Struggling with God's judgment

[Polak]

I think I brought this up before or at least a very similar subject. I must admit that I am still struggling with this following scenario.

One person lives their life as close as they can do God’s teaching and the teachings of the Catholic Church. They avoid the many temptations and pleasures of life that are sinful. While they are obviously not sinless, because no person is, they do lead a very good life nonetheless.

Another person doesn’t believe any of the Church teachings or even in God. They spend their life drinking, doing drugs, having lots of men/women, not caring about anyone but themselves and generally just enjoying their time on earth, not making any sacrifices for God or for others and even hurting others, just so they can be get what they want. This person does however, at the age of, let’s say 90, when they are on their deathbed and are hours away from dying, realise they have lived a bad life, genuinely repent and convert to Catholicism just before death.

It is my understanding that God is probably likely to accept both the first and second person into heaven. I know we don’t have minds capable of understanding God and his way of judgment, but this, to the human mind, simply doesn’t seem fair.

 

[brown_bear]

Without the grace of God all of us in the age of reason would go to hell: the thing deserved for each of us is hell. This is justice.

If my salvation is free, if all I have had is a gift, what do I care if others receive more or less than me?

Can’t God do what he wants with his gifts?

 

[truthseeker]

Hello,
Jesus died for all of our sins
It is fair because every person is equal in dignity and if they are willing to accept the saving grace of Christ with a humble contrite heart salvation would be granted them

It would be unfair if they lived a sinful life knowing that they will just repent on their deathbed and be saved. However in this case, the contrition required for genuine repentance wouldn’t be there. God will judge based on his knowledge of our souls.

 

[Polak]

Can’t God do what he wants with his gifts?

Of course he can. He is a fair God though. In my scenario I just cannot understand how this is fair.

 

[brown_bear]

Of course he can. He is a fair God though. In my scenario I just cannot understand how this is fair.

I’d suggest Matthew 20, 1-16 meditation

 

[pohandes]

Of course he can. He is a fair God though. In my scenario I just cannot understand how this is fair.

God is owner of everything. He can do what he want to his Property.

 

[Irishmom2]

to the human mind, simply doesn’t seem fair.

Exactly. You are thinking with a human mind. No one can judge what is in a person’s heart except God. If, as you say they repented at age 90 and it is genuine, God knows that. We need to worry about our own judgment and not be the judge of others.

It may help to reread the story of the Prodigal Son. The father saw his son coming from a long way off. He was happy to see him come home at last and forgave him. The brother could not understand, just as you do not understand.

God sees us when we are a long way from home. He knows how we are living. He knows if our repentance is real, and judges us each accordingly.

 

[annad347]

@Irishmom2, couldn’t have said any better.

Would it have been better if the man never repented?

 

[Polak]

It may help to reread the story of the Prodigal Son. The father saw his son coming from a long way off. He was happy to see him come home at last and forgave him. The brother could not understand, just as you do not understand.

Yes I was thinking of that story and I understand it, but it just doesn’t seem fair.

You are given a life here on earth and you will be judged by how you lived your life. God has set out certain laws we need to live by and given his Church the authority to, with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, create other ones. I just can’t get passed the fact that somebody can ignore these laws their entire life and then by fine if they repent at the end of it. On the other hand, someone can live a good life, follow God’s teachings and the teachings of the Church, then commit one mortal sin, die before they are able to make it to confession, and it’s bye bye heaven.

 

[kapp19]

The parable of the workers late to the vineyard is relevant. God gives to whomever He wants as much as He wants… we agree to the wage, no? And isn’t it a joy to work for such a loving Master in this life anyway? It’s its own extra reward.

This life is the introduction of the book. The story starts at the end of the introduction, and the story doesn’t end. Eternity is not simply a “long time.”

-K

 

[annad347]

On the other hand, someone can live a good life, follow God’s teachings and the teachings of the Church, then commit one mortal sin, die before they are able to make it to confession, and it’s bye bye heaven

Who says that’s what happens, you make one mistake and God sends you to hell?

God knows you better then you know yourself. He loves you, He knows you love Him, why would He throw His child who loves Him into hell? Why would He deny someone who knew Him and loved Him their whole live especially after He welcomed home someone who knew Him for like 10 seconds?

Back to the Prodical son, did the father throw his eldest son out even after he showed anger and jelouse towards his brothers return, no he just explained how we should rejoice and be happy for his return… so should you.

Who cares how fair it is on earth, what matters is that your brother is home with you, with God.

 

[TheIttyBitty]

If you have a cat and she has kittens, and one kitten really doesn’t like humans, but it is the cutest thing. You strive and strive. and Suddenly…one day…the kitten (or cat, maybe she grew up) approaches you and decides she wants to be near you. Does that kitten deserve less love because it didn’t want you near her before? This should feel like a triumph!

Now, imagine how God feels.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Jesus knew that some people would very much struggle with this and He spoke directly to it.

He taught us in parables, that of the hiring of the laborers at different times of the day and in the elder brother in the parable of the prodigal son. This struggle is sometimes called “Elder brother syndrome”.

I’d advise doing prayerful study of these parables.

 

[porthos11]

I’m not sure why we want “fairness”. If it were about “fairness” we’d all go to hell. Grace is undeserved, whether it’s effective all of one’s life or at one’s deathbed. As Jesus would tell us, “Are you angry because [he] is generous?”

What you’re forgetting is that not only is God merciful, God is also just. There’s enough in the Gospels to teach us that there are degrees of reward in heaven. Jesus talks about the least and the greatest and the greatness of one’s reward for those who suffer persecution, for example.

The deathbed convert will have a lot of sins to be purified from, which is why Purgatory exists. His purification will be longer and more intense than the devout person who lived his purification in this life. His glory and reward in heaven will also be lesser than the one who lived his life “storing up treasures in heaven”. It’s not about God, who is unlimited, but about the capacity of one’s soul to experience the Beatific Vision. The last-minute convert, though saved, will not experience the joy of heaven to the same degree as the lifelong faithful because he did not store up merit over the course of his life.

 

[Polak]

I read and really do understand the arguments on here.

It’s just, we know God is just, and I can’t understand how one person can literally sacrifice their life for God, while another can do nothing whatsoever for him and then at the end of their life just say ‘oh, sorry for how I lived, I believe in you now’ and they’ll both receive the gift of heaven, when one of them has done absolutely nothing in this life to deserve it, and if anything, lived his or her entire life doing things that are against God.

People give me all kinds of parables. How about the one with those who had no oil in their lamps and did not get let into the wedding? They too realised at the very last moment that they should have prepared oil for their lamps, but it was too late.

 

[ReaderT]

when one of them has done absolutely nothing in this life to deserve it,

Neither of them did anything to deserve Heaven. None of us have. Even the great saints, like St. Sisois, died telling his disciples that he “hadn’t even begun to repent.” Every single one of us is an insolvent debtor before God, but the Saints at least realized it

 

[TheLittleLady]

The parable of the lamps speaks those who die without accepting Him, and those who are alive when our Lord returns and have rejected Him.

I wonder, is it a feeling you have that those who sin get to to have all the fun and being a faithful Catholic is giving up pleasure and fun?

 

[GodIsPerfection]

I know we don’t have minds capable of understanding God and his way of judgment, but this, to the human mind, simply doesn’t seem fair.

This sentence hits the nail on the head! No, we don’t understand God or his judgments, and as inferior beings we have no right to question Him.

The Parable of the Vineyard, Matthew 20: 1 - 16

For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

 

[Polak]

God knows you better then you know yourself. He loves you, He knows you love Him, why would He throw His child who loves Him into hell?

Well I’m going by the teaching of the Catholic Church here, that if you die while in a state of mortal sin you go to hell.

I wonder, is it a feeling you have that those who sin get to to have all the fun and being a faithful Catholic is giving up pleasure and fun?

A little bit. I’m not saying you can’t have a good and fulfilling, or even ‘fun’ life as a faithful Catholic. You can have a lot of fun that isn’t sinful. Having said that, there are many ‘pleasures’ in life we know to be sinful and have to avoid them. That can at times be very difficult because the body sometimes has different needs to the spirit. Sometimes you have to really fight against your bodily urges. You have to give things up. In this sense a Catholic doesn’t have an easy life, and I think many of us believe that it isn’t supposed to be easy, because we are following in the path of Christ, who wasn’t only tortured and killed but was tempted by the devil for instance. So, when you see a person who doesn’t have to go through that difficult journey but is still rewarded with heaven, it doesn’t seem fair (I know I keep talking about fairness but it matters to me).

Sister Faustina wrote in her diary about the two roads. The difficult road led to a beautiful garden, while the easy road led to the abyss of hell. In the scenario I give above, it seems the person taking the easy road manages to jump over to the road leading to the beautiful garden right at the end, almost like a car moving into another lane after being in one lane most of the time because they realise another one is moving much quicker.

 

[Pattylt]

Can you imagine how much regret and sorrow the non practicing had to have at the end of his life compared to the faithful? If someone is truly repentant at the end of a hedonistic life how terrified he is compared to the faithful man that just has minor repentance at his final hour? Which one is more terrified of hell at that point?