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1ke
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The parable of the laborers in the vineyard in Matthew 20 is one to study when having these feelings.
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annad347
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Jesus said there was only one unforgivable sin that can lead to death which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. No one can say what happens to you if you don’t make it to confession before you die.Well I’m going by the teaching of the Catholic Church here, that if you die while in a state of mortal sin you go to hell.
God knows you because you know Him. that will never change. Don’t deny Him, He wont deny you, even if you are showing a little bit of jealousy… like the older brother did. I do too sometimes, but I believe God’s know the truth about why I do and I pray it isn’t real. (okay, we’re working on it). God’s love for you will never go away.
Keep in mind, a person driving in the wrong lane who quickly moves into another lane, at the last second can also have a fatal accident than can destroy him forever. Nothing is ever so black and white… but God is always right, just and merciful.
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ProdglArchitect
Guest
Matthew 20: 1-16It is my understanding that God is probably likely to accept both the first and second person into heaven. I know we don’t have minds capable of understanding God and his way of judgment, but this, to the human mind, simply doesn’t seem fair.
(All the annotation is from the USCCB site, there’s a lot so I didn’t remove it.)1 “The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at dawn to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2 After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 Going out about nine o’clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 * and he said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard, and I will give you what is just.’
5 So they went off. [And] he went out again around noon, and around three o’clock, and did likewise.
6 Going out about five o’clock, he found others standing around, and said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’
7 They answered, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard.’
8 * a When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.’
9 When those who had started about five o’clock came, each received the usual daily wage.
10 So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage.
11 And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner,
12 saying, ‘These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day’s burden and the heat.’
13 He said to one of them in reply, ‘My friend, I am not cheating you.* Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?
14 * Take what is yours and go. What if I wish to give this last one the same as you?
15 [Or] am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?’
16 * Thus, the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
Don’t be made sad by this. Rejoice that the sinner repented. Welcome them, celebrate their discovery. Bless God for not giving up on them. It is a wonderful thing. If one such as that could be saved, it gives those of us actively seeking God great hope!
God is not fair, not even close. If God were fair and gave us all what we deserved then not a single one of us would make it to Heaven. You’d have The Trinity, Mary, and the angels. The rest of us would be in our well-earned damnation… Praise God that He is not fair, and that His justice is tempered by His mercy.
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truthseeker
Guest
If the person has a contrite heart, and are sorry for their sins their repentance is genuine and they can be saved. But it is a different situation if the person willingly lived a sinful life apart from God knowing that they will ‘convert’ on their deathbed, God is just and knows if someone is being genuine. It is fair because God created us and His Son Jesus Christ died for everyone no matter how late in life we genuinely accept his saving grace.‘oh, sorry for how I lived, I believe in you now’ and they’ll both receive the gift of heaven,
This one is referring to when Jesus will return on the last day “keep watch, because you do not know the day nor the hour.” Matthew 25:13People give me all kinds of parables. How about the one with those who had no oil in their lamps and did not get let into the wedding? They too realised at the very last moment that they should have prepared oil for their lamps, but it was too late.
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kapp19
Guest
God’s justice must square with the doctrine on charity… I think this is the root. The point is not “doing stuff for God,” it is being friends with Him. If He wills to move someone suddenly to great charity at the end of life, they now deserve the consummation of that friendship, by God’s grace working in them, with their cooperation. God earns it for them in them… freely accomplished on both sides. What is unjust about this? It’s about God initiating friendship.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
It is important to remember, the bodily urges you speak of, at one point in your life you could not control any of them. Would it seem odd for an adult to think it is unfair that an infant is fed every time they wail for food or that the baby can just urinate in bed/riding in the car/in the booth at a restaurant? You’d think that person were strange to have such feelings.So, when you see a person who doesn’t have to go through that difficult journey but is still rewarded with heaven, it doesn’t seem fair
The sins of the flesh that we most associate with pleasure are sexual sins. As with our other bodily needs, as we mature we learn to control those desires. When we move from “I will be chaste because I do not want to go to hell, but, it would sure be fun to be unchaste!” to “God designed me to be chaste, and by living in the way God designed me I will have peace and far more joy in my life.” we change our perspective. To look in the mirror and say “why am I jealous of sin?” is a big step in spiritual growth.
Realize, it is a temptation to think that sin is more pleasurable than virtue. Yes, we can suffer and we will suffer, but, God gives us a peace that passes all understanding. I’ve lived on both sides, I have been unchaste and I promise you, that sort of pleasure pales in comparison to joyfully following Christ.
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The_Wizard
Guest
I too struggled with this question. On an intellectual level I agree the the replies given. But on an emotional level it just does not seem fair. Yes, God is a loving and merciful God but He is also a just God. To often we forgot his justice. This is where Purgatory comes into play. “The builder will suffer lost but yet be saved…” (1 Corinthians 3:15). Beside waiting until you are on your death bed to repent is not a very good plan. He could have been hit by a bus at 85 and not had a chance to repent! Then where would he be?
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PennyinCanada
Guest
I think on the other side of death this won’t be an issue. Let’s say you work a day and expect the promised $100. At the end of the day the boss hands you a check for $1 million. You fall down and cry. This can’t be real! Yes it is. It’s yours. Go home and embrace your family and celebrate!
This is how God deals with us. You’re right in that it’s not fair, but it’s the other way around not fair. It’s exceedingly generous.
This is how God deals with us. You’re right in that it’s not fair, but it’s the other way around not fair. It’s exceedingly generous.
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stpurl
Guest
Well, it comes down to this.
Do you think that we ‘earn’ heaven by good deeds?
Or does God offer heaven as a free gift?
If the former, why did Jesus have to suffer and die for us?
If the latter, then a person accepting that gift and cooperating with God gains heaven by that cooperation—meaning that whatever good he or she did has really nothing to do with that acceptance. Of course it is better to do good things, and there are mentions of levels of heaven, and the more a person does good, the more likely he is to skip purgatory and go directly to heaven, so the person who doesn’t do good things but manages to humble himself and love God at the end might have a lot of suffering in purgatory before he gains heaven. . .but again, the cooperation with God’s free GIFT is the key.
Do you think that we ‘earn’ heaven by good deeds?
Or does God offer heaven as a free gift?
If the former, why did Jesus have to suffer and die for us?
If the latter, then a person accepting that gift and cooperating with God gains heaven by that cooperation—meaning that whatever good he or she did has really nothing to do with that acceptance. Of course it is better to do good things, and there are mentions of levels of heaven, and the more a person does good, the more likely he is to skip purgatory and go directly to heaven, so the person who doesn’t do good things but manages to humble himself and love God at the end might have a lot of suffering in purgatory before he gains heaven. . .but again, the cooperation with God’s free GIFT is the key.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
Yes. The laborer who worked from the eleventh hour got the same as the one who worked from the third hour. God is both merciful and just. If it were not so, we wouldn’t have great converts like St Augustine. He said every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.The parable of the laborers in the vineyard in Matthew 20 is one to study when having these feelings.
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Usagi
Guest
The Catholic view of things does include a couple of factors that may help you see greater fairness.
First, there is purgatory. One can be forgiven and destined for Heaven, but still need to complete their sanctification before they can exist there. The second person in your example has gained eternal life, but has spent none of their earthly life letting God mold them into a citizen of Heaven. Hence their purgatory experience is likely to be considerable.
Second, while everyone in Heaven experiences the Beatific Vision (God unveiled), there are indications that each soul will have a different capacity to apprehend and process that experience, and thereby a greater or lesser reward in Heaven. (The common analogy, supposedly told to St. Bernadette by her older sister, is that people by their lives form their souls into different-sized containers. Each will be entirely full in Heaven, but the greatest saint’s soul may be like a vast tub filled to the brim, while your deathbed convert’s may only be a thimble.
But ultimately, we should rejoice when even the worst of us arrives in Heaven, and remember that no one – certainly not you or me – earns their way in by their great goodness.
First, there is purgatory. One can be forgiven and destined for Heaven, but still need to complete their sanctification before they can exist there. The second person in your example has gained eternal life, but has spent none of their earthly life letting God mold them into a citizen of Heaven. Hence their purgatory experience is likely to be considerable.
Second, while everyone in Heaven experiences the Beatific Vision (God unveiled), there are indications that each soul will have a different capacity to apprehend and process that experience, and thereby a greater or lesser reward in Heaven. (The common analogy, supposedly told to St. Bernadette by her older sister, is that people by their lives form their souls into different-sized containers. Each will be entirely full in Heaven, but the greatest saint’s soul may be like a vast tub filled to the brim, while your deathbed convert’s may only be a thimble.
But ultimately, we should rejoice when even the worst of us arrives in Heaven, and remember that no one – certainly not you or me – earns their way in by their great goodness.
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pohandes
Guest
If I am wrong, let me know.God is owner of everything. He can do what he want to his Property.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
God has allowed us to call Him Father.
The property argument is best taken up in a new thread so not to detail this one
The property argument is best taken up in a new thread so not to detail this one
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