Struggling with sin. Please help

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Yes, lust is sinful, but masturbation is also sinful because it engages the biology of reproduction but misuses it. Think of it this way: someone can be having intercourse with his/her spouse but could be sinning if lust is raging in their intentions (i.e., doing it for purely selfish reasons). Masturbation is sinful objectively speaking because it is misusing the function of sex (spilling of the seed), but lust is a compounding factor too.

Lust? The word escapes me in english.
Eroticism, sensuality, Lust, sexual desire, what are the words used in English that are within the boundaries of the Catholic right Faith.
None of them for me is sin.
If you lust your wife, it is something.
If you must another woman it is another.
If you lust another woman and have an affair with her it is another.

I do not know even if my english is correct… just putting some wood in the fire…

 

[Crumpy]

People are afflicted with many temptations for all kinds of sins. We see it discussed in these forums every day.

If there is a “silver bullet” cure for temptation x, y, or z I don’t know what it is. Every person is different.

But, the way of life that we are given, by Divine revelation, is prayer and God’s word. And, whether somebody’s temptation or sin is abortion, contraception, fornication, anger, lust, theft, or even murder, the general answer is “general conversion.”

I don’t think there’s just a teensy-wheensy little part of my life that I need to turn around. I need to turn around the whole thing. think about it. Maybe you’re in the same boat as I am.

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI said in the first volume of his book Jesus of Nazareth that we have a right and a duty to present our needs to God. We have a duty to present these needs to God, because we do not have an automatic right to his mercy, as infinite as it is.
We need to pray continually, as scripture says, to overcome our temptation.

We need to be thankful for all that God provides every moment of the day, and be grateful for each of his blessings. We shouldn’t take his mercy for granted.

It is a sin to reject the opportunity to repent of our sins. Whew. that’s a mouthful, but think about it. God gives us an opportunity to repent, and we should take advantage of it.

and, I’m not preaching here, I hope you realize I’m just sharing my own belief and experience. we’re all in the same struggle every day.

 

[surritter]

I guess we are all entitiled to our own opinion and interpretation, like pulling a rabbit out of a hat? Masturbation directs our sexuality inward…huh? What?

Nice opinion.

Certainly not biblical, as that written directly for men!

You are again rallying around this “opinion” thing, as if that is what determines truth. That’s called moral relativism, and it is an illogical philosophy.

You honestly don’t understand how masturbation can be viewed as directing sexuality inward? Think about it … there ain’t anyone else in the room!

And once again, why must everything we believe be dictated verbatim from the Bible? This isn’t Catholic belief.

 

[Crumpy]

You are again rallying around this “opinion” thing, as if that is what determines truth. That’s called moral relativism, and it is an illogical philosophy.

You honestly don’t understand how masturbation can be viewed as directing sexuality inward? Think about it … there ain’t anyone else in the room!

And once again, why must everything we believe be dictated verbatim from the Bible? This isn’t Catholic belief.

I think it’s hollow to say we don’t believe verbatim from the bible. It’s a lot more complicated than that. I think that statement can mislead a lot of people. with all charity, if you want to say something, then say it. If you want to repeat what the church teaches, then why not say it? Why leave somebody “hanging” with a vague generality about being “dictated” by the Bible, in the first place (It’s God who is dictating, if anybody is dictating) and second, why not just come out and say what the Church teaches on this.

the catechism is vague on the culpability for masturbation. If you want to see relativism, see the Cathechism’s statement on masturbation. Maybe it’s a mortal sin, maybe it’s a venial sin, maybe it’s hardly a sin at all. If you want to get legalistic about it, the catechism’s statement on masturbation is sure not the place to put your foot down – without seriously passing judgment on somebody else.

I write a lot of posts, and I don’t get much reaction to them. I still recommend my previous post – overcoming compulsive masturbation or any other compulsive sin requires a general conversion.

Jesus says the greatest commandment is love the Lord our God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our mind, and with all our strength. That’s what I’m referring to as a general conversion, top to bottom.

You know, with a particular temptation like masturbation, are we fighting that temptation with all our strength? Are we really giving it everything we’ve got? I think we need to focus on the general matter of our commitment to God, in order to address and focus on particular temptations like this. In other words, a general solution for a particular problem.

We are all sinners, and we need a general solution.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think it’s hollow to say we don’t believe verbatim from the bible. It’s a lot more complicated than that. I think that statement can mislead a lot of people. with all charity, if you want to say something, then say it. If you want to repeat what the church teaches, then why not say it? Why leave somebody “hanging” with a vague generality about being “dictated” by the Bible, in the first place (It’s God who is dictating, if anybody is dictating) and second, why not just come out and say what the Church teaches on this.

**the catechism is vague on the culpability for masturbation. If you want to see relativism, see the Cathechism’s statement on masturbation. Maybe it’s a mortal sin, maybe it’s a venial sin, maybe it’s hardly a sin at all. If you want to get legalistic about it, the catechism’s statement on masturbation is sure not the place to put your foot down – without seriously passing judgment on somebody else.
**
I write a lot of posts, and I don’t get much reaction to them. I still recommend my previous post – overcoming compulsive masturbation or any other compulsive sin requires a general conversion.

Jesus says the greatest commandment is love the Lord our God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our mind, and with all our strength. That’s what I’m referring to as a general conversion, top to bottom.

You know, with a particular temptation like masturbation, are we fighting that temptation with all our strength? Are we really giving it everything we’ve got? I think we need to focus on the general matter of our commitment to God, in order to address and focus on particular temptations like this. In other words, a general solution for a particular problem.

We are all sinners, and we need a general solution.

I don’t think the CC is vague at all. Here it is:

2352

By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

–

I guess I see what you mean with the last paragraph, but to me, that only applies IF there really are mitigating circumstances. For most of us, not so much.

 

[surritter]

I think it’s hollow to say we don’t believe verbatim from the bible. It’s a lot more complicated than that. I think that statement can mislead a lot of people. with all charity, if you want to say something, then say it. If you want to repeat what the church teaches, then why not say it? Why leave somebody “hanging” with a vague generality about being “dictated” by the Bible, in the first place (It’s God who is dictating, if anybody is dictating) and second, why not just come out and say what the Church teaches on this.

the catechism is vague on the culpability for masturbation. If you want to see relativism, see the Cathechism’s statement on masturbation. Maybe it’s a mortal sin, maybe it’s a venial sin, maybe it’s hardly a sin at all. If you want to get legalistic about it, the catechism’s statement on masturbation is sure not the place to put your foot down – without seriously passing judgment on somebody else.

I write a lot of posts, and I don’t get much reaction to them. I still recommend my previous post – overcoming compulsive masturbation or any other compulsive sin requires a general conversion.

Jesus says the greatest commandment is love the Lord our God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our mind, and with all our strength. That’s what I’m referring to as a general conversion, top to bottom.

You know, with a particular temptation like masturbation, are we fighting that temptation with all our strength? Are we really giving it everything we’ve got? I think we need to focus on the general matter of our commitment to God, in order to address and focus on particular temptations like this. In other words, a general solution for a particular problem.

We are all sinners, and we need a general solution.

Not sure where you’re getting all this. Sure, we are to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. This requires a daily conversion. It also requires us to follow His commandments.

The Catechism is very clear on masturbation. It is objectively a grave sin. Of course, calling it a mortal sin is not appropriate until we assess the knowledge and consent factors of the person. This can only be done with the help of a good confessor, and most of us in this thread agree that the OP was not really guilty of mortal sin.

I made the statement about beliefs not always being directly, verbatim from the Bible in response to LayingHands’ post … simply follow the discussion and you’ll see the context. (Obviously many of our beliefs are right out of the Bible!) Her statement was that the idea of masturbation being sinful and directing sexuality inward is not in the Bible. I agree. The statement that Mary was assumed into Heaven body and soul is also not in the Bible! Get the idea? We are a people of the Church, and the Bible flowed from the Church. It’s not the other way around.

Your general advice about fighting temptation with all our might is good, and applies well to the young lady that began this thread. But when others disparage Church teaching out of misunderstanding, there is certainly a place to jump in and offer fraternal correction.

 

[LayingHands]

I don’t think the CC is vague at all. Here it is:

2352

By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

–

I guess I see what you mean with the last paragraph, but to me, that only applies IF there really are mitigating circumstances. For most of us, not so much.

I like this one better, surriter…essentially contrary to purpose…the sexual relationship which is demamded by the moral code…in the context of love…conditions of anxiety or other psychological factors…so not biblical for women as for men, but moral as per the CC regarding love, marriage and procreation…

That’s not what the poster asked…nor does it have to be by man’s aim alone, through love as per another post…women are not here for the use, cause or need of men alone…and since GOD created our women’s body to orgasm, at need in anxiety…the end result becomes ours alone…

Remember when Our Lord Jesus Christ called the Jewish elders "Ye hypocrites, you do not follow the written word of GOD, but ye follow the words of Man! (something along those lines).

No one said anything about LOVE and Marriage!

p.s. ask your gynocologist regarding orgasm for insomnia, it’s a medical thingy, really!

 

[surritter]

I like this one better, surriter…essentially contrary to purpose…the sexual relationship which is demamded by the moral code…in the context of love…conditions of anxiety or other psychological factors…so not biblical for women as for men, but moral as per the CC regarding love, marriage and procreation…

That’s not what the poster asked…nor does it have to be by man’s aim alone, through love as per another post…women are not here for the use, cause or need of men alone…and since GOD created our women’s body to orgasm, at need in anxiety…the end result becomes ours alone…

Remember when Our Lord Jesus Christ called the Jewish elders "Ye hypocrites, you do not follow the written word of GOD, but ye follow the words of Man! (something along those lines).

No one said anything about LOVE and Marriage!

Glad that the Catechism’s explanation helps you. My earlier statements were in line with the Catechism, which is quite clear that masturbation is intrinsically wrong. You seemed to imply that this particular rule could be bent if there is sufficient need; that’s not in this passage of the Catechism. Plus, I had never mentioned a word about casting guilt on a particular person; we were discussing the objective morality of the action.

p.s. ask your gynocologist regarding orgasm for insomnia, it’s a medical thingy, really!

Klunk … Your post was going well up until here. Even for medical reasons, we can never purposely do something intrinsically wrong. Please don’t give advice contrary to Church teaching, even under the guise of medical reasons.

 

[LayingHands]

Glad that the Catechism’s explanation helps you. My earlier statements were in line with the Catechism, which is quite clear that masturbation is intrinsically wrong. You seemed to imply that this particular rule could be bent if there is sufficient need; that’s not in this passage of the Catechism. Plus, I had never mentioned a word about casting guilt on a particular person; we were discussing the objective morality of the action.

Klunk … Your post was going well up until here. Even for medical reasons, we can never purposely do something intrinsically wrong. Please don’t give advice contrary to Church teaching, even under the guise of medical reasons.

Ok, know we have something…masturbation is intrinsically wrong for women per the Catechism, however, everything intrinsically wrong is NOT SIN…cool, so far…and until you are in a medical condition of having either or both, insomnia or anxiety/stress and are facing this situation, to either take multiple prescribed medications which effects every portion of your life or choose a more natural process, don’t poo poo medical advice, which you know nothing about!..:clapping:

 

[surritter]

Ok, now we have something…masturbation is intrinsically wrong for women per the Catechism, however, everything intrinsically wrong is NOT SIN…cool, so far…and until you are in a medical condition of having either or both, insomnia or anxiety/stress and are facing this situation, to either take multiple prescribed medications which effects every portion of your life or choose a more natural process, don’t poo poo medical advice, which you know nothing about!..:clapping:

Feel free to applaud yourself, but you are confused about the relationship between an intrinsic evil and personal sin. Yes – an evil act might not be a mortal sin for someone because of ignorance or a lack of consent. However, because an evil act might not be a mortal sin doesn’t give you the right to recommend such action.

I do not need to be “in a medical condition of having either or both” to simply alert you to clear Church teaching. (An oncologist doesn’t need to be a cancer survivor to advise a patient about the disease!)
I don’t mean to downplay the temptation to masturbate when under stress. But it’s out of line as a Catholic for you to advise someone to invite that temptation by exploring such options with a doctor. Please pray about this, and check out some other related threads or start one about this specific topic.

 

[TrueLight]

Best cure for insomnia: Say the Rosary in the dark while lying down. You won’t make it past the third decade.

 

[LayingHands]

Feel free to applaud yourself, but you are confused about the relationship between an intrinsic evil and personal sin. Yes – an evil act might not be a mortal sin for someone because of ignorance or a lack of consent. However, because an evil act might not be a mortal sin doesn’t give you the right to recommend such action.

I do not need to be “in a medical condition of having either or both” to simply alert you to clear Church teaching. (An oncologist doesn’t need to be a cancer survivor to advise a patient about the disease!)
I don’t mean to downplay the temptation to masturbate when under stress. But it’s out of line as a Catholic for you to advise someone to invite that temptation by exploring such options with a doctor. Please pray about this, and check out some other related threads or start one about this specific topic.

Thanks for the advice, but, you see regarding this matter, it is a subject which a then, young Nun, from my all girl Catholic High School, informed us about…and you are misinforming people to believe this is evil and sinful…because you say so…she said it was Natural and private…

Just like you, I would allow that Jesus says we all must prove things to ourselves…plus there are many things which has been incorporated into the RCC which neither Jesus, nor God have said or advised on…in reality, be a hypocrite, if you so desire, but, don’t make things up, as you go along…

 

[surritter]

Thanks for the advice, but, you see regarding this matter, it is a subject which a then, young Nun, from my all girl Catholic High School, informed us about…and you are misinforming people to believe this is evil and sinful…because you say so…she said it was Natural and private…

Just like you, I would allow that Jesus says we all must prove things to ourselves…plus there are many things which has been incorporated into the RCC which neither Jesus, nor God have said or advised on…in reality, be a hypocrite, if you so desire, but, don’t make things up, as you go along…

You believe a single, misinformed nun over the Catechism of the Catholic Church and two thousand years of constant teaching?
(If I quote a nun who says abortion is sometimes OK, you’ll accept that, I suppose?)

My posts are 100% in line with the Church. Yours are not. This is easily verified. Whether you like the teaching or not, and choose to follow it or not, is a different matter. It sounds like you have a personal axe to grind with Mother Church. Do so with your confessor, not a public forum.

 

[LayingHands]

You believe a single, misinformed nun over the Catechism of the Catholic Church and two thousand years of constant teaching?
(If I quote a nun who says abortion is sometimes OK, you’ll accept that, I suppose?)

My posts are 100% in line with the Church. Yours are not. This is easily verified. Whether you like the teaching or not, and choose to follow it or not, is a different matter. It sounds like you have a personal axe to grind with Mother Church. Do so with your confessor, not a public forum.

Any Nun would Never say such a thing about abortion, and you are way out of line! Nuns are excellent teachers and proclaimers of the One Almighty GOD and his only Begotten Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind with a Nun? I’m done with you…God Bless you!

 

[stewstew03]

…she said it was Natural and private…

Feelings of rage are natural too (i.e., not a social construct), I guess it’s okay to act upon my rage during rush hour traffic? Pedophiles also describe their urges as “natural” - is it okay for them to act upon their urges in private (assuming they act upon them alone)?

…plus there are many things which has been incorporated into the RCC which neither Jesus, nor God have said or advised on…

Examples?

…don’t make things up, as you go along…

Ironically, this is the impression I got from your posts as I read them. Surriter at least cited the Catechism as an authority. You cited an obscure nun from your high school days as an authority on this matter…?

Any Nun would Never say such a thing about abortion, and you are way out of line!

My guess is that you are not familiar with the nuns who supported ObamaCare, including it’s pro-abortion aspects?

 

[lily20]

You can find peace by fasting in prayer for an answer to your troubles. The Lord may be able to reveal some wisdom to you during this fast or later that will help you.

Also, don’t be so hard on yourself. Addiction (sexual/etc) is hard to overcome. It takes a lot of patience and self-control, over many months. It cannot be conquered overnight, usually.

Being around people who have the same practices of abstinence is helpful. Also, going to Mass regularly (daily?) can help. Confession. Also anything in your life that can distract you-- a new skill, working on something else, etc. I hope this helps.

~Lily

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Best cure for insomnia: Say the Rosary in the dark while lying down. You won’t make it past the third decade.

 

[LayingHands]

So I hear…but, this could be a sin too…you are never to pray while hoping to fall asleep, it goes against the attitude and attention, and veneration, you are required to keep, while praying/communing with Our Lady, or Our Father GOD, or our Lord Jesus Christ…:doh2:

 

[LayingHands]

Feelings of rage are natural too (i.e., not a social construct), I guess it’s okay to act upon my rage during rush hour traffic? Pedophiles also describe their urges as “natural” - is it okay for them to act upon their urges in private (assuming they act upon them alone)?

Examples?

Ironically, this is the impression I got from your posts as I read them. Surriter at least cited the Catechism as an authority. You cited an obscure nun from your high school days as an authority on this matter…?

My guess is that you are not familiar with the nuns who supported ObamaCare, including it’s pro-abortion aspects?

Obscure nun? She was a Teacher whom I knew for 4 years…when nuns still worn full habits…you should have heard what our Priests said…same human sexuality class, probably shock the beegeebers right out of you…

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

So I hear…but, this could be a sin too…you are never to pray while hoping to fall asleep, it goes against the attitude and attention, and veneration, you are required to keep, while praying/communing with Our Lady, or Our Father GOD, or our Lord Jesus Christ…:doh2:

Some guys a good sin-makers on inventing sins.
That is why OCD group is the most active, look at the right side.
The lady told that, if you pray the rosary, you sleep fast.
She did not say that she said the rosary to sleep. I think this situation would lead to no-sleep.
Besides, what is the problem with getting into sleep praying?
Didn’t you ever slept in the lap of you mother?
So, God is our father, God is our Mother.