Stuck. SSA Faith Friends Fear Failure

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Joe_73

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Not sure if this the right category.

I’ve been struggling with SSA, particularily with masturbation and fantasies, but it’s really been a secondary struggle. It’s more being addicted to sex, as a way to escape the pain and stress. It’s a bad solution to my problems.

I started talking with some people in the Eastern Orthodox Church on other forums, and I started questioning my faith, because of the whole schism debate. I didn’t talk to anyone about this, except for briefly with some priests in confession, cause It’s diffficult, and I just hoped it would sort itself out.It didn’t. I’ve spent a few months wasting away time looking at typical internet apologetics, getting pretty much nowhere. Before I had something to grasp on to, the uninvestigated assumption that the catholic church was the obvious canidate for the faith when looking at history. So naturally, when the orthodox church was brought into the equation, which I hardly knew about, (I might have learned about it in history at a catholic middle school, but if so, it went over my head), I felt the need to double check everything. I’ve been kinda stuck in this cycle. I’m almost at ground zero trying to get my faith back somehow. I had to convince myself God was real, which I did by trusting the testimonies of people I know/trust of little miracles that suggest the supernatural. It’s scaring me, I ran into someone on reddit who said they had debunked mormonism, as well as catholicism, by studying biblical history. I ran right toward looking up those kinds of views, because I needed to see them, and hopefully see the truth despite the arguments. Without being sure of what faith I am (particularily stuck between catholic and orthodox), I’ve been a bit of a spiritual mess. I’m constantly having doubts about things, like the validity of the catholic eucharist, to be honest, I think its valid most of the time, but I worry. And I had to use some intense logic in order to convince myself it was ok to recieve. That’s almost sorted out.
Anyway, I am hoping I can keep my catholic faith, but just not sure what to do, or how to figure it out. I’m having a hard time trusting people, after so many disapointing finds, most of the catholic apologetics on the internet are just a bunch of quotes, not caring much about context, supporting the primacy of peter, of course, but not really answering the difficult questions, like papal supremacy, and schism from the pope ect. I know that way back there were at least a couple church fathers, that definately had some of those positions, and I might be able to learn more about history, but I’ve realized the church father’s are no closer to answering these questions than I am. I don’t know what I can grab on to to pick a view over the other. I’ve ready on the catholic encyclopedia website, that the schism was really about the see of constantinople, and the east rising in power and secularizing things, interesting claim, but I don’t know where to find supporting evidence for it, or if it’s just a hypothesis. (continues)
 
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(continued)
Anyway, as I first discussed, I’ve fallen into some sins, and I need to get to confession, but I’ve been constantly hesitating. The last couples times, in the past couple days was because at this church, I was not sure which priest would be there, and there was a chance that it would be this young priest. Let’s call him Father John. I’ve talked to him a couple times, and he seems invested in knowing me, but I’m incredibly anxious/embaressed about disclosing my SSA’s to him, which will neccesarily happen if I am to confess my sins. Complicating things, I’ve had sort of an emotional crush on him, if you will, that is, He reminds me a self a bit, he looks young, but a little bit older than me, but he’s got his vocation on the road, he’s sociable, youthful and decidely masculine in appearence. There’s a slight infatuation sometimes, simply because I see things in him I feel insecure about/envy. I’m insecure about age, my life direction, my appearence.

I am ok with this, and I am aware of my emotional need to feel accepted by men, especially by those who I feel inferior to, to heal those insecurities and wounds, and so I am ok with this attraction, so long as I keep it in touch with reality, not let my imagination do the work and run out of control in desperation, but use it in real life application.
I have a similar attraction to a guy at the young adult group I’m going to, He’s married, young, handsome, friendly, popular, ect. Let’s call him David.

My attractions to any men, can turn into sexual fantasy out of desperation, as a way to cheat the fealing of emotional high, and the illusion of emotional connection, when I’m lonely, but they don’t have to, and/so I figure it will be beneficial to pursue the feelings in reality.
I did talk to Father John briefly about my faith struggle in confession, but I’m pretty certain I avoided bringing up my homosexual attractions, as I thought it was uninmportant at the time, I think I just discussed my sexual sins without specifying the nature exactly. He said I could talk to him if I needed to. There’s a slight chance I did bring up my homosexual attractions, but I don’t remember doing so, so probably not.

Outside of confession, the only one I brought it up to was my mom, and a catholic counseler, and people on the internet.
(continues)
 
On ash wednesday my problems came to sort of a peak. through the past couple of days I’d been thinking about calling up Father John. Then I chickened out on going to confession, afraid of seeing him there, and then I went to mass, and refrained from recieving the eucharist. The sermon was good, but I was emotionally desperate for love, from God and man. And I realized how desperately I desired to get my stuff together, I wish I could go into lent without all this baggage. After mass, I saw Father John, but did not get the courage to even say hi to him, because He might have asked me how I was doing, and It would be lying to pretend I was fine, but I was also not sure what I would say otherwise. I ran into David after mass, Who happily greeted me, noted in our conversation that I was at mass alone, without my family, and probably noticed I was a couple towns away from my local parish. and almost as if he could see into my soul asked me if there was anything going on, which I dismissed, as if nothing besides regular life struggles were going on.
And tonight, I wanted to go a men’s night event at a local church, but there was a mass at the begining, and I stayed away from it, because I don’t think I would have the courage to stay back from communion in front of all those men, so I avoided the situation entirely so as not to commit sacriledge, and I worried about what it would be like showing up late to the talk(after the prayer, and after the mass).

(continued)
So my problems are essentially these: 1. I need to connect, I want to with these guys, but I’m to scared to talk about stuff, I worry about what they will assume, what conclusions/understandings they will jump to, particularily in regards to my attraction to them, which I described above. I was fine with my feelings, but now that I might actually talk about it, I’m second guessing stuff. I don’t know how to go about opening up to people.
2. My faith is unraveled significantly
3. I need to talk to someone, and I need some help figuring it out.
4. I got to get to confession, this one might take care of itself, as the next confession times, are with priests I’m comfortable talking to.
5. I’m disapointed I didn’t work out things enough to make it to the men’s talk.

So…
Faith
Friends
Fear
Failure

to put it nicely.

I need advice, encourage, or prayers. I figure it’s better to reach out for a little help(via internet), then no help at all, and I’m not really in the position, or ready to, reach out to anyone IRL at this exact moment. Thanks.
 
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Thanks.I’ll make that my next goal. But I know I need to do more than that, because I’ve been here already a few times, I need to face the other problems, cause they are driving me into the ditch.
 
I think he has an extension from the office, so scheduling should work fine. I could probably talk to him directly.
 
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Joe,
Sorry that you are going through this.
Have you checked out Courage, the support group for men with SSA? It looks helpful.
You know what you need to do: confession first. Get back to receiving the Eucharist, because this clearly is bothering you. Get some support.
I would not recommend getting mired in church history arguments. The church was instituted by Christ, but is filled with human beings and subject to problems. I would recommend reading books by Dr Scott Hahn, who is steeped in history and theology and can clarify things immensely.
As a woman, I often over the years got crushes on people I shouldn’t have. My solution was to pray for them, and for their wives. We can’t help appreciating the beauty of people in God’s image, but I remind myself that if the creature is so attractive, the Creator is even more so. And He’s the one I want to please.
So avoid fantasizing in the ways you know you shouldn’t. Pray for help. Say a Rosary daily for reparation for sins, yours and the many others who need prayers.
God bless.
I
 
Good News. I finished step 1, and I went to confession. I’m still pretty concerned though, for the faith crisis/situation.
I doesn’t feel like I have an strong arguments to grasp onto for the catholic position right now, which scares me. The possibility of being won over by the orthodox position would be put me in a difficult family situation. I don’t want to break up with the my family/friends I’m just starting to connect with, in terms of faith. It would be a death like grief. I have experienced said grief before, when I came to terms with the imperfections in my parents, and my false idealized/negative perceptions of them, as it relates to my SSA. That’s probably the fear though. and that’s why this has been so distressing.This fear is also me making me feel guilty/ashamed/mistaken, because It’s telling me that I’m emotionally holding onto the catholic church, against reason, be cause it would be uncomfortable not to… and that I ought to risk it, and open up myself more to the orthodox point of view, instead of looking for help from one side. I’m afraid that I’ll be driven mad with unaswered questions if I stay. Truth be told, I’m feeling very doubtful that people will have the answers I need, but honestly, I just don’t know. It’s obviously easier to see the orthodox position, because they don’t have the burden of proof, the catholic church does, because we are saying the Pope is the vicar of Christ, while the orthodox say it is an exageration of circumstances/invention. So I’m battling two battles: the battle for truth, and the battle for perseverance/courage, and probably worry, scrupulosity, and a few things.
(continued)
 
(continued)
I guess I know what I can tell the priest. Maybe he will have some words of wisdom. That also worries me though, because Father John really does seem like a kid. I don’t know If he will have any answers, (but maybe I’m underestimating the graces that come with being a priest). That’s the other thing that makes me worried, So many of these Catholic to Orthodox converts went over by studying the church fathers and stuff exessively. They are very intellectual, skeptical. Which is precisely what brought me here. I never stop asking questions, I take arguments way deeper than people normally would. I look at the argument, look for a refutation, and then see if I can refute the refutation. The Eastern orthodox have many such refutations of cheaply formed apologetics, at least of what I’ve seen.

For example. I’ve been thinking about Scott Han’s Isaiah 22 argument. Someone’s made a refutation, which I’ve looked: Does Isaiah 22 Prove the Papacy? – Orthodox-Reformed Bridge

I’m stuck, not sure if this is a valid refutation or not. They discuss the greek septuagint, which the orthodox prioritize over the masoretic bible, finished quite a few centuries later. In this version of the bible, there is no mention of keys in Isaiah 22. There’s another article on the same site by a different person suggesting that a proto versions/pieces of the masoretic bible probably were known by Jesus and the apostles. But it makes this Issiah argument much harder to see if it holds weight. Could Mathew 16 be referencing the Masoretic text of Issiah 22? or is it just coincidence. Complicating things, there are some websites and translations of the greek septuagint, apparently, that do include the keys, but are extremely different from other, more official sources. My knowledge and answers on this one have run out, Solving if this is a good argument got stuck, and doubt easily remained. so what was a convincing argument that kept picking me up, is a dead weight.
 
I believe The Orthodox Church is undoubtedly the only true church. There are countless miracles proving that, for example The Holy Fire miracle (look it up) which most Catholics for some reason are unaware of or tend to overlook. The only problem with the Orthodox Church is that it’s not really widespread in the west and I believe that is the reason many Catholic faithful are trying too hard to be skeptical about it.
 
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I am aware of the Holy Fire Miracle. Not sure what I think about it. It doesn’t explicitly contradict catholicism. There is a lot of mystery surrounding it though, and reasons to be skeptical, take a look at this article, for a couple examples. The “Holy Light” of Jerusalem debunked | On the way to Ithaca
There are also catholic miracles contradicting the orthodox faith. It’s not really a solution to my confusion.

It’s definately an issue that I knew very little about the orthodox church, but that doesn’t prove that it is right. The papacy seems very feasible, it’s just hard to know how to decide if it’s true, what history to trust, ect. History is very obscure and all we have is little bits and peices of the times.

While I’m not undoubtedly sure catholicism is the true church, I think there’s a very good chance it is, Putting a leader at the top of it is a good way to prevent schism, and a good marker to identify which church is right. If one was left wondering, “well how can I figure out which one it is”, The bible seemingly provides the answer: “you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”. I know people debate what that means. The antiwesternism that seems to have filled the orthodox church(it’s gone down now, I know), also makes it feel unconvincing. It’s tough to sort out though. You get two different historical views of Photius, depending on who you talk to, I don’t know what’s fact or misinformation. If I was to approach faith as a child, like we are supposed to, I would listen to the people God put in the lead at the begining, Peter, andThe bishop of Rome/Pope, who are his succesors.
I can’t just have faith and believe on a leap, because two groups of people are telling me they are right, and proposing two contradictory ideas. I could just as well make that leap with catholicism.
I’ve already been through most of the usual online apologetics, which involve thouroughly examing the quotes of the fathers. I think I’m done looking at quotes of the church fathers. Some are just too ambiguous to know, others disagree with eachother. It doesn’t look like they figured it out, as a whole. so looking to them is not going to answer the questions.

recently, I’ve been reading some history from people on both sides and comparing historical perspectives. I might get somewhere with that.

I also want to examine the issiah 22 argument I discussed through and through. I didn’t debunk it, but I got to a place where I wasn’t sure about it, and I do not have the knowledge and materials to figure out if it does. It might well be a solid argument, I just don’t know enough about biblical context.
 
Joe_73,

You are very interested in Orthodox Christinany.

I have not as much knowledge as you, just try to enlight certains points.

-Historically, before the 1054 schism, there is one Church with several patriarchats.
The Church resists many what she definied gradually as heterodoxy, such as dualism, arianism, nestoriasnism. The doctrine grows with the successives concils.
The Bishop of Rome is been looking as the leader by others patriarchats. Not officially but he has ever a prominent place.

The differents churchs had differents traditions because of their cultural background and some theological quarrels.

There is no one Orthodox Church but several Orthodox Eastern Churches ; Greek, Russian etc. They are not as unified as the Catholic Church.

Catholicism is or had been missionary and developped worldwide but less the Eastern Church, and politic had play a role in this situation.

-I believe that the main differences between Catholicism and Eastern are cultural (tongues, calendar, liturgy etc). But those differences had been grown deepers. There are differences on the marriage indissolubility, and more recently contraception.
Some people really convert to Orthodoxy for some pratical/moral issues such as divorce and remmariage, particularly in some places in Orient where is ther no civil marriage.

The Eastern Orthodoxy is culturally connect far more with his local area than the Catholicism which is by his definition the “univseral Church”.
For me, there is no point in converting in Greek Orthodoxy if you are not yourself Greek, for exemple.

Scott Hahn have write something like that in his book Rome, sweet Home : he believe that Eastern Orthodoxy have a more beautiful liturgy than the Catholicim (a more traditional one) but a stagnant theology.
.
 
I’m stuck in a rut again. I need to get to conession again. Still Haven’t made it to talking to anyone yet, cause I’m afraid they won’t have any answers for me. During my famlies evening lent service today, the point in the reflection was to talk to God like Jeremiah, which means being honest with all your complaints questions, having a Honest friendship with God, and also being able to listen to him. I went ahead and presented all of my problems to God, and tried to listen. What my conscience brought up was that I am too scared to ask God for a sign, because I am terrified of an uncomfortable outcome.My fear is preventing me from listening to anything I do not want to hear. That doesn’t mean I’m wrong, but It could be slowing me down in resolving things, because I’m afraid to see the other point of view for fear of being convinced by it. One time much earlier I did ask for a sign., I asked God for a pink car(orthodox)/green car(catholic),sign on a certain day, saying, with my words at least, that I trusted him to do whatever, At the end of the day some pink on the trailer of some kind of pickup truck caught my eye, I breathed a sigh of relief only to realize the rest of the truck besides the back, was pink. I panicked, and was not sure how to interperet this, because It didn’t match up to my desired sign exactly. I figure I should leave this particular incident behind me, as its causing confusion, and uncertainty, and stop dwelling on it, but I’m not totally sure.

(continues)
 
(continued)

And as a side note I’ve been struggling with doubt alot. It has not been good. My fear of being duped is fueling it. And broken trust. There’s been so much stuff I took for granted, that I thought made faith easy, that now I’m not sure about. Like Guadalupe, for example. There are claims that you can see the the bishop and guadalupe and others in the eyes of the image, but this could mean nothing, people seeing faces and stuff in blobby shapes. It haven’t seen anything solid There are people saying things like “That color would not have been available”, but I just don’t know where they get that tidbit of information from. There is false information out there saying NASA found a heartbeat, and that the eyes of the image dialate. People online claim the image has iredesence, but I don’t know this… And the image has not undergone testing with modern technology. The fact that many catholics I know frequently repeat these tidbits of information about miracles as if they are facts(unwittingly, of course) makes it hard to trust if anything people “know” is reliable. I am having a hard time trusting anyone, not the people themselves, but the information they are passing on.

That is really what the historical debate is about,Which historical figures have trustworthy motives, and which ones have reliable background knowledge. Did the popes get fooled into thinking they had supremacy from others, from politics or opinion,unwittingly, or is it genuine tradition, or did God inspire them? Did they have political motivations for using that position to their advantage, or was it honest? was Photius motivated by ambition, or was he bravely standing up for the truth. It seems like the idea of the papacy, in contrast to the Orthodox view lof it, existed as early as the 2nd century, in the writings we have. The question is, Was it just someones theory, their opinion, widely debated, or was it the truth? The earliest thing from a Pope is the decree of Pope Damasus in a council(3rd century), which at least suggests the Roman church will be preserved from error. Did the Popes before him know of their position in this way? Did they just not have any time to talk about it due to persecution to the extent that we would find their writings?, When did the eastern part of the church come to be, and was the papacy predominantly misunderstood in the east? I think I’m making progress with the questions I am asking anyway.
 
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