Struggling with crossdressing

[meltzerboy]

How do the Jewish view non-sexualized crossdressing? I’ve read that it is completely acceptable during the Purim festival. How does that square with Duet. 22:5?

The verses from Deuteronomy in question state: “A man’s item shall not be on a woman; a man shall not wear a woman’s garment.” A rabbinical analysis of this notes that the first verse is passive while the second is active. Further, the first verse uses the term “item,” while the second states “garment.” Minority interpretations include: (1) that the first verse refers to religious items, in particular a tallit (prayer shawl) and tefillin (phylacteries), or (2) that the first verse means “warrior’s gear”; in other words, women should not fight in battle. The majority interpretation, deriving from the writing of Rashi, is that a woman should not disguise herself as a man for the purpose of adultery and that neither a woman nor a man should dress in public as the opposite sex with the intent of becoming part of a single-sex group not designed for both sexes. Thus the affront to G-d involved in crossdressing is not the act per se but rather using this behavior as a means to commit something immoral or illegal. Crossdressing in private, in the theater as an actor or singer, or on religious holidays, specifically Purim, would therefore not fall in the category of an immoral or illegal attempt to deceive.

 

[Irishgal49]

I also want to thank everyone who has posted to this thread. Almost everything that StrugglingGuy posted could have been written by me. I’ve been on CAF for a while, and always posted to these threads about crossdressing, but never admitted that I am also a crossdresser. I am. In fact, that is the issue that led me to CAF in an attempt to better understand scripture on the subject, and God’s will.

I just want to say one thing to all the anonymous male to female crossdressers out there. Do not go into a marriage keeping this secret! Your potential wife should know in advance. The desire to crossdress doesn’t go away, and it only gets harder to deal with later in marriage and in life.

In my own situation, my wife just informed me that she is moving out. We’ve been married for quite a while. I told her on our second date about my crossdressing. She made it clear that she wouldn’t accept it, but I married her anyway. Now it might all come to and end. I can’t blame her for leaving, but I can’t go on hating myself and trying to fit into her mold for me.

I am so sorry to hear that. I am a 50-year-old woman and I have no problem with a man cross-dressing. It’s clothing and as long as he’s not gay, does not deprive me of sex, and uses it to masturbate then I don’t mind at all. Where I live there are stores that cater for men for this and I would shop with my guy. I really don’t see why it’s a big deal as long as it’s not an occasion to sin.

I think if I was in the OP’s wife’s situation I would ask him if he would dress in front of me so I could see what he does, how he does it, and what it consists of and means to him. Then I would be in a better position to see and understand what he is doing and why. I truly would not have any problem with it at all. I’m so sad that there are men out there that have women who seem to threatened. I have always been a weird bird but that’s just the way I am.

My prayers with all those who struggle in marriages with this.

Lorrie

 

[PLeeD]

The majority interpretation, deriving from the writing of Rashi, is that a woman should not disguise herself as a man for the purpose of adultery and that neither a woman nor a man should dress in public as the opposite sex with the intent of becoming part of a single-sex group not designed for both sexes.

Thanks! You refer to that as the “majority interpretation”. Is there someplace online where this issue is addressed directly? I’m thinking maybe there is some mainstream Jewish web site?

It seems inconceivable that a Christian who understands the difference between the old covenant and new covenant would take a position more harsh than that of Judaism on a point of the Law of Moses.

Thus the affront to G-d involved in crossdressing is not the act per se but rather using this behavior as a means to commit something immoral or illegal. Crossdressing in private, in the theater as an actor or singer, or on religious holidays, specifically Purim, would therefore not fall in the category of an immoral or illegal attempt to deceive.

This is perfectly in line with what I have come to believe. It seems like the reasonable position for a Christian like me to hold. I want to say that the Holy Spirit has led me to this conclusion, but don’t dare. I realize that it also fits in with my desire, so I have to be careful about claiming something like “G-d told me this is true”!

So for now, I have to rely on G-d’s grace, and trust that if this is a problem for me spiritually he will make it obvious to me.

P.S. I hope nothing I’ve said here is offensive to Jewish sensibilities.

 

[rodarbal]

Dear struggling guy,
Brother you are not alone. My history is so similar , 99% the same, so i won’t repeat what you have said. This caused so much grief when I was young. I did however tell my wife before we married because the odds of beating this were slim to none. She stayed and is OK with it. I have even told my daughters, they are getting out of their teens and appreciated my honesty. I must have displayed strange, strong emotions when I told them because after the conversation they thought I was going to tell them something bad? Google “Cognati” and take the test. Its a great tool to give you a little insight to yourself. I finally accepted myself as what I am which is a androgyne (intersex) and it is a gift from Him (not totally sure why yet) but we seem to have more compassion than most macho type men. I have a real strong feminnine side and am a womans issues advocate. I always wanted to be a sister and I now realize I have always been one. You need to accept who you are and once you do you can move on from there (finally) yes I have struggled since I was around 8 when my cousins dressed me up, and it just felt so right. Wondered why ever since, but dressed, purged, dressed, purged. Suicide was always there but I never hated myself just did not understand myself. Now maybe I can help someone else be at peace. It gets easier, He made you this way, accept and enjoy.

 

[InNomineDomini]

You refer to that as the “majority interpretation”. Is there someplace online where this issue is addressed directly?

Rashi’s commentary is based on the Talmudic tractate Nazir, page 59 a:

come-and-hear.com/nazir/nazir_59.html

I am informing you of this since – according to some interpretations – it is not acceptable for a Jew to teach Torah to a Goy. I wouldn’t want our Jewish friend to fall into a trap.

Furthermore, being non-Jewish, you may find quite a bit of difficulty having an Orthodox Jew explain to you the precise oral traditions associated with this particular (or any) Mitzvah, since you are not bound to fulfill it in accordance with their views. Indeed, you are more than likely forbidden to study Torah, although what the means, precisely, is not something you’ll ever find a concrete answer to.

 

[Leegal]

I have not been to this thread in a long time. It’s good to see that some of the original posters have made some progress in keeping their marriages intact. I feel for the OP who is struggling with his promise not to cd, because I don’t think it’s possible to “just stop.”
I will continue to pray towards a workable solution for both him and his wife. And to the poster whose wife is staying in the marriage.

1. I don’t think it’s a sin for a man to cd, unless it leads to sexual sins outside of marriage.
2. I don’t think it’s a sin for a man to publicly “present” as female, as long as no intention is there to deceive someone, or to have sex outside of marriage, to pick up strangers. And, if married, the wife understands that no sinful intent is there to seek consolation outside of the marriage.
3. I don’t believe purging ever helps anyone. The need to go out and buy again will become so strong that you will have to replace the items. Spend the money on a solution based therapy, which is the solution you can live with not the solution of the therapist. So, anyone considering counseling should interview several therapists who are well schooled in the field. The therapist has to be “open” to the many possibilities wherein the solution for the individual lies.
4. Remember, women who object to this fear it. They fear that the husband is leaving or that he is using this to cheat, or he’s gay, or he’s going to transition by sexual reassignment surgery. It’s important for those who have this fetish to reassure the wife that they are not leaving or gay or cheating or are going to change their bodies by surgery. There’s a difference between cding and the above. It’s been said before, most men who cd are hetero.

God Bless all those who contributed to this thread, especially for the ones who came to admit that they too have struggled with cding, both in their marriage and personally and came to share.

 

[Leegal]

Perhaps crossdressing in itself isnt sinful (although I remain to be convinced) but it can certainly lead to sinful bevaviour and thats the big problem.

I am only speaking of my own situation here, every crossdresser has their own issues, their own background and motivations. I am absolutely NOT judging anyone else. But for me, when my head is caught up in this fantasy, then everything else gets shunted. When I am thinking about crossdressing then God gets put on the backburner, my prayer life is affected, my spiritual life is forgotten about. My work role and family role is also affected as I dream of womens clothes instead of focusing on my duties. I am being completely honest here, this is how it is, it dominates my thoughts. It has held me back for so long, professionally and spiritually. Its almost as if I instinctively know that my crossdressing and my life as a Christian family man are not compatable, so its one or the other, you cant serve two masters. Also, in order for me to crossdress I will need to lie to my wife to cover my tracks- a sin as well.

No, this isnt for me, I know I will never be able to accept this so I must fight against it. Its my cross to bear, God has given me so many blessings, I need to repay Him.

I don’t think it’s sinful for a man to cd if there’s no lust and deception involved, however you must be the judge of this for yourself. My opinion is only opinion. It’s you that have to live with whatever solution best fits you.

I would suggest that if the therapy is not helpful, to give it more time. But, if you come to a point where it’s not helpful for you, then try another therapist and don’t give up. Not everyone finds the right therapist the first time in any type of counseling, so that’s no less true here. My advice is to stick with it until you are sure that the therapy is not helping or the therapist is not the right fit for you. All therapy takes time.

Your solution is yours alone and you must find what you can live with, along with your wife. Articulate to your therapist what you hope to accomplish and openly discuss the possibilities. Both you and the therapist have to be on the same page as to your goals and expectations, while remaining open to hearing what the therapist has to say.

God Bless and I will continue to pray for you and that you find the peace and solution that is in God’s plan for you.

 

[Rustie317]

That quote from the bible doesn’t literally mean that we must not wear each other’s clothes. It is probably more in reference to homosexuality, or trying to change genders… etc etc. More along those lines.

If that quote really were as literal and simplified as you make it out to be, then I’d be committing a mortal sin right now for wearing my husband’s T shirt and boxer shorts. Not to mention the whole story of Joan of Arc being a great saint would totally fall flat.

Careful here. The homosexual statement is separate and very close by (20:13), but the meaning is the same. And no, you wearing your husband’s boxers doesn’t count. It has to be something that is accepted by society as belonging to the oposite sex. You are not trying to dress like a man and neither was Joan of Arc. It would be different for different cultures, but this man’s case certainly does apply, in my opinion. This is reason for the drag show protest for the university.

 

[PLeeD]

It has to be something that is accepted by society as belonging to the oposite sex. You are not trying to dress like a man and neither was Joan of Arc. It would be different for different cultures, but this man’s case certainly does apply, in my opinion.

I’m glad you said “in my opinion”, because that doesn’t seem to be what the Catholic Church teaches. There are reports of priests contradicting you in the context of individual confessions. It seems improper to impose your opinion regarding a matter like this on fellow Christians.

These are the very words of Peter!

Douay-Rheims Bible - Acts 15:10
Now therefore, why tempt you God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

A Jewish friend has been kind enough to post on this very thread indicating that even the Jews do not interpret scripture this harshly. Why do modern day Christians feel compelled to put other Christians under the yoke of the Law when it is so clearly forbidden by the original apostles?

 

[REDfan4Lyfe]

I think it may be a good idea for you to talk to your doctor about being tested to see if you suffer from hermaphroditism. Many men who have been transvestites at an early age have been diagnosed with this medical condition. Crossdressing has been something that I have been stressing over for ages. I pray you find help from God.

 

[system]

Hello Everyone,
Looks as though this thread has been quiet for quite a while. Having now read through the whole thing I would like to commend the courage of SG for starting the thread and a few of the other men who have admitted that they have similar concerns. I would also like to thank everyone for their compassionate, non-judgmental responses, particularly Leegal for her understanding and the amount of time and research that she has done for this subject. Because of this I come to this forum asking also for prayers because I am a CD of some 40 years. Damn that was hard to say! I don’t want to get into my whole story at this time (besides it is not my thread) . I would however like to begin more of an ongoing dialouge on the subject. Whether we are struggling with crossdressing, have accepted it as being the way we are or even if you are the spouse of someone who dresses.
I am currently battling a sexual and masturbation habit that has consumed a great deal of my time that I could have been giving to the Lord or my family. At times I think that it is my attachment to crossdressing that led me to such selfishness. Keeping the “secret” , the lying in order to have “my own time” and so on.
Even though the internet and these forums are somewhat anonymous I know my wife would freak out knowing that I am posting this here. But as I posted in another thread a couple years ago this is such a lonely activity. It is hard for anyone without these tendencies to even begin to understand. No matter what we do or where we go there are things that trigger our imaginations. This is particularly true during the purge part of the cycle that so many of us have been through. There have been times where I have fully embraced and accepted what and who I am and other times when I have cursed this affliction and begged God to remove it from me because I can not do it myself. If I were to be honest I’d have to say that the Lord has granted that request at times and for short periods and relieved me of the overwhelming ness of my multiple fetishes.
I don’t know what the best way for us to communicate is, or if there is any interest from those who have posted here or any other visitors who come here looking for answers. I doubt that CAF would allow us to have a CD forum. There is however a sexual addiction and impurity group on here but I’m not sure that is the right platform either. Please post here or feel free to contact me if you have any ideas on how this could be done.
I will pray for all of you and ask the same in return.

Your Brother in Christ.
Temptedsinner

 

[PLeeD]

Tempted,

Thanks for posting. I’ve been thinking about your post for a couple of days now. Not sure what to say. It would be nice to have others to talk with about this. I’ve joined a couple of different forums, but they always seem to gravitate toward TS issues, to which I cannot relate.

There is a private religious discussion forum at crossdressers.com. It is a good place to share things with some supportive and knowledgeable Christians. There are a few Catholic people there, but pure Catholicism isn’t really discussed much. There are also atheists and other non-Christians who like to stir the pot, so it’s a strange mix.

The most difficult thing for Christian crossdressers is the sexual component of dressing up! It is clearly sinful to engage in a lustful spirit whether you are dressed like a girl or not.

I have no advice to give other than to suggest trying to separate the lust from the crossdressing. This works for me. It relieved whatever guilt I had, and whatever doubts I had about whether dressing up is OK for a Christian. I simply don’t allow my mind to wander in that direction while dressed up. It’s a liberating feeling. It doesn’t even feel like a burden the way purging or abstaining does.

 

[system]

Thanks PLeeD
I was beginning to feel some regret and embarrassment over making that post. It took me like 3 days to contemplate and write it all. Definitely good advice about removing the sexual component from the dressing. At times I am able to do this and at other times , not so much. Without a doubt that “component” is where my sinfulness comes from and is something that I personally need to avoid. In the older version of the Act of Contrition, the last line of “and to avoid whatever leads me to sin, Amen” gets me wondering sometimes. Certainly I don’t need to be dressed up in order to commit sins of a sexual nature. Having said that , the majority of my sins of the flesh have been while indulging in this activity. Over the last couple of months I have found and bookmarked many sites having to do with purity & chastity as well giving up CDing and would be happy to share them with anyone else in need of additional information. At least for right now I am going to avoid the forum mentioned because there is mostly pro-cd info on the site it’s self that may not be healthy for ME at this point in the journey. Probably 15 years ago or so I did wrestle personally with the TS issue. …. It kinda makes me laugh because in the final self discovery or personal evaluation of it I realized that I am just too lazy to be a “girl” and that I have plenty of “guy” testosterone for the other things that I enjoy.
I decided several years ago that unless I get perhaps years behind me where I’ve had no interest in this sport of ours that I am not going to $$$ purge. The amount of money I have wasted over the decades has got to be huge plus, for me when I start to get back into it it’s almost like a binge where I go deep into other debauchery.
It would be nice to have a means of non judgmental communication for those of us Christians whose lives have been effected by either CD or TS issues. It can get very deep and complicated.

Praying for all of you!
Temptedsinner

 

[sisyphus1]

You know what, you are absolutely right.

Since posting the other day I have been giving my whole situation more thought, I have been reading through all the replies on this thread again and trying to look at things dispassionately. I seem to be seeing things with a little more clarity. I started crossdressing at the age of 3 or 4, it is one of my earliest memories. But even then I knew it wasnt ‘right’. I felt ashamed, I tried to hide clothes from my mother, I didnt want to be caught. So even at that very young age my sense of right and wrong was such that I intrinsically knew I shouldnt be doing this, this bahaviour wasnt ‘natural’. At that age it was all very innocent, but as I grew older it has snowballed into something which I feel is deeply unhealthy for me.

For me crossdressing isnt just about wanting to be comfortable or to try new fashions, it is about completely making myself over as a woman, it is about presenting and acting like a female in public. Its not just a hobby, its behaviour that cuts right to the core of who I am as a man and as a person. It raises all sorts of questions about my identity and sexuality that are very difficult, if not impossible, to answer. Perhaps crossdressing in itself isnt sinful (although I remain to be convinced) but it can certainly lead to sinful bevaviour and thats the big problem.

I am only speaking of my own situation here, every crossdresser has their own issues, their own background and motivations. I am absolutely NOT judging anyone else. But for me, when my head is caught up in this fantasy, then everything else gets shunted. When I am thinking about crossdressing then God gets put on the backburner, my prayer life is affected, my spiritual life is forgotten about. My work role and family role is also affected as I dream of womens clothes instead of focusing on my duties. I am being completely honest here, this is how it is, it dominates my thoughts. It has held me back for so long, professionally and spiritually. Its almost as if I instinctively know that my crossdressing and my life as a Christian family man are not compatable, so its one or the other, you cant serve two masters. Also, in order for me to crossdress I will need to lie to my wife to cover my tracks- a sin as well.

No, this isnt for me, I know I will never be able to accept this so I must fight against it. Its my cross to bear, God has given me so many blessings, I need to repay Him.

 

[sisyphus1]

There hasn’t been any news for awhile. This is a subject that doesn’t go away and since I’m in the same boat as many in this discussion I would like to continue to hear about our common difficulties and short lived successes. Is there any information from the Jesuits on cross dressing?

 

[rodarbal]

This in in fact the most torture one can put oneself through. You are either going to accept yourself the way He made you or you WILL drive yourself crazy dwelling on it every minute of every day. Sounds like your day of reckoning has arrived. Take comfort my brother or sister, God goes by His own rules, not mankinds societal expectations. I know what the bible says and have heard it all, it does not change who you are. You need to accept your self and look at it as a gift not a curse. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS FOR YOU WILL NEVER MOVE ON FROM THAT STATE OF MIND YOU ARE CURRENTLY IN. Once you do this, and learn from others about the many different reasons you are like this, embrace it, accept it, enjoy it, womans clothes are wonderful and its a lot of fun dressing up.

After awhile it will seem like its just not that big of deal anymore and you will move on in your own groove. We all are different and I prefer to call us custom editions, not totally a man , not totally a woman. But you will find happiness and you wont dwell on it like you are now.

You need to be totally honest with yourself and your bride. You dont need to blab to the world. You are at a time when you need her the most. My wife and daughters all know all about dad. They love and accept me as I am, and acknowledge the bravery it took to tell them. I know because this has been my road, I am me, always have been, always will be.
Seek comfort in the Lord, as He blesses ALL who come before Him. Don’t listen to the haters, they still think its a choice. LOL!

Best and warmest wishes,

 

[rodarbal]

Now with that all said. When I mean dont blab to the world, there are a lot of haters who would rather see you dead than dressed. Many trans people are murdered every year just because of who they are, so sad.
I am pretty low profile about my life in public and dress rather intersex. Just underdressing keeps me connected to my true self. I will bet Mr. Levitticus was not born this way or he would have a different viewpoint on this.
What if being born with blue eyes was just as controversial as being born as we were.

www.gendersociety.org
www.triess.org

Not sure if those are totally correct so if not just google them. learn about yourself and you will see you are not the demon you make yourself out to be. Take a nice deep breath! We are not what society has called us, we are wonderful family people.

Some wives soon realize they have a new shopping partner.

 

[sisyphus1]

rodarbal
Thank you for your kind and comforting words, as you explain so well the need for self acceptance is maybe the best thing that we can do for ourselves, next to our love of Christ.
There is much more to this story and Ive only just started to write it in words. To see the path of history in print instead of just letting the thoughts rattle loosely through my brain seem to make it more easily acceptable.
I'm very slow with the computer and composing my thoughts. I thank God every time the sentences start to flow that He kept on Steve jobs back and said keep it up, people will eventually praise the MAC, just make sure to include spell check LOL

 

[evans77]

I’m glad no one is condemning you. We should not be condemning our brothers and sisters.

But to be honest, I do not understand why the responses given here are along the lines, of it’s fine - don’t worry about it.

Deuteronomy 22: 5: "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. "

It may be something that you cannot help, which would reduce culpability, but I definitely think you should get counseling.

And then we wonder why PEOPLE get so fed up with Catholics?? They are always saying gay people are sinning when is all they do is love the same sex yet this is fine? SOrry but it is truly revolting a man dressing in stockings, lipstick and women clothes!!! It should be the same sin as gay love. There I have said it! pick and choose parts of the bible that appeal to people? Oh and masturbation is a sin yet big hairy men dressing like women is fine?? I just wonder why people turn away from the church?

 

[Philip_Peters]

I have done some research on this and this is what I have found: Psychologists regard your condition as a fetish. You are basically, a normal, healthy, heterosexual male with this condition hard-wired in your brain. When you fantasize about wearing women’s clothing your brain releases dopamine and other neurotransmitters. Its just as if your brain is interpreting cross-dressing as actual contact with a female. It releases neurotransmitters which produce sensations of well-being, pleasures, sexual gratification and bonding. It affects the reward centers of your brain, instant gratification, and thus it mimics the addiction response.

Most heterosexual men with this condition consider it a problem. They want to get married and have a happy marriage, so they learn to keep their cross-dressing private, very private. They try to quit, over and over, and they pray, and they try to make it go away. They cannot. You cannot stop your brain from releasing neurotransmitters.

It is estimated that 3-5% of the male population has this fetish. It usually starts in early childhood with some sort of over-valuing of females. You may have thought that parents preferred girls, or that girls had it better in life than boys, etc…Then in puberty your hormones are running and you discover that just touching some feminine clothing gives you a rush. At this point cross-dressing is extremely sexually arousing and may lead to masturbation. However later in life, cross-dressing is no longer a sexually arousing experience. As your testosterone levels drop, your urges remain, but now it is described as being comforting, and reducing stress.

Now the way the brain works: If you do the same thing over and over and over - it causes the brain to fatigue and release less dopamine (dopamine is responsible for the sensation of anticipation of gratification). So cross-dressers constantly feel an urge to take their cross-dressing further and further. It can get out of control.

So is it a sin? Well if Christians are supposed to keep themselves sexually pure, and if they should not be addicted, then cross-dressing can be a problem. If you have any sort of fetish, then you need to be in control over it, and it cannot be in control over you. Keep it limited, and private. You may set some boundaries for yourself, such as one or two significant articles of clothing. Perhaps you could limit it to sleepwear. Then stick to those limits. You will feel an urge to go further and increase you dopamine levels. Don’t do it. Stick with your own boundaries. Then as you see some progress you may reduce the frequency of your cross-dressing. Hopefully, you will gain gratification in knowing you have your fetish under control, and you will continue to gain more and more control over it.