Struggling with my Faith

  • Thread starter Thread starter marci
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
1234electrik said:
With NFP the couple are doing something, they are working out when she’s infertile and then only having sex during that time. Using a condom may be used with the “specific intent to block life,” and so is NFP - people practice NFP with the “specific intent to block life.” No difference at all.
Click to expand...
I knew someone would say what you are saying; I should have clarified my statement more specifically. You are correct, if a couple is using NFP with the specific intent of blocking life then that is wrong, if they are still open to life then there is nothing wrong with NFP for a valid reason.
 
Bishopite said:
I knew someone would say what you are saying; I should have clarified my statement more specifically. You are correct, if a couple is using NFP with the specific intent of blocking life then that is wrong, if they are still open to life then there is nothing wrong with NFP for a valid reason.
Click to expand...
But that’s the reason Catholic use it!
 
1234electrik said:
But that’s the reason Catholic use it!
Click to expand...
I agree, 1234electrik. I would say most catholics that use NFP use it to thwart conception. How can you be open to life if you only have sex when you know the woman can’t get pregnant? If a couple were truely open to life then they would have sex anytime, during fertile and infertile periods. Again, the arguments do not sound logical to me.
 
The Church has a prohibition against onanism, always has. The Church has always maintained that abstinence is the only acceptable method for avoiding children. Barrier methods of contraception are a variation of onanism, the pill acts as a possible abortifacient, and NFP is an application of abstinence. It is the only opton that fits the bill (besides total abstinence) when there are just reasons for avoiding pregnancy.

To address your other concerns: I have always had a problem with the discrepancies I perceive between what I hear from my local priest and what I read in official Church documents.

I think some of my discontent in the past has been from my Americanized attitude of “my worship experience.” I now go to church to worship God, and if I get anything out of it, then great, but that’s not the point. The point is to worship God in the Church that I know belongs to Him, with all its imperfections.

HTH
 
1234electrik said:
But that’s the reason Catholic use it!
Click to expand...
Whether or not Catholics use it that way is irrelevant and you are arguing against how people use something that the Catholic Church allows AND teaches.
Your argument is akin to saying that because many Catholics think the Eucharist is merely a symbol, that makes the Eucharist wrong.
Again, whether or not Catholics use it that way is irrelevant to the issue of it being an act of contraception. If a couple uses NFP for serious reasons, and open to the possibility of life, they are NOT commiting a sin.
 
marci said:
I agree, 1234electrik. I would say most catholics that use NFP use it to thwart conception. How can you be open to life if you only have sex when you know the woman can’t get pregnant? If a couple were truely open to life then they would have sex anytime, during fertile and infertile periods. Again, the arguments do not sound logical to me.

Well, again whether or not NFP sounds “logical” to you is again, irrelevant. You and I are NOT the Magisterium; that is the Bishops in union with the Pope and they allow NFP.
And for the record, I am married and don’t practice NFP. And my Catholic brother has eight children and the ninth one on the way, soon. 🙂
Click to expand...
 
Marci,

First let me remind you that “The church cannot fail” remember what Jesus said “On this Rock I build my church, and the gates of hell cannot prevail”.

Also, remember that when doubt enters your mind, it is probably Satan… He wants those that he doesn’t yet have.
  1. The raising of fist? I believe that we should turn the other cheek. Do you get involved in the pro-life movements at your parish? I do! We are currently doing the “40 Days for Life” with 40 days of prayer and fasting.
Are you positive that the politicians you are speaking of infact receive communion? Do you attend a Parish with one? If so, then speak with your priest. The ultimate responsibility falls on the person receiving. If you were not a well known public feature, then what would prevent you from partaking?
  1. My father is a fairly wealthy man. He gives money frequently to drunks and drug addicted people that work for him. He sometimes pays their rent, buys groceries, provides them with a car. I got very upset with him one day and I sort of blew up at him over this stuff. He yelled at me and my thinking changed that day when he said “THE KIDS CAN’T HELP WHO THEIR PARENTS ARE AND WHAT THEY DO”. He was correct. The same goes for the people in the foreign countries you are referring to. We were just blessed to have been born in the USA.
  2. WHERE DID THIS ONE COME FROM?? The church is not the salvation of mankind and never has been… JESUS CHRIST is our salvation. I just became Catholic and I believe that a person can bust hell wide open… Maybe you need some refreshing with an RCIA class. I promise it can help. Many of the people in our classes have been Catholic all their lives and they are learning new stuff.
  3. Even Jesus died via the death penalty. And as for divorce… if the marriage is not valid (both persons being Catholic and being married in a Catholic church) Annulment is very difficult. Do you know someone that has received one? I know many that have been denied.
  4. NFP and ABC are totally different. Coming into the church, I couldn’t figure out why either could be wrong… I was shown… I’m also an RN. Would it be wrong for two married people not to have sex? Well, that is what happened even in the days of Abraham. This was their birth control. Today, we have a method of being able to have sex with the possibility of children (although limited). Birth Control Pills can abort fertile eggs (babies). Condoms are what is referred to in the Bible as “spilling the seed” by preventing the sperm from entering. Not so with NFP.
  5. Why are you worried about what language the Mass is spoken in? And why do you think that has caused problems? I personally would never have come into the Catholic Church if I had went to a Mass and not only didn’t understand what people were doing, but also didn’t understand what they were saying. The rate of conversions has increased dramatically. What difference does it make what a person wears to Mass, just so long as the person comes to Mass. Do you think that people dressed up to hear the Apostles? Do you think that they dressed up the see Jesus? Well, they didn’t… most of them only had one set of clothes and they didn’t bathe very frequently.
  6. Muslims worship the same God. They are just screwed up in the way that they do it. I’ve seen plenty of so called “christian” relegions do the same thing.
  7. We already have married priest. You should read up on that one. Some of the Apostles were married also I believe. A married man can become a Priest… But a Priest cannot marry.
    Women will never become priest in the Catholic faith, and homosexuals will never marry in the church.
  8. Satan has planted doubt in your mind. Is he using the TV, the Computer, or a person to place that doubt there?
You will only get out of your faith what you put into it. Research, study, and work with your parish to change the things that bother you.

I’ll be praying for you and your doubts.
 
Hi Marci…in every single age in The Church there has been conflict and there will be until Jesus returns and establishes all things in Himself. There are things in The Church that I cannot agree with; however obedience is a virtue that I prize and I obey but register my protest, either by actually protesting somehow, or by registering my protest with God and this brings a level of grief, of sense of loss. A suffering, a cross.
I have an ongoing issue at the moment involving me in public statements (nothing personal) through letters to the editor of our Catholic newspaper and thankfully, all but one have been published. Am I getting anywhere, no - I really dont think I am. Not yet - but hold out hope - and everytime the issue comes up and if God gives me motivation and inspiration, I speak up.
At times in the face of issue or issues that put me in conflict with The Church somewhere, it has crossed my mind to leave The Church. Toss the towel in and just leave. I cannot, for I cannot leave Christ.

Don’t leave and dont abandon your Faith in Christ…for my Faith is not invested in The Church human, as it now functions…rather my Faith is invested in Christ and The Church transcendent as She will be when all things are restored in Christ. The Church needs intelligent people who are not afraid to speak up and with clarity of thought and can live with conflict and frustration of their own concepts and ideas - such is a trial and a suffering of kind. It is a cross and united to The Passion is redemptive.

Don’t leave Christ! “I am the Vine, you are the branches”

God’s Blessings and His Peace…and my prayers…Barb
 
marci said:
I agree, 1234electrik. I would say most catholics that use NFP use it to thwart conception. How can you be open to life if you only have sex when you know the woman can’t get pregnant? If a couple were truely open to life then they would have sex anytime, during fertile and infertile periods. Again, the arguments do not sound logical to me.
Click to expand...
NFP is used to space children, or not to ever have children, if a serious reason exists:
With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.
Click to expand...
Responsible parenthood, as we use the term here, has one further essential aspect of paramount importance. It concerns the objective moral order which was established by God, and of which a right conscience is the true interpreter. In a word, the exercise of responsible parenthood requires that husband and wife, keeping a right order of priorities, recognize their own duties toward God, themselves, their families and human society.
Click to expand...
From this it follows that they are not free to act as they choose in the service of transmitting life, as if it were wholly up to them to decide what is the right course to follow. On the contrary, they are bound to ensure that what they do corresponds to the will of God the Creator. The very nature of marriage and its use makes His will clear, while the constant teaching of the Church spells it out…
Click to expand...
HV
Click to expand...
Please consider reading the entire encyclical. Catholics may have legitimate reasons for avoiding conception. That is not evil. How that is done may be evil.

I ask again if one needs money may one obtain it in any manner even though the result is the same?
 
thomasf said:
Sounds like to me you’re not listening to what the church is saying, but rather what other people think the church is saying, or what you believe the church is saying. Sounds like you’re letting your perceptions of what the church has become cloud what the church actually is. And if that’s the case, I can see why you would think that the church doesn’t have the truth. Because the church you describe doesn’t sound true to me either. Problem is, that’s not the catholic church that you described.
Click to expand...
Father, I pray that You guide Your doubting daughter to Your truth. Amen.
 
I have had many of the same doubts but after alot of prayer as well at contemplation with an open heart and mind I finally overcame all of these tempatations.

These ideas are definately implanted by evil, ask God to show you the truth and he will. But only if you are willing to surrender your pride.

Pray the rosary and ask that you may understand.
 
BarbaraTherese said:
Don’t leave and dont abandon your Faith in Christ…for my Faith is not invested in The Church human, as it now functions…rather my Faith is invested in Christ and The Church transcendent as She will be when all things are restored in Christ. The Church needs intelligent people who are not afraid to speak up and with clarity of thought and can live with conflict and frustration of their own concepts and ideas - such is a trial and a suffering of kind. It is a cross and united to The Passion is redemptive.
Click to expand...
I couldn’t agree more. It’s just sometimes I feel so discouraged. Sometimes I tire of “fighting the good fight” with people who shouldn’t have to be goated into doing what’s right.
Don’t leave Christ! “I am the Vine, you are the branches”
Click to expand...
As I said in my OP. I can’t leave the Eucharist and I am devoted to the Blessed Mother. I went to confession today and I do feel lifted. Thank you to all who posted and prayed for me.
 
Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death. Amen.
 
Marci,

I have sent you a private message, but, I wanted to apologize here as well.

This is not the debate forum. This is the prayer forum. I am a prayer warrior and it is my goal to pray for those asking for prayer. You were obviously asking for prayer, not debate. I’m sorry and I’m sure that others here feel the same way.

I will begin praying for you now. May our Father increase your faith in His Church!
 
pyropam said:
Marci,

I have sent you a private message, but, I wanted to apologize here as well.

This is not the debate forum. This is the prayer forum. I am a prayer warrior and it is my goal to pray for those asking for prayer. You were obviously asking for prayer, not debate. I’m sorry and I’m sure that others here feel the same way.

I will begin praying for you now. May our Father increase your faith in His Church!
Click to expand...
Thanks pyropam. I sent you a PM as well. God Bless you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top