Struggling with crossdressing

[Leegal]

I know the difference. What I meant to convey was, if a straight male, who is not interested in changing his sex, likes to crossdress, his crossdressing is usually tied to some sort of sexual fetish.

No need to ask how I know, but it’s just my quack opinion.

It’s not a quack opinion. It is so. A cder has a fetish and usually it has something to do with sexual arousal and excitement. But it’s also an attachment that society does not recognize as the norm.

So, there may be a non sexual component. My friend “underdresses” which is to wear female underwear under fully male clothing. He’s also a good photographer. So, he might underdress (or wears a kilt – he’s Scots/Irish) to go out and take pics. There’s no sexual element. It satisfies some aspect of his personality. Does it have to do with sex – sometimes. Not always.

 

[Debora123]

I’m glad no one is condemning you. We should not be condemning our brothers and sisters.

But to be honest, I do not understand why the responses given here are along the lines, of it’s fine - don’t worry about it.

Deuteronomy 22: 5: "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. "

It may be something that you cannot help, which would reduce culpability, but I definitely think you should get counseling.

That quote from the bible doesn’t literally mean that we must not wear each other’s clothes. It is probably more in reference to homosexuality, or trying to change genders… etc etc. More along those lines.

If that quote really were as literal and simplified as you make it out to be, then I’d be committing a mortal sin right now for wearing my husband’s T shirt and boxer shorts. Not to mention the whole story of Joan of Arc being a great saint would totally fall flat.

 

[Debora123]

It’s not a quack opinion. It is so. A cder has a fetish and usually it has something to do with sexual arousal and excitement. But it’s also an attachment that society does not recognize as the norm.

So, there may be a non sexual component. My friend “underdresses” which is to wear female underwear under fully male clothing. He’s also a good photographer. So, he might underdress (or wears a kilt – he’s Scots/Irish) to go out and take pics. There’s no sexual element. It satisfies some aspect of his personality. Does it have to do with sex – sometimes. Not always.

Very true.

I’d also like to add that the OP has already made clear that he no longer has sexual feelings of any sort in conjunction to his cd. Best take his word for it, rather than assume he is lying.

 

[Leegal]

That quote from the bible doesn’t literally mean that we must not wear each other’s clothes. It is probably more in reference to homosexuality, or trying to change genders… etc etc. More along those lines.

If that quote really were as literal and simplified as you make it out to be, then I’d be committing a mortal sin right now for wearing my husband’s T shirt and boxer shorts. Not to mention the whole story of Joan of Arc being a great saint would totally fall flat.

Well, the Bible also says that we cannot wear an article of clothing that is made of 2 different materials, not only wool and linen. We don’t follow that. I don’t know if Jews follow that any longer. Am I in sin if I wear a cotton/polyester blend woman’s blouse? The Bible alternatively says a man has to marry his brother’s widow. Then it also says that a man cannot marry his brother’s widow.

And Christ came to give us the new “Word.” I don’t take the OT literally.

 

[Debora123]

Well, the Bible also says that we cannot wear an article of clothing that is made of 2 different materials, not only wool and linen. We don’t follow that. I don’t know if Jews follow that any longer. Am I in sin if I wear a cotton/polyester blend woman’s blouse? The Bible alternatively says a man has to marry his brother’s widow. Then it also says that a man cannot marry his brother’s widow.

And Christ came to give us the new “Word.” I don’t take the OT literally.

Nor do I.

 

[TrueLight]

Very true.

I’d also like to add that the OP has already made clear that he no longer has sexual feelings of any sort in conjunction to his cd. Best take his word for it, rather than assume he is lying.

I’m not accusing him of lying.

Well, the Bible also says that we cannot wear an article of clothing that is made of 2 different materials, not only wool and linen. We don’t follow that. I don’t know if Jews follow that any longer. Am I in sin if I wear a cotton/polyester blend woman’s blouse? The Bible alternatively says a man has to marry his brother’s widow. Then it also says that a man cannot marry his brother’s widow.

And Christ came to give us the new “Word.” I don’t take the OT literally.

So maybe we shouldn’t take anything literally from the Bible.

I admit that I am bringing my Protestant understanding of crossdressing into the picture so if you have some Catholic references regarding crossdressing, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[carguy]

Have you spoke to a priest? I would not say that it is a sin unless you are doing it out of lust, and/or it leads to masterbation, watching porn, or something of that ilk. So if a priest says its ok and as you say your wife is fine with it than you will be fine.
God Bless

 

[Leegal]

So maybe we shouldn’t take anything literally from the Bible.

I admit that I am bringing my Protestant understanding of crossdressing into the picture so if you have some Catholic references regarding crossdressing, it would be greatly appreciated.

No, I did not mean that the entire OT is to be ignored. But, my examples of the wearing of blended clothing, etc. is no longer followed by either Protestants and Catholics. I eat pork; Jews do not. I don’t feel in sin because I eat pork sometimes. Jews who do not eat pork are also following their faith. It is right.

Christ did come to give us the new way, the truth and the light. I can see the indwelling Christ in my friend, despite is propensity to crossdress. The OP seeks to reconcile this need with his faith and his duty as a husband in a proper manner – throught spiritual guidance and counseling.

Even if I had a Catholic teaching that prohibited cding, my moral conscience could not condemn this poster or my friend – because I don’t see it as intrinsically sinful. And, I must follow my moral conscience.

I know that Matthew 7 says “judge not, lest ye be judged.”

If I find something more on point, I will post it.

 

[TrueLight]

If I find something more on point, I will post it.

Yes please!

 

[Leegal]

I found this from a priest on another site.

He quotes Deut. 22:5 and then says:

"Regardless if we interpret the above verse literally or not, I do think that crossdressing is a problem. The sin of such an act would come from two places. First of all, it certainly would cause public scandal to the individual and those around them. (family) For that reason alone it should be avoided. Secondly, many times crossdressing involves a sexual dimension and if this is the case the Church is very clear on its sexual morality.

The man or woman who feels the impulse to do this should seek the attention of a good Catholic counselor and a priest."

I disagree that it’s a gender identity disorder. I won’t go the differences again between being a hetero male and a TG M2F. It’s not relevant here.

In any case, “scandal” is not involved – he has spoken to his wife. Second, the site says when it (cding) involves a sexual immorality, then the Church is clear. The OP has already answered and note the priest says “many times” but not “always.”

The OP has taken steps to address his concerns.

Crossdressing

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Reminder, OT laws are no longer in force, the Decalogue is composed of precepts of natural law and thus will always be in force however the Sabbath commandment can be changed as it isn’t a precept.

 

[TrueLight]

I found this from a priest on another site.

He quotes Deut. 22:5 and then says:

"Regardless if we interpret the above verse literally or not, I do think that crossdressing is a problem. The sin of such an act would come from two places. First of all, it certainly would cause public scandal to the individual and those around them. (family) For that reason alone it should be avoided. Secondly, many times crossdressing involves a sexual dimension and if this is the case the Church is very clear on its sexual morality.

The man or woman who feels the impulse to do this should seek the attention of a good Catholic counselor and a priest."

I disagree that it’s a gender identity disorder. I won’t go the differences again between being a hetero male and a TG M2F. It’s not relevant here.

In any case, “scandal” is not involved – he has spoken to his wife. Second, the site says when it (cding) involves a sexual immorality, then the Church is clear. The OP has already answered.

The OP has taken steps to address his concerns.

Crossdressing

Okay I totally agree with him.

Also, I should point out that telling a brother in Christ, that there is a problem, does not automatically mean you are condemning them or not loving the Christ in them. In fact, it is because of your love for your brother that you say anything at all.

I think sometimes we are so afraid of not appearing judgmental, we lack the “boldness” in the Lord we should have.

 

[Leegal]

Okay I totally agree with him.

Also, I should point out that telling a brother in Christ, that there is a problem, does not automatically mean you are condemning them or not loving the Christ in them. In fact, it is because of your love for your brother that you say anything at all.

I think sometimes we are so afraid of not appearing judgmental, we lack the “boldness” in the Lord we should have.

Actually, I did say in my very first post that the sin is when it leads to a sexual sin (and it usually has a sexual element) and that he seek counseling with a counselor and a priest. But instrinsically, I see no sin in dressing until it crosses the moral line.

There’s also the element of culpability which another poster mentioned, and we don’t know his culpability because we don’t know the etiology of anyone’s compulsion to dress as a woman.

I have been accused of being judgmental, so I have no fear of telling someone they have done something seriously wrong.

 

[Debora123]

Okay I totally agree with him.

Also, I should point out that telling a brother in Christ, that there is a problem, does not automatically mean you are condemning them or not loving the Christ in them. In fact, it is because of your love for your brother that you say anything at all.

I think sometimes we are so afraid of not appearing judgmental, we lack the “boldness” in the Lord we should have.

I think we can all agree, however, that the OP is neither scandalizing, nor lusting. I don’t disagree with the priest’s statement, I just don’t think it quite applies to the OP.

 

[TrueLight]

I have been accused of being judgmental…,

Really?!!!

 

[Leegal]

Really?!!!

Ah, you have seen my posts.

 

[Dale_M]

Reminder, OT laws are no longer in force, the Decalogue is composed of precepts of natural law and thus will always be in force however the Sabbath commandment can be changed as it isn’t a precept.

Yes, the Deuteronomic Code is archaic and not binding on Christians, or the vast majority of modern day Jews for that matter. I realize that when the topic of crossdressing comes up, it is common to see Deut 22:5 quoted. However, such proof-texting takes the verse out of its Biblical and theological context and has no validity.

As for the OP, his persistent discomfort with crossdressing is reason enough to seek help from an experienced counselor.

 

[DexUK]

As best as I can tell, the original poster is occasionally indulging in ‘cross-dressing’ which has no sexual element and is understood by his wife. He does this apparently because it lifts him emotionally from a state of mind that, after a while, becomes draining.

I cannot see any sin in this. For sure, it is unconventional, but why should that matter? The OP periodically enjoys being able to step outside the role that society believes he should follow and that he finds difficult. The different emotional sensations give him a sense of freedom and let him recharge his batteries.

I don’t see any logical difference in this behaviour to, for instance, other men who periodically feel compelled to head into the great outdoors to hunt or who shed the day-to-day grind by play-acting as Confederate soldiers or (if British) as Roundheads or Cavaliers. It’s a letting off steam thing.

If the OP indulged his desires by means of participating in a pantomime acting troupe as the ‘Pantomime Dame’ then people would barely pass a second’s thought about it.

When it comes right down to basics, the OP is taking some time out of what society expects of him in a way that is probably psychologically healthy for him. Others have different ways. He’s not wilfully passing himself off as a woman to deceive or con people. He isn’t deliberately denying his gender. It is, as has been noted, escapism. I do it by daydreaming about ruined castles and steam trains and if I could, I’d be dressing up the part and playing with real steam engines as my escape! He has his own way.

I see no problems at all with it as it has been described and I’d say that he should relax, stop worrying, love his wife and let his hair down every so often and stay happy.

 

[mgreen77]

He’s not wilfully passing himself off as a woman to deceive or con people.

He mentioned going for “short walks.” I assume that means leaving the house while crossdressed? Is it sinful then?

 

[PLeeD]

He’s not wilfully passing himself off as a woman to deceive or con people. He isn’t deliberately denying his gender.

He mentioned going for “short walks.” I assume that means leaving the house while crossdressed? Is it sinful then?

I have to think it still comes down to intent. Dressing up as a disguise to rob a bank, or to somehow take advantage of people is one thing. Simply going out in public dressed in a way that makes you happy? I can’t see it being a problem.