Struggling to hold onto my faith (and failing)

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Tolle_Lege said:
There is absolutely nowhere in Scripture that even hints at Adam and Eve being some type of irrational hominids who God “zapped” with a soul.
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Well, that’s because scripture isn’t a science textbook.

It seems like you’re basically cherry-picking what you want to take literally in the story. Do you believe the cosmos were created in 6 days? And that somehow several days passed before the sun was created (something Saint Augustine specifically addressed)? Do you believe Eden was a literal garden? That it’s still somewhere on Earth, being guarded by an angel with a flaming sword?

You’re obviously free to believe whatever you want as long as it doesn’t contradict Church teaching, but when you say there’s not a doubt in your mind and then state a bunch of opinions that the Church hasn’t taken a stance on and which go against science, it’s somewhat concerning. You really shouldn’t speak with such certainty on things that the Church Herself isn’t certain about; it just doesn’t seem very prudent.

Just my two cents.
 
You seem to speak with certainty that polygenism is true, based on some computer models and guesswork. It isn’t. We had two first parents which is Church teaching. Any other opinion is false.
 
Tolle_Lege said:
You seem to speak with certainty that polygenism is true, based on some computer models and guesswork.
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What? You either misunderstood or are totally misrepresenting me. I made it clear in the OP that I don’t understand much about biology, but I had read biologists and anthropologists who claimed it was scientifically impossible that we descended from only 2 people - one couple. This has since been cleared up by people in this thread, and, as I already said, by an article I read on Strange Notions that explained in great detail why this claim was based on several assumptions and bad science.

You’re trying to equate my having been mislead by bad scientific information from dishonest individuals, with your claiming absolute certainty about your personal opinions that go against science and make definitive claims which the Church Herself doesn’t make. It’s clearly not comparable in any significant way, and frankly it comes off as somewhat hostile.

I was trying to give you some fraternal advice; there’s no need to get offended or be defensive.
 
It is scientifically impossible for science to prove whether monogenism or polygenism are true. The fragmented state of the fossil record prevents that.
 
I also recommend this series of blog posts by a team of Dominicans re: evolution, monogenism, polygenism and original sin: http://www.thomisticevolution.org/d...city-of-adam-and-eve-part-i-theological-data/

Your second question is a bigger challenge to the faith and relates to the apparent “silence” of God in the face of evil, especially evil in the church and among the clergy. Definitely seek out a good spiritual director. Ultimately, the Answer is lying in a manger, and hanging on a cross.
 
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We already know that belief in polygenism is incompatible with the faith. So any study which reached this conclusion is to be rejected as false.

As far as having multiple “first hominids,” of which two were specially chosen to be “infused with souls,” or some other odd interpretation of human creation, many problems are presented in regards to 1) contradiction of Scripture and 2) doctrine of Original Sin. I have already offered the multiple verses of Scripture that support this type of creation, which can’t be dismissed with the statement that the Bible “isn’t a science book,” because in this case our first parents are tied to Original Sin, itself an anchor of faith and morals. Virgin births, resurrection of the dead, and other miracles are not “scientifically proven” either, but are true.

Furthermore, Adam and Eve were created in a state of perfection, free of harm and illness. If they were not “created” as humans by God until they had souls, that would mean their “hominid bodies” were subject to disease and illness until they received souls. Unless we posit that these bodies were then immediately healed and given perfection upon reception of souls (which is supported nowhere in Scripture or Tradition), this theory does not make any sense. Man is made in God’s image. God was quite clear how He created our first parents - directly, not as results of pre-human natural changes.

Lastly, at the end of time there will be a General Judgment, and the bodies of all those who have passed on before us - most of which are now nothing but bones and dust - will be raised up by the Lord God Almighty in an instant. Not over millions and billions of years, but in an instant.
 
Again, you’re cherry-picking what to take literally and what not to, and making assumptions and leaps in logic that the Church does not make. You can rationalize it all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re claiming certainty, a total lack of any doubt whatsoever, about something the Church doesn’t even claim to know. This means you’re claiming to have knowledge that the Magisterium doesn’t have. The problem isn’t your theory; the problem is that you said there’s "not a doubt in your mind "

If you don’t immediately see an issue with that, there’s nothing more to say, I suppose.

Peace.
 
Have you heard of Lee Strobel? he’s a christian author who wrote a book entitled ‘The Case For Christ’. He interviewed guys like Edwin Yamauchi, William Lane Craig and D.A. Carson. These are Bible believing christian scholars of the highest eminence. These men looked into the evidence and were compelled to become christians. The evidence is on our side, I promise. I cannot recommend it enough; check out The Case For Christ and I promise you will see things differently. It’s that good.

But even if we ignore Lee Strobel, there is evidence from the Scriptures to examine. Scholars say that in 1 Corinthians 15:3-6, Paul is quoting a creed from the early church. So early, in fact, that the creed even pre-dates the Gospels. Notice in verse 4, which says “he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures”. Belief in the resurrection was part and parcel of the early church. This was not a thing that developed hundreds of years later-- it was there from the beginning! 😀
 
If the Church allows us to believe either way, there’s nothing wrong with me claiming to pick one of the compatible options and believe it without a doubt. I am not claiming a belief contrary to the Church or in defiance of Church teaching.
 
Sorry to hear of your crisis of faith.
  1. Original sin. Read the headlines - how can you doubt? Evolution? That cannot be proved, depending on which theory your speak of, but entropy certainly can. There is much more evidence of entropy, even at the DNA level. That is not ascent - it is descent.
  2. What we believe is not science, it is faith. Yet, it is faith combined with reason. Faith cannot take you all of the way and neither can reason. Two hands, two eyes, two lungs, two aspects of belief: reason + faith.
  3. God is immaterial, as are all of the angels and demons. Thus, unless granted the ability to assume a particular physical appearance, they are invisible. God is owed our love. We cannot love freely unless we have the freedom to love or not love. He is not only huge, but He is huge on freedom.
  4. Eyewitnesses, many of whom shed their blood for the faith, should provide at least some reassurance. The witnesses were more than sufficient to establish and grow the faith - even under the death penalty! Who would risk that for a lie? For some whimsical idea?
  5. Interested in Jesus Christ? Already know Him and love Him? Great! Get yourself before Christ in His true presence at adoration. Tell Him of your questions, doubts, even fears. Important: Be as patient with Him as He has been with you.
And when the Holy Spirit provides you with your affirmation, your consolation…

you will be changed.
 
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I recommend this book by Frank Sheed. It helped me understand God in a more personal and deeper way. It gives a good groundwork of theology and will help you hold your faith while running into seeming contradictions. It is highly satisfying getting a deeper understanding of the infinity of God.

 
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