Students try to banish Catholic chaplain from campus for anti-gay stance

[stlcatholic86]

Agreed. The two students are using hate to drive out those they see as “different”.

I’m really confused. If we are discussing the issue of the two college students trying to get the Priest removed because of his anti-gay stance I agree. It is simply fighting intolerance with intolerance. Both are completely disrespectful of the others opinion and stance.

If we are talking about the kids who are denied to go to prom as being hateful I fail to see any logical connection.

 

[stlcatholic86]

No it isnt, its actually perfectly reasonable.

Key word is openly gay. That means they live the lifestyle aka engage in the behavior. That goes against what the school teaches. Allowing them could cause scandal to the other young impressionable minds that attend there.

So it is perfectly reasonable for a Bishop to not allow openly gay students to attend a Catholic school?

 

[stlcatholic86]

And you think that has nothing to do with politics? Where exactly have you been the last 20 years?

Perhaps you should read the article before claiming I brought politics into it:

Fantastic you didn’t bring politics into this debate to begin with, but you continue to perpetuate it. Perhaps, we should be the bigger people and not invoke the political context. I apologize but saying I didn’t do it first has never been a convincing argument and trust me I’ve been trying since grade school much to the ire of the nuns at my school.

 

[Edward_H]

What’s it mean for a society to have a little dust up over someone “feeling alienated”.

God bless us, and save us.

Hardy up.

 

[stlcatholic86]

It is all fine and good to theorize about admitting openly gay male students to a Parochial School. However, where is it written that a gay student is entitled to go to a Parochial School - especially when acting on their homosexual urges is counter to Church teaching. And, if you think gay teenagers do not act on their sexual urges…what planet do you live on?
Such students are a source of disruption and distraction which is counter to the discipline that is part and parcel of the educational environment in such schools.
The faculty can control students only so far. There is still recess periods and the going to and from school where students are largely unsupervised. Like it or not, gay male students are subject to harassment by straight male students, which can lead to other problems. By forbidding admittance, the Bishop has nipped the problem in the bud.

I thought all Gods children were allowed to attend our schools. I didn’t realize we had the right to determine what children should or shouldn’t be entitled to attend. I live on planet Earth, just as you do I presume. I am just saying its presumptuous for us to suggest that all gay teens act on their sexual urges. If you say its not, which it seems clear that is your point then by inference all straight teens act on their sexual urges so allowing straight kids to go to a Catholic school would be promoting premarital sex let alone a prom.

I think it’s quite problematic to think that gay students are source of problems. It seems to me those that would target people based on their sexual orientation are the problem. Plus by not allowing openly gay students that doesn’t nip the problem in the bud as much as it just makes it clear that it is okay to bully those that are different. Plus, what if a student comes out in the middle of a school year, do we kick that student out because of his sexual orientation. It seems like this would be a problematic policy all around. It really just doesn’t seem like the Catholic thing to do either.

 

[waterbrook]

I ve noticed it has been argued that an openly gay couple attending a catholic school Is a cause for scandal. I’ve also noticed it has been claimed that for such a couple to attend a prom is a near occasion for sin. Surely then un married heterosexual couples could be seen as a scandal and heterosexual couples attending a prom could be seen as a near occasion for sin but no one has mentioned this…I suspect therefore that it is possible that there the problem for people Is that this couple is gay, not that they are doing something wrong.

 

[PetrusRomanus]

So it is perfectly reasonable for a Bishop to not allow openly gay students to attend a Catholic school?

Yes.

 

[Edward_H]

I thought all Gods children were allowed to attend our schools. I didn’t realize we had the right to determine what children should or shouldn’t be entitled to attend. I live on planet Earth, just as you do I presume. I am just saying its presumptuous for us to suggest that all gay teens act on their sexual urges. If you say its not, which it seems clear that is your point then by inference all straight teens act on their sexual urges so allowing straight kids to go to a Catholic school would be promoting premarital sex let alone a prom.

I think it’s quite problematic to think that gay students are source of problems. It seems to me those that would target people based on their sexual orientation are the problem. Plus by not allowing openly gay students that doesn’t nip the problem in the bud as much as it just makes it clear that it is okay to bully those that are different. Plus, what if a student comes out in the middle of a school year, do we kick that student out because of his sexual orientation. It seems like this would be a problematic policy all around. It really just doesn’t seem like the Catholic thing to do either.

It’s actually not this. It’s that owing to a lack of formation, some people are too easily offended, too much interior complaint spilling out and taking up society’s mental “oxygen.”

Some people are always, and increasingly more easily, offended…and they demand redress…and society actually goes along with it.

 

[fix]

Hardly a synonymous claim. It’s too bad these students didn’t attend the Jesuit High School where the Priest allowed a gay couple to attend, saying all our brothers our welcome. Quite a different message and the loving message of Christ that sends.

That is a scandal and encourages sin.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Yes.

So then should openly gay people also be banned from attending a specific parish? Where do we draw the line? I suppose the banner on my parish door which reads “All Are Welcome” should come with a disclaimer.

 

[stlcatholic86]

That is a scandal and encourages sin.

Nah, it’s demonstrating the love compassion of the church. Allowing gay teens to attend doesn’t violate any church teaching at least none that I can find. Nor does it condone the act of homosexuality. Instead, it says to me we are all brothers and sisters in faith and we are to show each other love and compassion. It’s not as though the Priest is saying here is a bottle of lube go use the rectory and have fun.

 

[clem456]

My apologizes all were raised Catholic. **Hitler had pretty high esteem for the church **even though he disagreed with its theology. Mussolini was indeed an atheist and took after his father. Oh since we ought not lie in this forum I think it ought to be clear that Franco was supported by the communists in the 1930s. Though I’m glad you agree with my point that socialism is exercised by both spectrums of the political line (ie. liberals and conservatives),

God help us.

 

[Edward_H]

So then should openly gay people also be banned from attending a specific parish? Where do we draw the line? I suppose the banner on my parish door which reads “All Are Welcome” should come with a disclaimer.

Well to be clear, for whatever it’s worth… “All are welcome” is a Marty Haugen lyric. Is it scriptural? Jesus used a lot of “narrow road” “sin no more” type language, no? Marty doesn’t seem to use those verses for some reason. Not sure.

And I think there may be a difference between the formational/educational purpose of a school for children, and worshipping/adorational/sacramental purpose of the Holy Mass for adults and children.

 

[Edward_H]

Nah, it’s demonstrating the love compassion of the church. Allowing gay teens to attend doesn’t violate any church teaching at least none that I can find. Nor does it condone the act of homosexuality. Instead, it says to me we are all brothers and sisters in faith and we are to show each other love and compassion. It’s not as though the Priest is saying here is a bottle of lube go use the rectory and have fun.

Isn’t it more compassionate to help someone pursue their greatest good, than to make them “feel welcomed”. Are transitory feelings more important than divine unity with God?

 

[ccmnxc]

I ve noticed it has been argued that an openly gay couple attending a catholic school Is a cause for scandal. I’ve also noticed it has been claimed that for such a couple to attend a prom is a near occasion for sin. Surely then un married heterosexual couples could be seen as a scandal and heterosexual couples attending a prom could be seen as a near occasion for sin but no one has mentioned this…I suspect therefore that it is possible that there the problem for people Is that this couple is gay, not that they are doing something wrong.

I don’t follow. An unmarried heterosexual couple that is in a dating relationship seems both fine and normal on its face. First point is that dating is a step that leads to marriage. The Church doesn’t see dating as wrong. Furthermore, while heterosexual relationships are seen as valid by the Church, romantic homosexual relationships are not. Those two types of relationships are in two completely different ballparks. Now, unchaste heterosexual relationships are sinful as well, but heterosexual relationships aren’t seen as inherently wrong. Homosexual relationships, on the other hand, can never be seen as valid.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Well to be clear, for whatever it’s worth… “All are welcome” is a Marty Haugen lyric. Is it scriptural? Jesus used a lot of “narrow road” “sin no more” type language, no? Marty doesn’t seem to use those verses for some reason. Not sure.

And I think there may be a difference between the formational/educational purpose of a school for children, and worshipping/adorational/sacramental purpose of the Holy Mass for adults and children.

True he did use some of that language or at least what is attributed to him. However, he did speak of love, love thy enemies, love the sinner not the sin no? It seems to me the church would better spread its message if it wasn’t as quick to judge. It seems to me the duty of a priest is to be a pastoral minister to the needs of his congregation and put the flock on the path to Gods love. Yet when you start out by a position of judgement it is human nature to go on the defense and its harder to get the message through.

I think people think when I say the church should be more welcoming they think I mean the church should just accept everyones opinions and not question anything. That is not what I mean. While I may hope the church personally will revisit the question of homosexuality, I grant that it will likely never happen in my lifetime, maybe not ever. Instead I mean they should welcome everyone as Gods children and address concerns as they arise and when the time is right. Instead of pushing people away from the church and often away from God.

As to your division between Catholic school and Mass I am not entirely clear as to what your point is. Could you please clarify?

 

[Edward_H]

True he did use some of that language or at least what is attributed to him. However, he did speak of love, love thy enemies, love the sinner not the sin no? It seems to me the church would better spread its message if it wasn’t as quick to judge. It seems to me the duty of a priest is to be a pastoral minister to the needs of his congregation and put the flock on the path to Gods love. Yet when you start out by a position of judgement it is human nature to go on the defense and its harder to get the message through.

I think people think when I say the church should be more welcoming they think I mean the church should just accept everyones opinions and not question anything. That is not what I mean. While I may hope the church personally will revisit the question of homosexuality, I grant that it will likely never happen in my lifetime, maybe not ever. Instead I mean they should welcome everyone as Gods children and address concerns as they arise and when the time is right. Instead of pushing people away from the church and often away from God.

As to your division between Catholic school and Mass I am not entirely clear as to what your point is. Could you please clarify?

Be careful with the “no judgment” language…it leads many to form false ideas. Final judgment is God’s business. Living the life well with God and His Church on earth is ours to help each other do.

Similarly “love” has been defined down too by our society…truly in a diabolical way.

To love means to pursue someone else’s greatest good, which is Beatitude. Divine union on earth and in heaven. You can’t have this if you are willfully going against the will of God.

Love isn’t a feeling. Love really when you think about it…is the work one is willing to do INSIDE OF THEMSELVES to do the will of God. It’s all the internal “projects” we should or must take on to align our will to His. Working on our patience, our generosity, our tiredness, pushing away our complaints, stopping our unkind words…or thoughts!..it may mean putting our desires under control of the will as an act of love for God. It may going against our grain of laziness, sensuality, vanity, pride.

That’s the grander understanding of love that the Catholic Church teaches…or should teach with more constancy and less mumblihood.

 

[Corki]

I can’t find a link that the Bishop didn’t allow openly gay people to attend, but if that’s true do we as Catholics not see a problem with this?

At a Catholic school, if the two were a “couple” then yes, Catholics should see a problem with this being allowed - not a problem with the Bishop prohibiting this behavior.

 

[PetrusRomanus]

So then should openly gay people also be banned from attending a specific parish? Where do we draw the line? I suppose the banner on my parish door which reads “All Are Welcome” should come with a disclaimer.

Openly gay people certainly arent allowed to receive the Eucharist. Do you have a problem with that too?

 

[Corki]

Well it smacks in the face of the message that “all are welcome” and two was this a prom? The manner in which I read this was that they weren’t allowed in the school. Second homosexuality is not a sin in the Catholic church, homosexual acts are. Does one consider attending a school prom and dancing as a “homosexual” act?

Actually, it’s homosexual behaviors that are sinful - not just sex acts. For two men or two women to attend an even as a “couple” to dance and do other things as a couple is just as much against Catholic teaching. Not as gravely sinful as homosexual sex acts but still inappropriate - especially in a Catholic setting.