Struggling with converting to Catholicism

[KnowledgeSeeker]

I was raised Protestant and recently discovered the Catholic Church was the one created by the apostles. I want to join and go through the RCIA, but I have some questions/concerns that are preventing me from fully committing. I hope that these can be answered so that I can understand them better.

-I see so many videos of Catholics walking around and carrying these massive statues of Mary that are adorned with different clothing and golden fixtures. Almost as if they are worshiping them. I understand that Mary said yes to God, but so did Jesus when he chose to go through with his crucifixion. Was Jesus “yes” not so much greater than Mary’s? Why not have these large processions carrying a statue of Jesus instead of Mary?

-I have read articles of Catholics that flock to the streets to have a chance to touch the Black Nazarene statue as they believe it somehow has the power to work miracles. People fighting one another just to get close to the statue as if it were a real person. I know that this has been referred to as “devotion” by Pope Innocent X. How is this not considered idol worship since they are putting their faith and belief in the statue itself? Why is it so important to touch this statue when it is only a material thing that was created by the hands of men here on earth?

-Mary’s immaculate conception has been explained as though she was born free of original sin because of the merits of Jesus future birth, death, and resurrection. That God kept her free of sin because of her going to give birth to Jesus. However, what if she would have said no to the request from God to give birth to Jesus? She would have been given the gift of freedom from original sin for no reason. Some may argue that God saw the future and knew she would say yes and that’s why she was kept free of original sin. However, would that not also mean that God chose her because he knew she would say yes? If that were the case would that not downplay the veneration and adoration that she is given for saying yes to God since she would have simply been hand selected by God himself because he knew she would say yes? Does it not seem even more plausible and even a greater feat that she instead was not given the gift of freedom from original sin, but that she lived such a perfect life to God’s standards that she found favor with God and this is why she was approached by Him to give birth to His son? Some may argue that without her being free from original sin then Jesus wouldn’t have been free from it as well since he was born from her womb. However, why is it not considered just as easy for God to keep Jesus free from original sin through His conception just as it was thought that God did for Mary? If Mary needed to be free from original sin to keep Jesus from it since he was to be born of her womb, would that not also mean that Mary’s mother would have needed to be free of original sin as well to keep Mary from it and then Mary’s Grandmother to keep Mary’s mother from it and so on and so forth? Would it not make more sense that Jesus conception was indeed the immaculate one and not Mary’s?

 

[Maximilian75]

-I see so many videos of Catholics walking around and carrying these massive statues of Mary that are adorned with different clothing and golden fixtures. Almost as if they are worshiping them. I understand that Mary said yes to God, but so did Jesus when he chose to go through with his crucifixion. Was Jesus “yes” not so much greater than Mary’s? Why not have these large processions carrying a statue of Jesus instead of Mary?

Christ’s ‘Yes’ would not have been possible without that of Mary. And we do have processions with Christ, with Him fully present in the Eucharist.

putting their faith and belief in the statue itself?

What makes you think we’re doing that? By offering devotion to the Black Nazarene, we offer glory to God.

Additionally, concerning your two objections with images, I offer an analogy.

If I carry a picture of my deceased grandmother with me and occasionally kiss it, am I loving the image or my grandmother? Obviously, my grandmother.

By venerating images, we help our limited human minds to slightly comprehend spiritual realities. We are not venerating the images themselves, but rather that which they stand for.

 

[LittleFlower378]

If people are worshiping the statue as God, then there is idol worship. But that not Catholic venaration. The statue is a sacramental so it does give grace, but it is the heart that is asking for the Saints intercession, not worshiping the statue as greater than God. As the poster above says, God gets the Glory! We do need the help of the saints and angels!

God knew Mary would say yes, but she still had free will, she had to say 'yes."

 

[ProdglArchitect]

-I see so many videos of Catholics walking around and carrying these massive statues of Mary that are adorned with different clothing and golden fixtures. Almost as if they are worshiping them. I understand that Mary said yes to God, but so did Jesus when he chose to go through with his crucifixion. Was Jesus “yes” not so much greater than Mary’s? Why not have these large processions carrying a statue of Jesus instead of Mary?

We have Jesus-centric processions as well. In fact, the feast of Corpus Christi is coming up soon, and on that day you’ll find Eucharistic processions across the entire world. A Eucharistic procession is infinitely more amazing that one of these other processions because we are literally carrying the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ through the streets.

Usually when you see those sorts of Marian processions, they are in relation to a particular apparition of Mary, so as the apparition at Lourdes, or Our Lady of Guadalupe. These apparitions have had massive impacts on the societies in which they occur, so the people like to celebrate that impact by honoring her. (For example, Mary’s appearance at Guadalupe heralded a mass conversion of native people away from their human-sacrifice practicing religions)

-I have read articles of Catholics that flock to the streets to have a chance to touch the Black Nazarene statue as they believe it somehow has the power to work miracles. clipped for length

Because they are not worshiping the statue, they are recognizing it’s supernatural capacity to heal. This sort of devotion is seen in the New Testament. In Acts we get a clear account of people clamoring over each other to try to touch the Apostles, as even doing so little as touching the tassel from their robes healed one woman. There’s a similar story in the OT where a dead person touching the bones of Elijah’s (Elisha’s?) decomposed corpse and was brought back to life.

I know you don’t hear about it much, but these sorts of miracles do still occur, and if you knew that a particular object was known to heal those who touched it, then wouldn’t you try desperately to have yourself healed?

-Mary’s immaculate conception has been explained as though she was born free of original sin because of the merits of Jesus future birth, death, and resurrection. That God kept her free of sin because of her going to give birth to Jesus. However, what if she would have said no to the request from God to give birth to Jesus?

I can’t cover everything you wrote, but as for this, we can’t know. This sort of speculation is ultimately pointless. She didn’t say no, she gave a resounding and complete YES! to our Lord, and through that decision helped bring about the salvation of humanity.

I wish you the best on your journey. Feel free to come to us with any questions ^^

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Thank you for your responses I sincerely do appreciate them.

Because they are not worshiping the statue, they are recognizing it’s supernatural capacity to heal. This sort of devotion is seen in the New Testament. In Acts we get a clear account of people clamoring over each other to try to touch the Apostles, as even doing so little as touching the tassel from their robes healed one woman. There’s a similar story in the OT where a dead person touching the bones of Elijah’s (Elisha’s?) decomposed corpse and was brought back to life.

I know you don’t hear about it much, but these sorts of miracles do still occur, and if you knew that a particular object was known to heal those who touched it, then wouldn’t you try desperately to have yourself healed?

Your analogy in reference to the black nazarene statue really hit home for me. I am reminded of the bronze serpent that Moses used to protect his people from dying of snake bites. I never considered that these people may be considering the black nazarene statue as something similar to that or even similar to the effects of touching Jesus himself or his apostles. I suppose there shouldn’t be too much concern as long as the glory is given to God if they are healed and not to the statue itself. That was ultimately what led to the destruction of the bronze serpent as people began giving their praise and glory to the serpent itself and not the one who gave it the power it possessed, God.

 

[DeniseNY]

I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of veneration. Venerations is honoring; not worshiping. Catholics do not worship idols, icons, or statues.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Thank you for your responses I sincerely do appreciate them. Your analogy in reference to the black nazarene statue really hit home for me. I am reminded of the bronze serpent that Moses used to protect his people from dying of snake bites. I never considered that these people may be considering the black nazarene statue as something similar to that or even similar to the effects of touching Jesus himself of his apostles. I suppose there shouldn’t be too much concern as long as the glory is given to God if they are healed and not to the statue itself. That was ultimately what led to the destruction of the bronze serpent as people began giving their praise and glory to the serpent itself and not the one who gave it the power it possessed, God.

This is exactly what happens, at least with faithful Catholics. We won’t deny that some people do take it too far, but that is in violation of Church teaching.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Additionally, concerning your two objections with images, I offer an analogy.

If I carry a picture of my deceased grandmother with me and occasionally kiss it, am I loving the image or my grandmother? Obviously, my grandmother.

By venerating images, we help our limited human minds to slightly comprehend spiritual realities. We are not venerating the images themselves, but rather that which they stand for.

Thank you both for your (name removed by moderator)ut on this.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

I never thought of it this way. In my mind and the way I had been taught, Mary was just a really good “Christian” and lived a life free of sin and mistakes. I never considered that even though she may have done that, there was still the stain of original sin that would indeed be considered soiled by God. Thank you for you (name removed by moderator)ut on this as well.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Thank you for this information. I think this is where I was struggling with the “worship” of Mary. Due to the English language as you mentioned when I hear venerate I think worship. I didn’t realize that there were technically better words in Latin to describe different levels. Including that information has made it more clear to me.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Thank you for this even more detailed explanation. I sincerely appreciate it.

 

[guanophore]

I want to join and go through the RCIA

Welcome KnowledgeSeeker!

RCIA is for people exploring joining. You can enroll in RCIA without joining. It is a great environment to learn, ask questions, and meet others who are doing the same.

Was Jesus “yes” not so much greater than Mary’s? Why not have these large processions carrying a statue of Jesus instead of Mary?

Marian devotions are not a required part of the faith, though encouraged. There are some abuses of Marian devotions and there are people that seem to create an idol out of Mary. But don’t be swayed by those who have left the path!

Why is it so important to touch this statue when it is only a material thing that was created by the hands of men here on earth?

Sometimes people do get out of hand when they feel desperate to reach out to God. People crowded Jesus constantly. Catholics value material things as a conduit of God’s healing as He has always worked through these things - bones, water, mud, cloth, sand, oil, sanctuaries, etc.

11 And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. Acts 19

Some people do become confused and place their faith in the material item, but again, do not be deterred because of the ignorance of some. It is God who heals through all these things.

is it not considered just as easy for God to keep Jesus free from original sin through His conception just as it was thought that God did for Mary?

God could have done this however He desired. If He wished, Jesus could have appeared as a full grown man. But Mary was created as the New Eve, free of original sin as Eve was. She is the ark of the New Covenant. Unlike Eve, Mary chose to obey God. Jesus’ flesh came from her untainted flesh, so that He could be fully man, and fully God.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

I want to join and go through the RCIA

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut as well. I have really appreciated everyone’s explanations on these questions I had. I’ve been blessed by all of you.

 

[tryphon]

Please read “Rome, sweet home” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. Kimberly, in particular found it very hard to understand the Marian devotion of the Catholic Church. This book WILL make a difference in your search for the true way towards the real Church. https://www.amazon.com/Rome-Sweet-Home-Journey-Catholicism/dp/0898704782

 

[joeybaggz]

Why is it so important to touch this statue when it is only a material thing that was created by the hands of men here on earth?

The other posters have done a complete job of answering your question. Simply we reserve worship for God and God alone. Devotion is a different ‘animal’

One thing I don’t think has been mentioned. We are a church that is 2000 years old (give or take a couple). WE were around long before whatever denomination you were steeped in as a younger person. I attend a Basilica at a monastery for mass. It abounds with marvelous statues, art depictions, stations of the cross, and magnificent stained glass windows. I think there are twenty, stained glass windows that it. There are depictions of the Nativity of Christ, the descent of the Holy Spirit, the child found in the temple, Joseph and Jesus as a boy in the carpenter shop with Mary bringing food and drink, and a whole host of others. In magnificent multiple colors and detail. These things were commonplace in the early church, especially the middle ages, and continue down until today. The reason, - until about the mid nineteenth century, the vast majority of the catholic faithful were illiterate. They could not read. So, when the Mass celebrant wanted to talk about a certain incident or teaching In Christ’s life, he would direct the congregation to a statue, or a stained glass window portraying the incident he was extolling. The people in the pew couldn’t read about the prodigal son, or the descent of the Holy Spirit, or the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, but they could look at the representation in the window and understand the speakers intent. Visual aids have always been a tradition, and a tool, of the church in the education and edification of the faithful.
Hope that adds to your understanding.

Edited to add. As you study Catholicism, especially its history, remember, much of what we hold dear today, was held dear by our ancestors, a thousand years ago. That is not a case when one considers Protestantism, especially Pentecostal or fundamental Protestantism which is only about 100 years old.

 

[HeDa]

It sounds like you are diving into the Catholic “lingo” words.

It is helpful to know that the Catholic Church is very much a “both/and” Church and not an “either/or”. (Both Jesus and Mary and not either one of them. Faith and reason and not only faith or reason.) Also “We are saved here and now but not yet” as we haven’t said our final “Yes” to Christ yet.

It takes some time to learn to think as a Catholic to really appreciate the depth of the Christian faith. Once you do, you don’t want to leave.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Please read “Rome, sweet home” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. Kimberly, in particular found it very hard to understand the Marian devotion of the Catholic Church. This book WILL make a difference in your search for the true way towards the real Church.

Thank you for this recommendation. I will certainly look into it.

One thing I don’t think has been mentioned. We are a church that is 2000 years old (give or take a couple). WE were around long before whatever denomination you were steeped in as a younger person. I attend a Basilica at a monastery for mass. It abounds with marvelous statues, art depictions, stations of the cross, and magnificent stained glass windows. I think there are twenty, stained glass windows that it. There are depictions of the Nativity of Christ, the descent of the Holy Spirit, the child found in the temple, Joseph and Jesus as a boy in the carpenter shop with Mary bringing food and drink, and a whole host of others. In magnificent multiple colors and detail. These things were commonplace in the early church, especially the middle ages, and continue down until today. The reason, - until about the mid nineteenth century, the vast majority of the catholic faithful were illiterate. They could not read. So, when the Mass celebrant wanted to talk about a certain incident or teaching In Christ’s life, he would direct the congregation to a statue, or a stained glass window portraying the incident he was extolling. The people in the pew couldn’t read about the prodigal son, or the descent of the Holy Spirit, or the sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, but they could look at the representation in the window and understand the speakers intent. Visual aids have always been a tradition, and a tool, of the church in the education and edification of the faithful.
Hope that adds to your understanding.

This makes a lot of sense as well. I didn’t take into account the teaching aspect of the statues and pictures.

It takes some time to learn to think as a Catholic to really appreciate the depth of the Christian faith. Once you do, you don’t want to leave.

I am looking forward to the day that I do fully understand the Catholic faith and be able to think the way that the founding fathers of the Church did. Then I can look back at this time in my life and appreciate the decision that I made.

 

[joeybaggz]

I am looking forward to the day that I do fully understand the Catholic faith and be able to think the way that the founding fathers of the Church did. Then I can look back at this time in my life and appreciate the decision that I made.

Seeker. I am a “cradle” Catholic. Baptized when I was 8 weeks old. I have been exposed to, studied, and followed the Catholic faith for over 70 years. And take it from me, I don’t think anyone ever “fully understands” it. It is so rich with tradition, interpretation, and revelation that to my way of thinking, “one just jumps in the back seat and enjoys the ride.”

I wish you well in your quest, and prayers are offered for your, and everyone like you, success.

Shalom

 

[HeDa]

One step at a time and no rush. You have time to learn until your last breath.

It is not only learning the faith, but also growing as a human being to become the one God had in mind when He created you.

 

[guanophore]

I am looking forward to the day that I do fully understand the Catholic faith and be able to think the way that the founding fathers of the Church did.

It was reading the Father’s that brought me back to the faith into which I was baptized. You might want to consider starting with this book.