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Deus_tecum
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Good point, since Lent is quite aways away.
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TK421
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A person who struggles with doubt (not obstinate doubt, but doubt) is superior to one who doesn’t, since those struggles are used to refine you.
In these past 2 years, mad-trads have never been an issue for me, probably because my upbringing is protestant of the fundamentalist leaning, and having seen that side and then crossed the river, it’s painfully obvious to see the parallels between the mad-trad thought process and the fundamentalist protestant thought process. I really mean it: it’s like I’m looking at two spiritual twins. It’s more than just academic for me: it is experiential.
What I did struggle with (and if I’m not being prideful, then at least some inkling of struggle still remains) is new atheism and secular liberalism, which I half-crossed over into in my late teen/college years as I lost faith in what I (incorrectly) assumed was Christianity in its fully authentic form.
The first step, as with anything and everything, is prayer, and in this case the 2nd step is to immerse yourself in the literature. If you have doubts in the back of your mind that, “Maybe the mad-trads are right”, then read about it, and from the best sources you can. Don’t be sloppy/lazy and sit in your computer chair and google random internet sites. That is sloth, and you justly suffer from anxiety if that is what you choose to fill your head with. Just turn them off. Block them. You want books. Books by scholarly authors that follow the historical trail and the theology.
(Spoiler: the Catholic Church rips the mad-trads to shreds)
This doubt of yours isn’t even necessarily planted by your own weakness or by Satan. It might be God that is prompting you, permitting you to be uneasy, saying to you, “Seek!”.
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AKDee
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Can someone define “mad-trad” for me, please?
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asia53
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Father Z does an excellent job of explaining in this very short article.
Must We Call Them Rad Trads?
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angell1
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this exactly,
I’ve been there. and some people on the forums know this.
I experienced the same thing, except from the fundamentalist protestant side.
it made me question many things and I came close to leaving the church
but God got through to me through my university science student side by making me realize that it was illogical to just jump ship without investigating both sides of the evidence.
and I realized that there was a lot of catholic teaching that I really didn’t know or understand very well so this made me learn
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pianistclare
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Melchior_1
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Lormar
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It’s not just on Facebook, it’s all over the internet. Francis has brought out the fangs in many, and they are all out to make a killing and to gather in as many as they can to their fold.
Jack, I’ve been with them and back to the Church. A few times. I spent years with them in fact. Many years. And when I came back to the Church, for years I wondered the same thing: But what it they are right???
My advice to you is you have nothing to lose by trusting the Church and everything to gain.
Jack, I’ve been with them and back to the Church. A few times. I spent years with them in fact. Many years. And when I came back to the Church, for years I wondered the same thing: But what it they are right???
My advice to you is you have nothing to lose by trusting the Church and everything to gain.
TK421, why don’t you post the similarities between the two thought processes?
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asia53
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You’re right! Thank you. I have no idea how I missed them up.
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ProVobis
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Good question.
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multitude
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Yeah, if you keep reading that stuff, it does make you wonder about things. But Jesus did promise that the gates of Hades will not overcome the Church, so we’ll see, right?
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multitude
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Frankly I really don’t think a lot of people are going to make it, but that is not really because I am a subscriber of Jansenist theology or whatnot. I’m not. I’m a big proponent of free will. It’s mainly because a lot of people are just not going to choose God… no matter how much they boast of it. In my experience, those who speak of mercy, are usually the most merciless people you will meet. However, in a double-edged sword kind of way, then that would actually mean those traditionals do have a bit of a point.
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Crown_of_Stars
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Agreed. Sometimes I feel Facebook should just be gone away with. I know that’s not fair to the truly good people who enjoy having their page, but for the most part, it seems to be a place where you get attacked and ripped up if you’re not anti-baby/ pro-gay
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johnnyc176
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Are you as concerned with ‘livid liberals’ who seek to the change the teachings of Jesus?
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otjm
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Off topic.
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OraLabora
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Agreed.
From the Rule of St. Benedict, chapter 49:
The important thing is to trust in Jesus. Above all and everyone else.
He founded the Church, and entrusted the Keys to Peter and his successors.
If we feel the Church has gone awry, then we are basically saying we have no faith and no trust, in Jesus.
And that friends, is a ticket to perdition.
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TimothyH
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This is pretty tasteless.
I have an examination of conscience I use, a printed list based on the ten commandments. One of the things it asks is whether I have mocked the saints or used them as the subject of jokes or in an irreverent manner. Doing so falls under the second commandment.
-Tim-
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AttendeDomine
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Fr. Chad Ripperger is a fairly well-known priest in traditionalist circles, at least online. While I personally have some problems with many of his views, I would recommend two of his talks (while keeping in mind his idea of “penanceware”):
Tradition: Problems Today
Traditionalist Problems
I think that the above, listened to critically, will help you to reinforce your understanding of ultra-traditionalists, especially since they come from someone who, while not being an ultra-traditionalist himself, probably understands them very well.
IMO, I think that the ultra-traditionalists ultimately are rooted in very dark things. The pride and disobedience and anger and legalism that can categorize them, coupled with the detraction against Christ’s Church that they are so often found spreading, for me sets off red flags that I construe as demonic. Those five traits existing together in a concentrated form simply is not coincidental in my mind. As such, I personally am not surprised that individuals who interact with them at some length might find themselves in the midst of a certain spiritual drain.
I would also point out that, IMO, many so-called traditionalist Catholics are de facto Sedeprivationists, even if they would not use that term to describe themselves, and might even argue against it. I should also mention, riffing off of Fr. Ripperger, that many in the traditionalist movement are actually Modernists, if we understand Modernism as being, in essence, a revolt against the authority of the Church directly resulting from private judgment in matters of doctrine, as well as personal tastes and preferences which attempt to define for the Church which traditions are to be normative.
Exposing one’s self to such positions ultimately will have a poisoning effect on one’s spiritual life, since, in my view, that goal is precisely why such views have been created, if not overtly, than certainly unwittingly.
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R_H_Benson
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Directing people to Father Ripperger is sound advice, IMO. Priests like him show us how it is possible to be a Catholic in good-standing, attached to traditional forms of liturgy and devotions, without having to resort to the extremist claims of some ultra-traditionalists. In other words, there is a happy medium. By no means does a Catholic have to be happy and enthusiastic about the status quo in the Church. But on the other hand, by no means should he disparage the papacy and an entire ecumenical council; such a position solves none of their problems, because it can separate them entirely from communion with the Church. It is better to bear the current state of affairs with patience, prayer, and steadfast trust in the Lord than to “jump ship”.
The promise of Our Lord that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church will never be revoked. The Church is infallible, indefectible, and authoritative. She always will be, no matter what happens. There may come a day in which we as Catholics will be presented with the necessity of formally making a choice to follow that which is True (and therein will be the Church and the Chair of Peter) or that which is false. The lines will not be clear because Satan is a master of making evil and disorder appear to be good. I think it is prudent to keep in mind that the clergy (yes, even individual bishops) can indeed fall into error. So while we must always trust in the Lord and His promises to the Church, we are not obligated to trust those who would lead us away from the doctrines of the Church - even those who are called to be our shepherds. That is why we must be familiar with our catechism, and with the Traditions of our Church.
We should pray for our Holy Father Pope Francis and for all the bishops that they listen to the guidance of the Holy Spirit at the upcoming Synod.
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Tomdstone
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I don’t see how traditionalists can be as bad as you appear to say here because the Holy Father has given faculties (temporarily) to the priests of the traditional SSPX to hear confessions.
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