Struggling with reconciling this modern interpretation

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… of “no salvation outside of the Catholic Church” with what seems to be a clear intent of other popes to say that one has to be a VISIBLE member of the Church.

The declaration of Boniface VIII states that “neither pagans nor heretics nor schematics…”

Now, if it just said heretics or schematics it would be easy to understand this it’s modern definition but since it says “pagans” it seems to indicate those who are outside the Church and have never been considered in the church.

Any thoughts? I really don’t want to think that the Church has changed a dogma…

Thank you.
 
I think that the church never changed. What popes/saints say outside their teachings is not part of our tradition and we’re not required to believe.
For instance, Baptism of Desire is extended to ALL without Baptism who did not have the proper opportunity to live within the church but lead a good life based in natural law and their religion (or lack thereof).
 
I cut and pasted this from the CA Forum, but I neglected to note the url or the poster’s name. It is the definitive answer to the quotes taken from the Papal Bull, Unum Sanctum by Protestants (and some Catholics).

QUOTE

Re: Unam Sanctum question.

One must also understand what the bull Unam sanctam was actually about. Boniface VIII didn’t just wake up one day and decide to declare that non-Catholics can’t be saved. In fact, Unam sanctam has nothing to do with non-Catholics at all!

The bull was part of a fierce and longrunning political dispute between Boniface, a rather impolitic pope, and Philip the Fair of France, who wanted to tax the clergy and exert more control over religious institutions. Two two traded diplomatic barbs for several years: Philip sought to try the bishop of Pamiers for treason; Boniface shot back the condescending bull Ausculta Fili (“Now you listen to me, kiddo”).

Eventually Boniface issued Unam sanctam. Again, it has nothing whatsoever to do with non-Catholics. Everyone involved here was Catholic. It is about the relationship between temporal rulers, like kings, and the spiritual authorities. So he writes:

*t is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. . . . Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal.
. . .
Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man . . . . Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God.

That, in a nutshell, is what the bull is about. Now, it would be quite strange for Boniface to have written a whole bull about the hierarchy of temporal and religious authorities, and then to tack on as a total afterthought the dogma that some think they see here: “Oh yeah, and by the way, apropos of nothing, everybody in the world must be a Catholic to be saved. Just thought I’d throw that out there.”

This is not to say that it isn’t true that people must be Catholic to be saved – what do I know? – only that Unam sanctam is simply about a totally different topic altogether. So phrases like “be subject to the Roman Pontiff” have to be understood in terms of what Boniface was actually trying to do with the bull and the message he was attempting to communicate about temporal authority; it’s misleading if we try to pretend he was writing this on a completely different subject matter.

Oh, and by the way, after this, Boniface excommunicated Philip, who then sent mercenaries to attack him and plunder his palace. Boniface died a month later from the trauma. It’s easy to read the high-sounding and rather bombastic language of Unam sanctam and think, “Wow, those were the days! What majestic papal power!” In fact, this period was a real nadir of papal authority, from which it would never fully recover.

END QUOTE*
 
… of “no salvation outside of the Catholic Church” with what seems to be a clear intent of other popes to say that one has to be a VISIBLE member of the Church.

The declaration of Boniface VIII states that “neither pagans nor heretics nor schematics…”

Now, if it just said heretics or schematics it would be easy to understand this it’s modern definition but since it says “pagans” it seems to indicate those who are outside the Church and have never been considered in the church.

Any thoughts? I really don’t want to think that the Church has changed a dogma…

Thank you.
Read Dempsey’s post #14 in the linked thread. A very good explanation.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=420832
 
The declaration of Boniface VIII states that “neither pagans nor heretics nor schematics…”
Are you thinking of Pope Eugene IV?

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441:

The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

It’s still the teaching of the Church that pagans outside the Church are damned. Remember that the Church is the body of Christ, and thus all who are saved are in some way part of the Church. Therefore, these theories about how pagans might be saved (invincible ignorance, baptism by desire, etc.) presume that those saved pagans are in fact part of the Church, even if they don’t know they are.
 
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