Struggling when thinking about islam

[MissyB786]

hey thanks for your response, i am goign to pray alot tonight…

i am not considering converting to islam, but what bothers me is their factual views on our faith… like how jesus did not die on a cross and how he is not gods son… so i start to wonder why they think these things , maybe i wish iknew a bit more or could talk to a priest on the matter so that i dont have these doubts because they are big doubts because they are the most fundamental aspects of our faiht…

one thing is for surei will not convert because ihave expierenced the grace of god through christ and his church

Is normal I think to question life and religion, even I have. You can ask the priest, but what they know about Islam will be limited, so you are more than welcome to ask Muslims aswell. I use sunniforum.com to ask questions.

I respect all religions, and If I wasn’t Muslim I think the next religion I would be would be Jewish because like Islam they also believe in a Monotheistic God.

We as Muslims acknowledge all the Prophets(PBUT) in Christianity and Judaism and also respect Jesus(PBUH) with high regards. There are many reasons I cannot accept Christianity:

1. God having a son, God created us, He is perfect, He doesn’t need to become human to understand us, because He is all knowelegable.
2. Evidence in bible that Jesus was not God.
   ““Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.” (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)” and lots more, but Jesus slept, ate, went to the toilet, if he was God why would he need to do all those things.

3…The trinity, Muslims see it as Father: God, Son: Jesus, Holy Spirit: Gabriel
So we would rather worship the Father, even tho God has no son, so father is not an appropriate title for God.

1. So many different versions of Bible and translation distorts meaning in the process, but the Qur’an will always remain in arabic, a Muslim from different parts of the world will always recite the same Quran and God has said he will preserve it and that is why we have many Muslim who learn it by heart. So even if we do make translations, we will do it from the original arabic, rather than a translation from a translation from a translation if u get what i mean, which distorts the meaning, hence we always learn arabic to preserve the original form.

But this is the basics of what we believe, you can ask others and as the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion.

I’ve read all sorts about different religions, including taoism, zoroastronism, bhuddism, but Islam is perfect for me.

 

[bcuster]

I was recently challenged in my thinking about Islam by a co-worker. I had listened to Robert Spencer on CA Live so I checked out one of his books on Muhammad from the library. I realized that I did not know a lot about the history and faith of Islam. I have come to the conclusion that God wants me to pray for those who practice Islam. Maybe your concern is leading you to intercede for them as well. Another help for me, has been to read CS Lewis’s Last Battle.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

hey guys,

i am a devout catholic and believe in the bible and have witnessed everything good about the church and about gods love and am currently in a seminar at my church that is 7 weeks in length to strengthen me even more

tonight i am thinking about islam because i know the factual differences and while i do not betray nor will i betray catholicism ever it bothers me to think that people (muslims) who can be just as devout have such radically different views espiecally on the most factual and fundamental things about christianity… what is worsse is that how can i say that everyy muslim will go to hell? when i think about the muslims that kills christians i dont know what to think

i need some help in this regard, to strengthen my faith and my resolve

I grew up with Islam and have read the Quran twice, while still maintaining my Catholic faith, so I understand more about Islam than most people here. You should read the statements from Vatican II, I just read them today and they may give you solace. Also, the story of Saint Francis of Assisi meeting the sultan Malik Al-Kamil may also help, as would the dialogue between the Papacy and Muslim leaders over the last 50 years or so. I hope this helps and don’t bother worrying about who is going to hell, leave that to God, I know that I wouldn’t want that responsibility. Peace be with you!

 

[Nabooru]

hey thanks for your response, i am goign to pray alot tonight…

i am not considering converting to islam, but what bothers me is their factual views on our faith… like how jesus did not die on a cross and how he is not gods son… so i start to wonder why they think these things , maybe i wish iknew a bit more or could talk to a priest on the matter so that i dont have these doubts because they are big doubts because they are the most fundamental aspects of our faiht…

one thing is for surei will not convert because ihave expierenced the grace of god through christ and his church

When I was religion-shopping, before God slapped some sense into me and then lovingly picked me up from the floor, I studied Islam. It might help to know what made me reject it.

First of all, it did insult me as a woman. I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t be trusted to provide accurate testimony all by my little self and needed a buddy to help me. I think Muhammad liked women but thought they were stupid, helpless creatures, especially after his first wife died.

Speaking of his wives, he limited the faithful men to four - but he had many more than that. He said that this was so because God had made a special exception for him so be could support these women. I didn’t understand why it was necessary to sleep witness a woman in order to provide her with support and protection, and I could never, ever shake the memory that in the older Abrahamic faith, God NEVER declared a prophet exempt from his own rules. Never.

Muhammad seemed to be upset with the idea of prophets sinning and with Jesus dying an ignoble death, so in the Quran the prophets are considerably more sinless than in our tradition, and Jesus escapes at the last minute so a replacement can die in His place. (I feel for whoever that poor sucker was!)

Much of the Quran’s stories derive from local legends of people ignorant of religion rather than history and tradition. You know how in some countries in Europe, the Christ Child comes into the house on Christmas Eve and delivers presents to good children. Now imagine that someone in France has declared that they have received a new Biblical revelation that totally agrees that Baby Jesus really and truly does come into your house every Christmas season. Those are a lot of the traditions you’ll find recounted in the Quran, like the legend of Jesus making clay birds and blowing into them to bring them to life, or His talking as an infant to defend His mother, that sort of thing. The Quran also mentions several supposed prophets with Arabian names that the Biblical tradition is silent on.

The Muslim take on this is that the Bible is corrupt and the Quran is pure, but to me personally I find the Bible’s more plainly-worded historical and contemporary prose more believable than the more disjointed and poetic verse of the Quran. And I must ask myself - if the Torah and Gospel were allowed to be corrupted, why not the Quran? Why did God allow two religions to become defiled and false before finally settling on the third revelation as the one that would remain solid? If Judaism and Christianity are corrupted faiths in the same tradition, how can we reliably depend on Islam to remain true to God?

I love dogs. Adore them. And according to Islam, an angel cannot be present when a dog is in the room. Why? Dogs are unclean, and angels, however powerful, do not have the capability of being present with a particular animal in the vicinity. Nor can God stand the smell of pork, or of a person who hasn’t abluted himself before praying. You have to purify yourself before prayer, and if at any point after your purification, if you vomit, pass gas, defecate, or otherwise do something physically unpleasant, you have to undergo the entire purification again; otherwise God will not hear your prayer.

After researching it I’ve concluded that Islam still remains a very tribal sort of faith, with its focus on Arabia and its culture and taboos, and its legends and stories regarding certain famous figures that are peculiar to the region. Also, I can’t bring myself to quite trust Muhammad.

 

[kingal86]

There is a fundamental difference. Muslims are taught that it is OK to kill in the name of “Allah/God”.
This is the reasoning by fundamentalist muslims for the justification on 9/11 and many other acts of terror.

Show me where does the Catholic Church teach this.

The doctrine of just war can be applied for example at the crusades. They were responding at the aggression from the muslims in the sacred lands.

Turkey was the epicenter of the Eastern Church. Yet it was conquered by the muslims and any one that objected to converting to islam was killed, which was what they were doing in the Holy land by the way, hence the response for the crusades.

Please do not try arguing on the evils that the crusaders inflicted for war has this side effect, which is why the Catholic Church always always pleads for peace.

Show me anywhere in the 2000 years history of the Catholic Church where war was called for unilaterally without a prior aggression.

There are plenty who self-identify as Catholics or Christians who believe that in some circumstances killing for a whole variety of concepts - in defence of their nation, their faith, in self-defence etc. - is justified. Though usually, admittedly, as part of the lawful armed forces of a recognised state - although not always (e.g. the American Revolution, the Easter Rising and Irish War of Independence and too many nationalist insurgencies to name).

I’m now well aware that the Arabs conquered and converted Christian North Africa, and that much of what I’ve read and heard in the 2000s about the Crusades etc. was a bit revisionist, simplistic and tilted towards the crimes of Christendom rather than the Muslim side. And as Westerner am of course grateful that the Ottomans never conquered Western Europe.

The book (which I recommend) “The Muslim Discovery of Europe” clearly shows the feeling of superiority and hostility as mutual. There are quotes from Ottoman sources which considered Northern Europe a barbarous, frozen wasteland, and later visits to Britain and France in about 300 or so years ago had Ottoman diplomats claiming women effectively ran the place - even that far back .

But the problem with a lot of these arguments is it’s very easy for each side - e.g. the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires during their endemic border war before the Fall of Constantinople - to claim there were prior aggressions and provocations, especially when both were certain that either Orthodoxism or Islam was the one true faith, and the enemy were idolatrous infidels (in the case of Christians) or heretic worshippers of a false Arab prophet (in the case of Muslim).

And “aggression” is ambiguous, especially in a world of rival empires and kingdoms in near-constant warfare where seizing land by conquest was widely accepted by many.

Even the Catholic Truth Society pamphlet I have on the Inquisition (which seeks to counter Protestant exaggerations) acknowledges that after a period of de facto tolerance following the Reconquistor of Moorish Iberia, the Spanish authorities (I’m aware it was technically the secular authorities for the most part) were ultimately gave Muslims and Jews the choice between conversion and emigration, under the presumption at the time that error had no rights and that heresy was tantamount to treason (also present in Elizabethan England with regard to Catholics).

And those who were unable to leave were effectively forced to convert, and could be jailed (or in some cases executed) if it later was suspected they were a closet Muslim or Jew - so I’m not sure if that’s really so different from what the Arabs and Turks are accused of when you say they spread their faith by the sword.

I think Vatican II’s statements on religious freedom was a good step towards trying to lay some of this history to rest, whilst still not abandoning the Catholic Churche’s claim to teach the Truth. Certainly better than the attitude toward Christians (and Westerners in general) of extremist Sunni and Shia Islam - not to mention the sad sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shia in Iraq and now Syria (from where many Christians are being driven, including many who fled Iraq during the occupation there).

 

[StranraerHibby]

When I was religion-shopping, before God slapped some sense into me and then lovingly picked me up from the floor, I studied Islam. It might help to know what made me reject it.

First of all, it did insult me as a woman. I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t be trusted to provide accurate testimony all by my little self and needed a buddy to help me. I think Muhammad liked women but thought they were stupid, helpless creatures, especially after his first wife died.

Speaking of his wives, he limited the faithful men to four - but he had many more than that. He said that this was so because God had made a special exception for him so be could support these women. I didn’t understand why it was necessary to sleep witness a woman in order to provide her with support and protection, and I could never, ever shake the memory that in the older Abrahamic faith, God NEVER declared a prophet exempt from his own rules. Never.

Muhammad seemed to be upset with the idea of prophets sinning and with Jesus dying an ignoble death, so in the Quran the prophets are considerably more sinless than in our tradition, and Jesus escapes at the last minute so a replacement can die in His place. (I feel for whoever that poor sucker was!)

Much of the Quran’s stories derive from local legends of people ignorant of religion rather than history and tradition. You know how in some countries in Europe, the Christ Child comes into the house on Christmas Eve and delivers presents to good children. Now imagine that someone in France has declared that they have received a new Biblical revelation that totally agrees that Baby Jesus really and truly does come into your house every Christmas season. Those are a lot of the traditions you’ll find recounted in the Quran, like the legend of Jesus making clay birds and blowing into them to bring them to life, or His talking as an infant to defend His mother, that sort of thing. The Quran also mentions several supposed prophets with Arabian names that the Biblical tradition is silent on.

The Muslim take on this is that the Bible is corrupt and the Quran is pure, but to me personally I find the Bible’s more plainly-worded historical and contemporary prose more believable than the more disjointed and poetic verse of the Quran. And I must ask myself - if the Torah and Gospel were allowed to be corrupted, why not the Quran? Why did God allow two religions to become defiled and false before finally settling on the third revelation as the one that would remain solid? If Judaism and Christianity are corrupted faiths in the same tradition, how can we reliably depend on Islam to remain true to God?

I love dogs. Adore them. And according to Islam, an angel cannot be present when a dog is in the room. Why? Dogs are unclean, and angels, however powerful, do not have the capability of being present with a particular animal in the vicinity. Nor can God stand the smell of pork, or of a person who hasn’t abluted himself before praying. You have to purify yourself before prayer, and if at any point after your purification, if you vomit, pass gas, defecate, or otherwise do something physically unpleasant, you have to undergo the entire purification again; otherwise God will not hear your prayer.

After researching it I’ve concluded that Islam still remains a very tribal sort of faith, with its focus on Arabia and its culture and taboos, and its legends and stories regarding certain famous figures that are peculiar to the region. Also, I can’t bring myself to quite trust Muhammad.

What a fascinating and intelligent post - you have hit the nail on the head!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Nabooru,

thanks for sharing. I hope that those who struggle with this temptation of feeling a pull to Islam will benefit from your post.

I didn’t know about the angels and dogs thing. Cute.

 

[pwlj_christ87]

here is my response to your argumentation… while i respect it i am simply just proiding my stance…

Is normal I think to question life and religion, even I have. You can ask the priest, but what they know about Islam will be limited, so you are more than welcome to ask Muslims aswell. I use sunniforum.com to ask questions.

I respect all religions, and If I wasn’t Muslim I think the next religion I would be would be Jewish because like Islam they also believe in a Monotheistic God.

We as Muslims acknowledge all the Prophets(PBUT) in Christianity and Judaism and also respect Jesus(PBUH) with high regards. There are many reasons I cannot accept Christianity:

1. God having a son, God created us, He is perfect, He doesn’t need to become human to understand us, because He is all knowelegable.

• jesus was predicted in the old testament, a suffering servant wuld have to come to earth… god did indeed create us but he never partook in our humanity… that is until he sent Jesus… and so he calls him his son, to show that he can walk on the earth like we do and yet not sin but lead a perfect example, just as the father is perfect the son is as well…

1. Evidence in bible that Jesus was not God.
   ““Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.” (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)” and lots more, but Jesus slept, ate, went to the toilet, if he was God why would he need to do all those things.

The statement jesus makes here is similar to that of “you shall hate your father if you love god”… he does not literally mean you have to hate your father, it means you have to love him less than god… the context of this statement is that jesus is simply wanting to strengthen their faith to love god…he is simply maintaing his status as a suffering servant, to serve… … and yes he had to eat sleep and go to the toilet becuase he became human!

3…The trinity, Muslims see it as Father: God, Son: Jesus, Holy Spirit: Gabriel
So we would rather worship the Father, even tho God has no son, so father is not an appropriate title for God.

I do not see how the holy spirit can be the angel gabriel?? God is one! yet three persons… all of the same substance each distinct in their form and function… we all know that in the OT God was referred to as GOD Yahweh… the son came jesus and referred to god as his father becuase that is exactly what he was, and through jesus’s example we become god’s sons and can have a relationsip with god as the father! we all know the spirit through the story of the pentecost

1. So many different versions of Bible and translation distorts meaning in the process, but the Qur’an will always remain in arabic, a Muslim from different parts of the world will always recite the same Quran and God has said he will preserve it and that is why we have many Muslim who learn it by heart. So even if we do make translations, we will do it from the original arabic, rather than a translation from a translation from a translation if u get what i mean, which distorts the meaning, hence we always learn arabic to preserve the original form.

there are different versions yes because of the language barriers, however i do not feel that they have distorted anything if you follow the catholic approved one…the church has great interpreters of thebible and scholars

But this is the basics of what we believe, you can ask others and as the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion.

I’ve read all sorts about different religions, including taoism, zoroastronism, bhuddism, but Islam is perfect for me.