine. You are free to accept and ponder my response or reject it outright.

Peace
James

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Using your logic, why couldn’t you justify lustful thought by prefacing them with, “If I was married to her I would…” and by such a twist of thought, make such lustful thoughts done inside marriage.

Wrong. You know what’s missing? The fact that you’re not really married to whoever it is you’re imagining. The act is you’re lusting after a person outside of marriage. That’s why it is still adulterous.

I don’t even wanna bother quoting that other stuff you said which does not even try to logically explain why any of the stuff I listed is sinful. The “Because it is carnal” excuse is not the line of reasoning used throughout the CCC.

 

[JRKH]

Wrong. You know what’s missing? The fact that you’re not really married to whoever it is you’re imagining. The act is you’re lusting after a person outside of marriage. That’s why it is still adulterous.

I don’t even wanna bother quoting that other stuff you said which does not even try to logically explain why any of the stuff I listed is sinful. The “Because it is carnal” excuse is not the line of reasoning used throughout the CCC.

As I said earlier, you asked for our opinions and I have given you the best advise I can.
The fact that you are asking about this seems fair indication that it is troubling to you. The reason for that is that it is counter to Christ’s plan.

However since you do not wish to accept my (name removed by moderator)ut on the matter, I will not trouble you any more.

Peace
James

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

As I said earlier, you asked for our opinions and I have given you the best advise I can.
The fact that you are asking about this seems fair indication that it is troubling to you. The reason for that is that it is counter to Christ’s plan.

However since you do not wish to accept my (name removed by moderator)ut on the matter, I will not trouble you any more.

I am not so much asking for advice but asking for thoughts. However, when your thoughts don’t make sense or don’t apply, I just gotta say it. Don’t take it personal. I don’t really find this troubling, just intriguing.

 

[Monica4316]

Ah, but believe it or not, Pride can be quite medicinal to certain individuals. Oppressed slaves and peasants, when they realize their worth as human person, can rise up and overthrow their oppressors.

I think you are confusing the two things pride is not realizing your worth as a human being and a child of God. Pride shows itself in feelings of superiority, judging others, disobedience, etc.

Aha, but m’dear. An anti-hero is not necessarily evil. In fact, if this were a role-playing game, my anti-heroes would fall under the Chaotic or Neutral Good alignment. Whereas the saints, the simply stick to the one Lawful Good alignment. (As far as your description is concerned.)

I don’t really understand the categories, what do you mean?

Just because a character appears “dark and evil” does not make them so. If Satan can disguise himself an angel of light, I see no reason why the heart of a hero cannot hide within, let’s say, a ronin with a blood-stained past, a boy cursed to house a demon inside him, or an ex-soldier haunted by his failures to protect those he loved.

Sure, kind of like Strider from Lord of the Rings right
if you see the person as being good inside but have this sort of exterior, that’s different… but I would also ask what is the motivation behind this. If it comes from a dislike of people who are good AND appear to be good (like the Saints in monasteries you were talking about) - then I would wonder what is giving you this dislike. Because there’s really nothing to dislike about goodness, interior or exterior

The thing about anti-heroes (at least as far as I understand them) is the they’re not really evil.

They’re just human.

That’s what makes them far more interesting than fairy tale cutouts.

I can see what you are saying… but be careful about saying that sinless people are fairy tale cutouts. Remember that God made us to be without sin… the Saints in Heaven, and Mother Mary, are MORE human, not less. They are more like what God intended for us all to be. The closer we come to God, the more truly human we become… being truly human doesn’t mean the things you described, rather it means being made in the image of God.

If you’ll forgive me, what you’ve quoted sounds like something a hippie would write. Basically its “Love, not Hate”. “Make Peace not War.” “The best weapon is one you’ll never have to use.”

The person who wrote that book is not a hippie, he’s a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy who used to be involved in Hinduism and yoga… he encountered a lot of the demonic during his life. He was converted by an Elder on Mount Athos. Basically there’s nothing hippie about him or the book but what he wrote, isn’t it true and what we believe as well? He is saying that God is perfect goodness, and the devil is entirely evil. He is comparing the two. I’m not really sure what you mean…

I also note how it insists on an optimistic view of the world. Here’s are some problems with that type of thinking. One cannot childishly paint the world with a color that’s either white or black. It is a mix of many colors. People with your author’s mindset strike me as those who wish to see the world full of pretty meadows with laughing children and cute little flowers. On the other side, there are those who see a world torn by war, rife with bloody tragedy, and humanity (as with creation in general) as nothing more than a disgrace.

I don’t see that in what he wrote… he is describing absolutes in the spiritual realm. Not on earth. If you were to meet God, do you think there would be any darkness in Him? If you were to meet the devil (God forbid!), do you think there would be any light in him? If you answered ‘no’ to each of these questions then it’s more clear what this author is trying to say he is describing God and the devil.

 

[Monica4316]

I prefer a more balanced approached. Whilst I’m often guilty of chronic cynicism, I try my best to be open-minded and verify if anything spoken by the optimists’ is in fact true. Both sides should learn to acknowledge whatever possible truth perceived by the other (and yes, like it or not, neither side is no closer to a clear picture than the other).

If I may ask, what makes you cynical?

Now onto some of the more specific things mentioned: Rage, hatred, spreading division, wicked laughter (yes, even that I have issues with).

Rage - Like power, it is morally neutral. Anger can be used either for good or for evil.

Hate - Most cases in can be bad, but I can’t say in the case of hatred born out of a desire for justice.

Spreading division - You know, in war, divide and conquer has always been an effective tactic regardless of whoever employs it.

“Wicked” laughter - Seriously, what is so wrong with wanting to laugh like that?

I guess that is where I would disagree with you LW… can you imagine any of those things in Heaven? I can’t… therefore they are not morally neutral, because they can’t be good. How can hatred, rage, ever be good? Didn’t Christ say, “love your enemy, do good to those who hurt you”, and that if we won’t forgive, we won’t be forgiven?

Please note, I would like to distinguish between what is “dark” and what is “evil”. Just because something looks “dark” does not automatically mean it is evil. For instance, the sight of a butcher beheading a struggling chicken may seem “dark” but has he really done anything wrong? No. Another example, if I’m being mugged and I had to beat my mugger half-dead to defend myself, its pretty dark… but did I do anything wrong? Not really.

.

I think it really depends on the specific thing you’re talking about… of course, the butcher isn’t sinning and self defense isn’t a sin… but there are many other things I can think of that are both “dark” and “evil”… in any case, what I’m saying is that we shouldn’t love darkness. Whether it’s evil or no.

With that said, I’m afraid I have to disagree with your assertion that “darkness” is lame. I see great beauty in both. I mean I find the image of a little saintly girl in white communion dress and praying in a chapel to be cute and tranquil. On the other hand, an image of myself squaring off in a magic-dueling tournament against a long-time rival feels both exhilarating and speaks to the “warrior within”.

well is that rival someone evil? (Im thinking of Harry Potter vs Voldemort)

btw not all “light” is cutesy think of St Francis embracing the leper… it’s often very serious

God bless