Struggling with American identity

[tws]

A few years ago I had an identity crisis when I realized I could no longer remain a protestant after learning the beliefs of the early church. It was a very difficult period for me, but my family and I got through it. We are Catholics now and it was the right thing to do.

Now I am suffering from a new identity crisis – being an American. I no longer have much confidence left in America. For me, it comes down to the advance of sexual immorality, and specifically, homosexuality in America. The pro-gay message is shouted everywhere, every day, not only in secular media but even in “Christian” quarters. Just today there was a huge story in the local paper about a gay play being shown at a catholic university in my city.

In a few years, I am fairly convinced the wants of homosexuals will trump freedom of speech and religion across the entire country. Faithful Christians will be criminalized and marginalized because they do not embrace homosexuality. Businesses will be shut down. Schools will have mandatory curricula on the merits of homosexuality. Religious organizations will be forced out of business. Heck, this is already happening in those states that have legalized same-sex marriage. With the reelection of Obama, this downward spiral is accelerating.

This is also an important issue for my career. I work for the US government. I do not know if I can spend the rest of my working years supporting a government that oppresses Christians within its own borders, and force-feeds immorality on other nations as a condition for US aid.

Does anyone else share these struggles? Or can someone correct my thinking? I want to hold onto my faith in the US flag, but it is growing harder and harder.

(if this topic belongs in a different forum please move it)

 

[mikeeh]

I think science will fix it all. Once neuroscientists determine what makes people heterosexual and homosexual they will be able to develop something like a shot or pills that will give people the choice to either remain homosexual or become heterosexual.

 

[devoutchristian]

Regardless of how evil it is, the American government is still a legitimate political authority. Therefore, it is not a sin to work for the government or to be an American.

 

[Aloysium]

I’m not an American, but things don’t look that bad at the moment.
It doesn’t seem that Christians are being oppressed.
I’d hang in there as it may not turn out badly.
Sometimes you do have to close the door to one thing,
but as the saying goes, others open up.
I will pray for your country too.

 

[edwest2]

A few years ago I had an identity crisis when I realized I could no longer remain a protestant after learning the beliefs of the early church. It was a very difficult period for me, but my family and I got through it. We are Catholics now and it was the right thing to do.

Now I am suffering from a new identity crisis – being an American. I no longer have much confidence left in America. For me, it comes down to the advance of sexual immorality, and specifically, homosexuality in America. The pro-gay message is shouted everywhere, every day, not only in secular media but even in “Christian” quarters. Just today there was a huge story in the local paper about a gay play being shown at a catholic university in my city.

In a few years, I am fairly convinced the wants of homosexuals will trump freedom of speech and religion across the entire country. Faithful Christians will be criminalized and marginalized because they do not embrace homosexuality. Businesses will be shut down. Schools will have mandatory curricula on the merits of homosexuality. Religious organizations will be forced out of business. Heck, this is already happening in those states that have legalized same-sex marriage. With the reelection of Obama, this downward spiral is accelerating.

This is also an important issue for my career. I work for the US government. I do not know if I can spend the rest of my working years supporting a government that oppresses Christians within its own borders, and force-feeds immorality on other nations as a condition for US aid.

Does anyone else share these struggles? Or can someone correct my thinking? I want to hold onto my faith in the US flag, but it is growing harder and harder.

(if this topic belongs in a different forum please move it)

The America I grew up with is not the America of today.

The media I grew up with reflected and respected Christian values. For the most part, it does not do this anymore.

I no longer consider myself a mainstream American. Small, radical groups changed America, gradually, over a 40 year period. Then they changed the media.

The answer? Form friendships with other practicing Catholics. Catholics that reject most modern entertainment and have found good, clean, wholesome alternatives. Catholics that do not go to see most movies or watch most TV shows.

I won’t ask what you do for the government. I would suggest looking for other work.

Have hope, always. Ask God what He would like you to do. And here’s a few words from Pope Francis:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301200.htm

Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[georget]

I’ve always loved my country, I have 2 sons and both of them served this country, wearing the uniform, they enlisted right after 9-11, as a member of traditional music groups I’ve sung patriotic songs in front of large groups of people sometimes shedding tears as I did it. I’ve been to Arlington Cemetery at least 25 times and planted many flags there, I could go on but you get the idea. The other night as I turned off the TV I said to my wife,“If any of my grandchildren told me they were enlisting in this military I would do my utmost to make them reconsider, I don’t believe in what we stand for anymore”. Don’t misunderstand, I still love our old traditions and I still love our flag and the young people who serve with honor, but I don’t love what we’re becoming and I despise the filth and violence we export to the world. God help us but we’ve lost our way, greed, envy and self gratification is the new way, do I believe that a persecution is coming? Up until maybe 4 years ago I’d have called you crazy,now, maybe.
God bless

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

A few years ago I had an identity crisis when I realized I could no longer remain a protestant after learning the beliefs of the early church. It was a very difficult period for me, but my family and I got through it. We are Catholics now and it was the right thing to do.

Now I am suffering from a new identity crisis – being an American. I no longer have much confidence left in America. For me, it comes down to the advance of sexual immorality, and specifically, homosexuality in America. The pro-gay message is shouted everywhere, every day, not only in secular media but even in “Christian” quarters. Just today there was a huge story in the local paper about a gay play being shown at a catholic university in my city.

In a few years, I am fairly convinced the wants of homosexuals will trump freedom of speech and religion across the entire country. Faithful Christians will be criminalized and marginalized because they do not embrace homosexuality. Businesses will be shut down. Schools will have mandatory curricula on the merits of homosexuality. Religious organizations will be forced out of business. Heck, this is already happening in those states that have legalized same-sex marriage. With the reelection of Obama, this downward spiral is accelerating.

This is also an important issue for my career. I work for the US government. I do not know if I can spend the rest of my working years supporting a government that oppresses Christians within its own borders, and force-feeds immorality on other nations as a condition for US aid.

Does anyone else share these struggles? Or can someone correct my thinking? I want to hold onto my faith in the US flag, but it is growing harder and harder.

(if this topic belongs in a different forum please move it)

The Christians who reside in the USA are exactly in the same position as were Abraham and his family when the resided in Sodom and Gomorrah. But unlike Abraham and his family, we can’t leave the USA and go to a moral land, since there is no moral land. The WHOLE PLANET is Sodom and Gomorrah now, and it is not going to get better, until the Glorious Return of Jesus the Lord.

Even quitting your employment with the U.S. government won’t do any good. Why not? Because ALL the corporations are just as corrupt as all the governments. See this thread on this forum, of a Catholic trying to decide whether to quit a job with a private employer who is doing deceiving its customers: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=765090

I know there is this script in some political circles that says: “Government is evil, private enterprise is holy and pure.” But I can report, from work experience in both “sectors,” the 7 Deadly Sins are as alive and well in the “private” sphere as in the public. If only it were so simple as Ayn Rand depicted things! Trust St. Augustine. Trust the New Testament.

Don’t panic. Gay marriage will be the law in every U.S. state within the next five years. Both major parties are going to end up supporting this, as it is obvious to see already happening. But so what? This has no effect on real marriage. The laws of the USA or any U.S. state has no effect on the Kingdom of God. Pilates judgment against Jesus was null and void in the Kingdom of God from the moment he issued it.

So, leaving the USA or employment with the Federal Government or any state government, or the U.S. military, or whatever, won’t gain you any protection or insulation from the plaque of immorality that blankets the planet earth. Salvation lies not in secular government or in private enterprise (and freedom from secular government).

Salvation lies in the Kingdom of God. Salvation lies in Jesus Christ, in His Church.

Take the case of young Joseph Ratzinger. He was drafted into the German Army during World War II. He hated Hitler and the entire Nazi movement. He knew very well that Germany was under a government that was an evil regime that oppressed Christians and killed millions of innocent people. Yet, what could he do? Emigrating to another country was not an option. He could have chosen to be a martyr, like Blessed Franz Jaggerstatter (The Nazis drafted him into the army but he refused to serve on grounds of his Catholic faith, and was executed.). But young Joseph Ratzinger did what his nation’s secular government ordered him to do. He was ordered to make the Nazi salute, and he did. He was ordered to take the oath pledging absolute obedience to the will of Adolf Hitler, and he did. He was ordered to operate anti-aircraft artillery in defense of German armament factories, and he did. Did all that make young Joseph Ratzinger evil? NO! He was just obeying the orders of superiors. His country was at war. He did his duty. But inwardly, he kept the Faith.

That’s all anyone can do, I think, unless they feel some special call to be a martyr. We are not called to reform Sodom and Gomorrah anymore than Abraham was. The Church is called to evangelize, and those who repent and give up their rebellion of hate, greed and lust will be saved. But Sodom and Gomorrah as a whole is destined to be destroyed, not saved. This should not distress us. This is all explained in the Book of Revelation. Don’t listen to political scripts and talk radio talking points. Listen to the Word of God. Everything is going to be ALRIGHT for those who stay loyal to God, and the rest will be swept into the dustbin of history.

 

[edwest2]

I’ve always loved my country, I have 2 sons and both of them served this country, wearing the uniform, they enlisted right after 9-11, as a member of traditional music groups I’ve sung patriotic songs in front of large groups of people sometimes shedding tears as I did it. I’ve been to Arlington Cemetery at least 25 times and planted many flags there, I could go on but you get the idea. The other night as I turned off the TV I said to my wife,“If any of my grandchildren told me they were enlisting in this military I would do my utmost to make them reconsider, I don’t believe in what we stand for anymore”. Don’t misunderstand, I still love our old traditions and I still love our flag and the young people who serve with honor, but I don’t love what we’re becoming and I despise the filth and violence we export to the world. God help us but we’ve lost our way, greed, envy and self gratification is the new way, do I believe that a persecution is coming? Up until maybe 4 years ago I’d have called you crazy,now, maybe.
God bless

My father was a World War II vet. We were told they fought for God and Country, but that message gradually began to change.

Have hope in God and do not despair.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301200.htm

Have courage as those who risked all in battle, and be determined to not join the others on the wide road to destruction through prayer to God.

Peace,
Ed

 

[georget]

My father was a World War II vet. We were told they fought for God and Country, but that message gradually began to change.

Have hope in God and do not despair.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301200.htm

Have courage as those who risked all in battle, and be determined to not join the others on the wide road to destruction through prayer to God.

Peace,
Ed

My Father fought in world war 2 also, and loved this country passionately. I’ll keep praying for her redemption.
God bless

 

[sowinskija]

I think science will fix it all. Once neuroscientists determine what makes people heterosexual and homosexual they will be able to develop something like a shot or pills that will give people the choice to either remain homosexual or become heterosexual.

Then those scientists will be blamed for treating homosexuality as a deasise .

 

[Seeker1961]

Let’s see…today, this American started the day with prayer over my meal. After that, it was off to Church-we have a public building for that, we don’t have to hide in a basement for fear of the authorities finding out. After Church, I made plans with friends to come to a Bible Study on Monday, again in a public building. We’ll use Bibles that were free on the Internet and purchased in local stores-right out in plain view. Then, a visit to Starbucks, where we prayed over our food-right out in public-and chatted about the homily and what we took away from it and how it challenged us. Anyone in the shop could hear us, yet again we had no fear of arrest or imprisonment.

Tonight, we’re all watching a TV show about the Bible, and I’m even talking about religion with a bunch of strangers…not worrying about them reporting me to authorities.

If you all think it’s so terrible being a Christian in America-try doing it in China or the Middle East.

I’m not saying there aren’t issues,but try having a little perspective. It’s insulting to Christians who really ARE living under persecution. Let’s be more grateful to God for the blessings we have here.

 

[georget]

Let’s see…today, this American started the day with prayer over my meal. After that, it was off to Church-we have a public building for that, we don’t have to hide in a basement for fear of the authorities finding out. After Church, I made plans with friends to come to a Bible Study on Monday, again in a public building. We’ll use Bibles that were free on the Internet and purchased in local stores-right out in plain view. Then, a visit to Starbucks, where we prayed over our food-right out in public-and chatted about the homily and what we took away from it and how it challenged us. Anyone in the shop could hear us, yet again we had no fear of arrest or imprisonment.

Tonight, we’re all watching a TV show about the Bible, and I’m even talking about religion with a bunch of strangers…not worrying about them reporting me to authorities.

If you all think it’s so terrible being a Christian in America-try doing it in China or the Middle East.

I’m not saying there aren’t issues,but try having a little perspective. It’s insulting to Christians who really ARE living under persecution. Let’s be more grateful to God for the blessings we have here.

 

[SanAgustin]

Let’s see…today, this American started the day with prayer over my meal. After that, it was off to Church-we have a public building for that, we don’t have to hide in a basement for fear of the authorities finding out. After Church, I made plans with friends to come to a Bible Study on Monday, again in a public building. We’ll use Bibles that were free on the Internet and purchased in local stores-right out in plain view. Then, a visit to Starbucks, where we prayed over our food-right out in public-and chatted about the homily and what we took away from it and how it challenged us. Anyone in the shop could hear us, yet again we had no fear of arrest or imprisonment.

Tonight, we’re all watching a TV show about the Bible, and I’m even talking about religion with a bunch of strangers…not worrying about them reporting me to authorities.

If you all think it’s so terrible being a Christian in America-try doing it in China or the Middle East.

I’m not saying there aren’t issues,but try having a little perspective. It’s insulting to Christians who really ARE living under persecution. Let’s be more grateful to God for the blessings we have here.

Amen!

BTW, I lived my Catholic faith more fully here when I migrated to the US than in my native country, who on paper is “90% Catholic” …

 

[georget]

Let’s see…today, this American started the day with prayer over my meal. After that, it was off to Church-we have a public building for that, we don’t have to hide in a basement for fear of the authorities finding out. After Church, I made plans with friends to come to a Bible Study on Monday, again in a public building. We’ll use Bibles that were free on the Internet and purchased in local stores-right out in plain view. Then, a visit to Starbucks, where we prayed over our food-right out in public-and chatted about the homily and what we took away from it and how it challenged us. Anyone in the shop could hear us, yet again we had no fear of arrest or imprisonment.

Tonight, we’re all watching a TV show about the Bible, and I’m even talking about religion with a bunch of strangers…not worrying about them reporting me to authorities.

If you all think it’s so terrible being a Christian in America-try doing it in China or the Middle East.

I’m not saying there aren’t issues,but try having a little perspective. It’s insulting to Christians who really ARE living under persecution. Let’s be more grateful to God for the blessings we have here.

Exactly, we were discussing the issues, and there are many, speaking for myself I never said it was terrible being a Christian in America, and I’m quite aware of all the persecution going on in the world ,both my sons were there to see it for themselves, and so I am grateful for the freedoms that we have, and I’m grateful to those who laid their lives down for me to have them. But those same freedoms are under attack, and the values that inspired those freedoms are being eroded, and because I do love my country I am worried about it, and to not worry about it in my opinion(for what it’s worth) would be to dishonor those who died to preserve those freedoms and values. They asked us to be "Ever Vigilant"and so it’s the least we can do. I can’t speak for the other posters, but for me I’m quite comfortable with my perspective. May God bless America. And may God bless you.

 

[JohnTomHoc]

A few years ago I had an identity crisis when I realized I could no longer remain a protestant after learning the beliefs of the early church. It was a very difficult period for me, but my family and I got through it. We are Catholics now and it was the right thing to do.

Now I am suffering from a new identity crisis – being an American. I no longer have much confidence left in America. For me, it comes down to the advance of sexual immorality, and specifically, homosexuality in America. The pro-gay message is shouted everywhere, every day, not only in secular media but even in “Christian” quarters. Just today there was a huge story in the local paper about a gay play being shown at a catholic university in my city.

In a few years, I am fairly convinced the wants of homosexuals will trump freedom of speech and religion across the entire country. Faithful Christians will be criminalized and marginalized because they do not embrace homosexuality. Businesses will be shut down. Schools will have mandatory curricula on the merits of homosexuality. Religious organizations will be forced out of business. Heck, this is already happening in those states that have legalized same-sex marriage. With the reelection of Obama, this downward spiral is accelerating.

This is also an important issue for my career. I work for the US government. I do not know if I can spend the rest of my working years supporting a government that oppresses Christians within its own borders, and force-feeds immorality on other nations as a condition for US aid.

Does anyone else share these struggles? Or can someone correct my thinking? I want to hold onto my faith in the US flag, but it is growing harder and harder.

(if this topic belongs in a different forum please move it)

There’s a book which is out of print called “The Protestant Crusade” by Ray Allen Billington, which details the oppression that Catholics faced from aggressive protestantism in the pre-Civil War period. (Daniel Day-Lewis won an Oscar ten years ago for playing one of the most notorious anti-Catholic gangsters in New York during the Civil War.) In 1928, the Catholic candidate for president was defeated by the same virulent anti-Catholic prejudice. And JFK was obliged to say publically that he wouldn’t be obeying papal orders but his country’s laws.

The U.S. has never been friendly to the Church or to her children, only grudgingly so.

That said, staying in your position as long as it doesn’t require the direct violation of the moral law may be part of your vocation. Your service to God, not to the country where you happen to be born, is the important thing, and being a good civil servant when you vehemently oppose the elevation of specific policies may itself be a grace for you & a sign to others. Just as someone who doesn’t take their spouse’s loss of interest or even infidelity as an excuse to leave a marriage, so remaining a good public servant when the conditions are bad can be meritorious.

 

[Limerickman]

There are plenty of reasons to feel ashamed to be an American.
Homosexuality being the least of the reasons.

A country founded upon imperialism will die by imperialism and rightly so.

 

[BobCatholic]

I think science will fix it all. Once neuroscientists determine what makes people heterosexual and homosexual they will be able to develop something like a shot or pills that will give people the choice to either remain homosexual or become heterosexual.

Such a shot or pill will never get past our government. Just look at how California treats homosexual reparative therapy - banned it outright.

Science does not matter to those who wish to worship the pelvic region.

 

[Moore11]

A few years ago I had an identity crisis when I realized I could no longer remain a protestant after learning the beliefs of the early church. It was a very difficult period for me, but my family and I got through it. We are Catholics now and it was the right thing to do.

Now I am suffering from a new identity crisis – being an American. I no longer have much confidence left in America. For me, it comes down to the advance of sexual immorality, and specifically, homosexuality in America. The pro-gay message is shouted everywhere, every day, not only in secular media but even in “Christian” quarters. Just today there was a huge story in the local paper about a gay play being shown at a catholic university in my city.

In a few years, I am fairly convinced the wants of homosexuals will trump freedom of speech and religion across the entire country. Faithful Christians will be criminalized and marginalized because they do not embrace homosexuality. Businesses will be shut down. Schools will have mandatory curricula on the merits of homosexuality. Religious organizations will be forced out of business. Heck, this is already happening in those states that have legalized same-sex marriage. With the reelection of Obama, this downward spiral is accelerating.

This is also an important issue for my career. I work for the US government. I do not know if I can spend the rest of my working years supporting a government that oppresses Christians within its own borders, and force-feeds immorality on other nations as a condition for US aid.

Does anyone else share these struggles? Or can someone correct my thinking? I want to hold onto my faith in the US flag, but it is growing harder and harder.

(if this topic belongs in a different forum please move it)

You know, I struggle with this too. And my thoughts on it are this.

1. “America” is not a religion. It is not the same to me as a protestant/ Catholic debate as much as it is a country in history that has lost it’s way and has a choice to make.
2. I am ashamed of my country. Not just “America” but lots of modern culture that tends to be western or America driven. I am sorry and fearful of my country. But ultimately God and His Church should be our nationality.

 

[JohnTomHoc]

1. “America” is not a religion. It is not the same to me as a protestant/ Catholic debate as much as it is a country in history that has lost it’s way and has a choice to make.
   .

But Americanism became a religion for many generations after the deaths of the revolutionary generation. It was still very much in effect when I was born – and then went out of fashion for a bit, but then came roaring back after the fall of the Soviet Union & into overdrive after the September 11 attacks.

Americanism ceased to be a demi-religion for me after the Soviet bloc dissolved, but U.S. imperial designs did not.

As one priest noted during the coverage of Pope Francis’ first days, “John Paul told us that we should stop thinking of America as just the United States of America; that it was all, north and south, one America.”

 

[mikeeh]

Then those scientists will be blamed for treating homosexuality as a disease .

They’ll just market it as another option. If you can give hormones to transgender people you should be able to give heterosexual pills to anyone who wants them.

Such a shot or pill will never get past our government. Just look at how California treats homosexual reparative therapy - banned it outright.

Science does not matter to those who wish to worship the pelvic region.

That’s why we have conservative states. Besides shots and pills are an extreme case. Maybe science will be able to tell mothers what foods to eat and not to eat during pregnancy. I read that women who stress during the pregnancy of a boy are more likely to have a homosexual son. And with today’s stressful society it’s no wonder there are so many.