struggling with mary

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angell1

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hi everyone.

i still seem to be struggling with mary.

i have no problem asking for her intercession, i think i understand and believe all the marian doctrines and how they fit in with Jesus.

but the problem i’m having is, have we maybe gone a little too far?

here is a page of marian prayers.

marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

i know we don’t worship her but with some of these, the line really seems to be blurred. our life, hope and sweetness. devoting our entire selves to her, obtain for us salvation, EtC.

i don’t know, i’m just really having some issues with this. i feel like maybe some of it has gone a little too far.

and the bible is really not much help on this, Jesus is relatively silent on his mother, doesn’t really honour much in scripture with a ton of illustrious titles. i have heard a ton of protestant accusations on this and i have to admit, it’s a little hard to defend.

has anyone else ever had issues with this? thanks
 
angell1 said:
hi everyone.

i still seem to be struggling with mary.

i have no problem asking for her intercession, i think i understand and believe all the marian doctrines and how they fit in with Jesus.

but the problem i’m having is, have we maybe gone a little too far?

here is a page of marian prayers.

marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

i know we don’t worship her but with some of these, the line really seems to be blurred. our life, hope and sweetness. devoting our entire selves to her, obtain for us salvation, EtC.

i don’t know, i’m just really having some issues with this. i feel like maybe some of it has gone a little too far.

and the bible is really not much help on this, Jesus is relatively silent on his mother, doesn’t really honour much in scripture with a ton of illustrious titles. i have heard a ton of protestant accusations on this and i have to admit, it’s a little hard to defend.

has anyone else ever had issues with this? thanks
Click to expand...
How about the “mother of God” part…do you have a problem with that?

Peace!!!
 
angell1 said:
hi everyone.

i still seem to be struggling with mary.
i have no problem asking for her intercession, i think i understand and believe all the marian doctrines and how they fit in with Jesus.
but the problem i’m having is, have we maybe gone a little too far?
here is a page of marian prayers.
marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm
i know we don’t worship her but with some of these, the line really seems to be blurred. our life, hope and sweetness. devoting our entire selves to her, obtain for us salvation, EtC.
i don’t know, i’m just really having some issues with this. i feel like maybe some of it has gone a little too far.
and the bible is really not much help on this, Jesus is relatively silent on his mother, doesn’t really honour much in scripture with a ton of illustrious titles. i have heard a ton of protestant accusations on this and i have to admit, it’s a little hard to defend.
has anyone else ever had issues with this? thanks
Click to expand...
Alright, I’m only a revert, but I;ll try my best at this. Our devotion to Mary must
be taken with a certain degree of caution. St. Louis de Montfort taught that “If
devotion to Mary alienated us from Jesus it would have to be rejected as a dia-
bolical temptation,” but also that “With Mary we enter into a more intense and
more immediate union with the Incarnate Wisdom,” and also warned us that
“To wrench Mary from salvation history and therefore from Christian life,” for
Montfort, “is to reject the plan of salvation as decreed by the Father.”

Words of St. Louis himself: “The more one is consecrated to Mary,
the more one is consecrated to Jesus.”
Now as for those many prayers, on those powerful words given to Mary, I can’t say,
maybe another can explain, but the most I know is this, that without a Catholic un-
derstanding of Mary, uttering at least a few of those prayers may be troublesome.

Are you perhaps familiar with the few incredible types for Mary that demonstrate
how important she is in our Christian life? She ain’t just a good Jewish girl who
happened to mother the very Creator of the World, it’s a little more complicated…
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
Alright, I’m only a revert, but I;ll try my best at this. Our devotion to Mary must
be taken with a certain degree of caution. St. Louis de Montfort taught that “If
devotion to Mary alienated us from Jesus it would have to be rejected as a dia-
bolical temptation,” but also that “With Mary we enter into a more intense and
more immediate union with the Incarnate Wisdom,” and also warned us that
“To wrench Mary from salvation history and therefore from Christian life,” for
Montfort, “is to reject the plan of salvation as decreed by the Father.”

Words of St. Louis himself: “The more one is consecrated to Mary,
the more one is consecrated to Jesus.”
Now as for those many prayers, on those powerful words given to Mary, I can’t say,
maybe another can explain, but the most I know is this, that without a Catholic un-
derstanding of Mary, uttering at least a few of those prayers may be troublesome.

Are you perhaps familiar with the few incredible types for Mary that demonstrate
how important she is in our Christian life? She ain’t just a good Jewish girl who
happened to mother the very Creator of the World, it’s a little more complicated…
Click to expand...
you mean things like being the new eve and new ark of the covenant right? yeah, i’m familiar with those. came across them while learning about the immaculate conception. i don’t know, maybe God will give me an answer in his own way.
 
angell1 said:
you mean things like being the new eve and new ark of the covenant right? yeah, i’m familiar with those. came across them while learning about the immaculate conception. i don’t know, maybe God will give me an answer in his own way.
Click to expand...
If you keep at it, I’m sure God will. 👍
 
angell1 said:
you mean things like being the new eve and new ark of the covenant right? yeah, i’m familiar with those. came across them while learning about the immaculate conception. i don’t know, maybe God will give me an answer in his own way.
Click to expand...
Hi Angell,

Mary is called the “new Eve” because Eve said “no”, and Mary said “yes”.
Here is some information about the Ark of the Covenant:

Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant were the stone tablets of the law-- the word of God inscribed on stone.

Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant, The Body of Christ – the word of God in the flesh.
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant was the urn filled with manna from the wilderness – the miraculous bread–the manna from heaven that fed the Israelites in the desert.

Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant, Her womb containing Jesus, the Bread of Life, who came down from Heaven.
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant was the rod of Aaron that budded to prove and defend the true high priest.

Inside Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant was the eternal High Priest, our Lord Jesus Christ!
 
angell1 said:
you mean things like being the new eve and new ark of the covenant right? yeah, i’m familiar with those. came across them while learning about the immaculate conception. i don’t know, maybe God will give me an answer in his own way.
Click to expand...
Yes, Mary is considered the new Eve, her obedient consent to God’s will opened the door to Christ’s redeeming us from the act to which Eve’s disobedience led Adam.

And the Ark bore the Old Convenant, right? And Christ is the New Covenant, and Mary bore Him.
 
angell1 said:
hi everyone.

i still seem to be struggling with mary.

i have no problem asking for her intercession, i think i understand and believe all the marian doctrines and how they fit in with Jesus.

but the problem i’m having is, have we maybe gone a little too far?

here is a page of marian prayers.

marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

i know we don’t worship her but with some of these, the line really seems to be blurred. our life, hope and sweetness. devoting our entire selves to her, obtain for us salvation, EtC.

i don’t know, i’m just really having some issues with this. i feel like maybe some of it has gone a little too far.

and the bible is really not much help on this, Jesus is relatively silent on his mother, doesn’t really honour much in scripture with a ton of illustrious titles. i have heard a ton of protestant accusations on this and i have to admit, it’s a little hard to defend.

has anyone else ever had issues with this? thanks
Click to expand...
I’d say if it gives you the least bit of trouble–don’t do it. It isn’t required. Some people just aren’t drawn to it. It’s ok. Jesus loves you.
 
Mary also urged Jesus to perform the miracle at Cana when he was reluctant to do so. On the cross, and at other times before, he calls her “woman”, and entrusts her to the care of John whom he tells Mary to behold as her son. Her role is universal in nature.

The prophecy regarding Eve and the serpent is that her seed would create enmity with the serpent, representing her triumph over sin.

In Revelation 12 she is shown as the Queen Mother of Heaven whose male child shall rule the world. She escapes harm from the dragon, “that ancient serpent”.

These among other reasons explain her role as co-redemptrix. She had to have been immaculately conceived without sin, and remained so, for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

As a revert, I am moved and filled with thanks by learning more of the story of Mary.
 
Dorothy said:
Hi Angell,

Mary is called the “new Eve” because Eve said “no”, and Mary said “yes”.
Here is some information about the Ark of the Covenant:

Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant were the stone tablets of the law-- the word of God inscribed on stone.

Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant, The Body of Christ – the word of God in the flesh.
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant was the urn filled with manna from the wilderness – the miraculous bread–the manna from heaven that fed the Israelites in the desert.

Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant, Her womb containing Jesus, the Bread of Life, who came down from Heaven.
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant was the rod of Aaron that budded to prove and defend the true high priest.

Inside Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant was the eternal High Priest, our Lord Jesus Christ!
Click to expand...
👍
 
As a non-Catholic on this Forum – I’ve been learning a Lot about Catholicism. Obviously God chose Mary to be the earthly mother of Jesus. Why – we don’t know – it was God’s choice. The angel told her what was going to happen. The Holy Spirit would come upon her and she would bear the Christ Child. In Luke 1 – Mary’s song " My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for He has been mindful of the humble state of his servant, From now on all generations will call be blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me-- holy is His name, etc.

But in the rest of Scripture – she gives birth in a very humble place – a stable.

But no where in Scripture are we told to pray To or Through Mary. We ARE told that Jesus Christ – the Man Christ Jesus is our Mediator between God and man.

And people are Bound and Determined that Mary didn’t have any other children. That for Some reason, it just wouldn’t be Proper for her womb to hold any other person. And I know that there has already been Much discussion about this in other questions.

Jesus prayed directly to His Father when He was here before going to the cross.

Philippians 4:6 & 7 “but in everything by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

Just some thoughts 🙂
 
i don’t have problems praying to or through mary. we do it with other people here on earth all the time. and yes, jesus is the only mediator, mary wasn’t the one who actually died for our sins
 
angell1 said:
hi everyone.

i still seem to be struggling with mary.

i have no problem asking for her intercession, i think i understand and believe all the marian doctrines and how they fit in with Jesus.

but the problem i’m having is, have we maybe gone a little too far?

here is a page of marian prayers.

marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

i know we don’t worship her but with some of these, the line really seems to be blurred. our life, hope and sweetness. devoting our entire selves to her, obtain for us salvation, EtC.

i don’t know, i’m just really having some issues with this. i feel like maybe some of it has gone a little too far.

and the bible is really not much help on this, Jesus is relatively silent on his mother, doesn’t really honour much in scripture with a ton of illustrious titles. i have heard a ton of protestant accusations on this and i have to admit, it’s a little hard to defend.

has anyone else ever had issues with this? thanks
Click to expand...
I do struggle with Marian issues often.

However, what one must understand is that these prayers, at the centre, is Jesus Christ. Praying to Mary is about striving to become closer to her and her Son!

Think of it like this. We should ask our friends to pray for us, right? Then how much more must we ask the Mother of God, the greatest of the Lord’s creations, created without sin?

I urge you to read Total Devotion to Mary by St Louis de Montfort. He gives an honest yet wonderful approach to it all. At one point he frankly says that compared to the infinite majesty of God, Mary is less than an atom, in fact she is nothingness. But then on the other hand, she is the greatest creation of God. She was His prized secret before the dawn of mankind, the spotless vessel of His love, the vessel through which God entered the world!
 
I have never had a problem with Our Lady but then, I am a convert who was never a protestant. The Bible is not the pillar and bulwark of Truth, the Church is. Look to what the Church says about it, then read the bible through that lens. I second that you should read St. Louis de Montford. All the saints are devoted to Our Lady to one degree or another.
Scott Hahn is a protestant convert, read his book Haily Holy Queen.
 
petra22 said:
I’d say if it gives you the least bit of trouble–don’t do it. It isn’t required. Some people just aren’t drawn to it. It’s ok. Jesus loves you.
Click to expand...
Yes, Jesus loves us, and Mary is our Mother in the order of grace. It is a great good to get to know her better, and to be blessed by Our Lord through her. He gave Blessed Mother to us at the foot of the cross.
 
This seems to be a two part question.

On the one hand the OP is concerned that some prayers go too far. On the other hand the OP has difficulty entering into the spirit of those prayers.

Concerning Part 1: Have no fear that the Church goes to far. The Church is VERY careful about drawing a line to prevent Marian worship. Some prayers are liturgical (from the Church) Those prayers you need never worry about. Other prayers are devotional (sometimes from Saints, sometimes just traditional) But they are not liturgical. Those prayers are ENTIRELY optional, and do not need to be a part of your prayer life.

Concerning Part 2: Have no fear that you have difficulty entering into the spirit of some of those prayers. Instead, stick with what seems right in your heart. Certainly the Hail Mary is not one of the difficult prayers, as it is drawn mostly from Holy Scripture. Everyone that has a strong devotion to the Virgin Mary has been drawn into it willingly and lovingly. IOW, no one can (or should) force the issue, nor is that expected or desired of a Catholic.
 
angell1 said:
you mean things like being the new eve and new ark of the covenant right? yeah, i’m familiar with those. came across them while learning about the immaculate conception. i don’t know, maybe God will give me an answer in his own way.
Click to expand...
The New Ark is pretty easy once you see it like this:

Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant Proved from Scripture

The ark of the Old Covenant contained the words of God written on Stone. (Deut. 10:5, Hebrews 9:4)
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, contained the Word of God made flesh. (John 1:1)

The ark of the Old Covenant contained the jar of manna which came down from heaven. Those who ate of this bread still died. (Exodus 16:32, Hebrews 9:4)
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, contained Jesus, the bread of life which came down from heaven. Those who eat of this bread will live forever. (John 6:31-41)

The ark of the Old Covenant contained the staff of Aaron which had budded as proof as his priesthood. (Number 17:1-9)
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, contained Jesus, our high priest, Himself. (Hebrews 4:14)

The ark of the Old Covenant was overshadowed by the glory cloud. (Exodus 40:34-35)
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit. (Luke 1:35)

The ark traveled to the house of Obed-edom in the hill country of Judea. (2 Sam. 6:1–11)
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, traveled to the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah in the hill country of Judea. (Luke 1:39)

A man touched the ark of the Old Covenant to steady it without God’s permission and was struck dead on the spot. David was filled with awe and said, “Who am I that the Ark of the Lord should come unto me?” (2 Samuel 6:9)
Elizabeth is filled with the Holy Spirit and said, “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come unto me?” (Luke 1:43)

The ark of the Old Covenant remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months. (2 Sam. 6:11)
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months (Luke 1:56).

The house of Obed-edom was blessed by the presence of the ark of the Old Covenant. (2 Sam. 6:11)
In the account of Mary’s visit to Elizabeth, the word blessed is used three times; surely Elizabeth’s house was blessed by God. (Luke 1:39–45)

The ark of the Old Covenant returns home and ends up in Jerusalem, God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple. (2 Sam. 6:12; 1 Kgs. 8:9–11)
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple. (Luke 1:56; 2:21–22)

Dressed as a priest, David danced and leapt in front of the ark of the Old Covenant. (2 Sam. 6:14)
John the Baptist—of priestly lineage—leapt in his mother’s womb at the approach of Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant. (Luke 1:41)

David shouts in the presence of the ark of the Old Covenant. (2 Sam. 6:15)
Elizabeth “exclaimed with a loud cry” in the presence of the Mary, the Ark of the Old Covenant. (Luke 1:42)

The ark of the Old Covenant disappeared, and no trace of it can be found anywhere on earth.
Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, was assumed bodily into heaven by God at the end of her earthly life, and no trace of her can be found anywhere on earth.
 
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