Students try to banish Catholic chaplain from campus for anti-gay stance

[Dakota_Roberts]

Though we use different words to describe love, they all share self-gift. The object of the act may differ, but the nature is the same, self donation.

If that is your response then you don’t know what those words mean.

 

[90Domer]

What, exactly, is scandal?

Scandal, as the RCC refers to it, is the practice of allowing a potential sinful practice or action to take place thus causing other faithful Catholics to think the sinful practice is OK.

For instance, my in-laws openly support a very dissident Catholic-in-name-only SSA group. They are also very active members of their parish, serving as Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist, lectors and fundraisers. Their open reception and distribution of the Holy Eucharist brings scandal to the congregation because it falsely allows the congregation to think, “Oh, I guess SSA is OK and approved by the Church because I see so and so taking and distributing communion.” Now, the pastor also plays a role because of his approval of them serving in these visible volunteer roles.

I hope this helps. And others, please add if need be.

 

[90Domer]

What, exactly, is it? By your definition a billion different things could be “scandal.”

I hope my definition and example were a little more helpful.

 

[seakelp]

I hope my definition and example were a little more helpful.

It, and fix’s quotes from the CC, were very helpful, thank you both!

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Scandal, as the RCC refers to it, is the practice of allowing a potential sinful practice or action to take place thus causing other faithful Catholics to think the sinful practice is OK.

For instance, my in-laws openly support a very dissident Catholic-in-name-only SSA group. They are also very active members of their parish, serving as Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist, lectors and fundraisers. Their open reception and distribution of the Holy Eucharist brings scandal to the congregation because it falsely allows the congregation to think, “Oh, I guess SSA is OK and approved by the Church because I see so and so taking and distributing communion.” Now, the pastor also plays a role because of his approval of them serving in these visible volunteer roles.

I hope this helps. And others, please add if need be.

If you are talking about Dignity then you need to inform the parish they serve at that they are supporting heresy.

 

[90Domer]

You and I choose to live in sin every day. Everyone here does. Every person.

And we all try to be less sinful - and we try because our parents, our teachers, and our friends taught us to love God. But kids aren’t going to magically learn that after you kick them out of a Catholic school!

That’s what I seriously don’t get about everyone who thinks we should exclude a particular kind or type of sinner. We all sin, each one of us. Each of us persists in our sinfulness. How am I any better or more deserving of the love of God or the care of the community than a person who engages in homosexual acts?

I’m not! Neither are you. And we should do our best to help those who need our help the most!

I think what you are forgetting is that the sin of SSA is a very visible sin. Most people do not, for want of better words, flaunt their sinfulness. For instance, you do not see couples cheating on their spouse calling in to radio shows, holding demonstrations or decrying the Church when they cheat. It is mostly kept private. Sadly, this sin in being dragged into every area of society and played out to be a good and affirming thing. I honestly don’t see too many posts affirming cheating on your spouse and affirming that it is a good and wonderful thing to be celebrated. People call it what it is–a sin. With SSA, that is just not happening and when it does, we are called bigots.

 

[stlcatholic86]

I think what you are forgetting is that the sin of SSA is a very visible sin. Most people do not, for want of better words, flaunt their sinfulness. For instance, you do not see couples cheating on their spouse calling in to radio shows, holding demonstrations or decrying the Church when they cheat. It is mostly kept private. Sadly, this sin in being dragged into every area of society and played out to be a good and affirming thing. I honestly don’t see too many posts affirming cheating on your spouse and affirming that it is a good and wonderful thing to be celebrated. People call it what it is–a sin. With SSA, that is just not happening and when it does, we are called bigots.

There are many people myself included that it is not a mortal sin or a sin at all for that matter.

 

[90Domer]

If you are talking about Dignity then you need to inform the parish they serve at that they are supporting heresy.

Not Dignity but Fortunate Families–Google if need be. We have already done that as have other parishioners, but when you have a priest and (thank goodness now retired) bishop that affirms SSA, no action gets taken.

It has literally divided our family in half–the most sad and tragic thing you can ever experience.

 

[seakelp]

I think what you are forgetting is that the sin of SSA is a very visible sin. Most people do not, for want of better words, flaunt their sinfulness. For instance, you do not see couples cheating on their spouse calling in to radio shows, holding demonstrations or decrying the Church when they cheat. It is mostly kept private. Sadly, this sin in being dragged into every area of society and played out to be a good and affirming thing. I honestly don’t see too many posts affirming cheating on your spouse and affirming that it is a good and wonderful thing to be celebrated. People call it what it is–a sin. With SSA, that is just not happening and when it does, we are called bigots.

Even if I agreed with these points, I fail to see how this translates into, “Let’s exclude homosexuals in order to teach them a lesson.”

 

[90Domer]

There are many people myself included that it is not a mortal sin or a sin at all for that matter.

Well, that is your opinion and your are certainly entitled. But I will tell you as I tell others. Enough priests have told me that this is a sin and such actions are scandal. Personally, I want to get to Heaven–badly. I am not willing to risk my soul doing the wrong thing. If I erred conservatively, so be it. But at least I erred in the right direction. My choice.

 

[90Domer]

Even if I agreed with these points, I fail to see how this translates into, “Let’s exclude homosexuals in order to teach them a lesson.”

There is nothing wrong in trying to prevent someone from sinning. Heck, if a woman was walking up to an abortion clinic, I would beg her not to abort. I would even offer to give her financial assistance and raise her child. As you see it, I am trying to exclude her from the abortion clinic.

I fear you are using loaded words which are often fed by SSA apologists who want to affirm the sinfulness of SSA individuals. I have had all this junk thrown at me from the Dignity type folks and just do not buy into it. If you think I am a bigot, so be it. Personally, I think I am dong God’s work and showing love in the agape sense and not the Eros sense.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I think what you are forgetting is that the sin of SSA is a very visible sin. Most people do not, for want of better words, flaunt their sinfulness. For instance, you do not see couples cheating on their spouse calling in to radio shows, holding demonstrations or decrying the Church when they cheat. It is mostly kept private. Sadly, this sin in being dragged into every area of society and played out to be a good and affirming thing. I honestly don’t see too many posts affirming cheating on your spouse and affirming that it is a good and wonderful thing to be celebrated. People call it what it is–a sin. With SSA, that is just not happening and when it does, we are called bigots.

People did that for abortion.

Gay relationships and infidelity are incomparable in that one is bilateral and the other is unilateral.

SSA is not inherently a sin.

Not Dignity but Fortunate Families–Google if need be. We have already done that as have other parishioners, but when you have a priest and (thank goodness now retired) bishop that affirms SSA, no action gets taken.

It has literally divided our family in half–the most sad and tragic thing you can ever experience.

If the priest does nothing then you need to contact the bishop’s office.

 

[Stephanie_Pauls]

I think what you are forgetting is that the sin of SSA is a very visible sin. Most people do not, for want of better words, flaunt their sinfulness. For instance, you do not see couples cheating on their spouse calling in to radio shows, holding demonstrations or decrying the Church when they cheat. It is mostly kept private. Sadly, this sin in being dragged into every area of society and played out to be a good and affirming thing. I honestly don’t see too many posts affirming cheating on your spouse and affirming that it is a good and wonderful thing to be celebrated. People call it what it is–a sin. With SSA, that is just not happening and when it does, we are called bigots.

SSA is not a sin in of it’s self. Acting on it is! Those who are homosexual the majority of them do not see it as a sin. Those of a social libertarian mindset see if as a victemless crime.

 

[seakelp]

There is nothing wrong in trying to prevent someone from sinning. Heck, if a woman was walking up to an abortion clinic, I would beg her not to abort. I would even offer to give her financial assistance and raise her child. As you see it, I am trying to exclude her from the abortion clinic.

I fear you are using loaded words which are often fed by SSA apologists who want to affirm the sinfulness of SSA individuals. I have had all this junk thrown at me from the Dignity type folks and just do not buy into it. If you think I am a bigot, so be it. Personally, I think I am dong God’s work and showing love in the agape sense and not the Eros sense.

Well, I’m glad that we can at least agree to disagree.

 

[90Domer]

People did that for abortion.

Gay relationships and infidelity are incomparable in that one is bilateral and the other is unilateral.

**Understood, but I was trying to give him the best example I could think of.
**
SSA is not inherently a sin.

**I know this too. **

If the priest does nothing then you need to contact the bishop’s office.

I did…and the very liberal ex-bishop (now retired) did squat as well. Heck, he was a classmate of my FIL’s in college. Just for kicks, read www.cleansingfiredor.com.

 

[90Domer]

SSA is not a sin in of it’s self. Acting on it is! Those who are homosexual the majority of them do not see it as a sin. Those of a social libertarian mindset see if as a victemless crime.

I do know this, but I was trying to give an example of how SSA inclined sins are different from other sins. I don’t see Pride Parades for cheating husbands. And I know the two are not the same! Please, I’m trying my best here to convey a point.

 

[SuperLuigi]

news.yahoo.com/students-try-banish-catholic-chaplain-campus-anti-gay-122022298.html

The very nerve of a priest counseling people who come to him about their homosexual acts being told chastity the answer. Plus, he’s anti-abortion. The horror, the horror!

Progressivism 101: ban what disagrees with you.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I think what you are forgetting is that the sin of SSA is a very visible sin. Most people do not, for want of better words, flaunt their sinfulness. For instance, you do not see couples cheating on their spouse calling in to radio shows, holding demonstrations or decrying the Church when they cheat. It is mostly kept private. Sadly, this sin in being dragged into every area of society and played out to be a good and affirming thing. I honestly don’t see too many posts affirming cheating on your spouse and affirming that it is a good and wonderful thing to be celebrated. People call it what it is–a sin. With SSA, that is just not happening and when it does, we are called bigots.

That’s because those who support so-called “gay marriage” do so for emotional, not logical reasons.

Even if they tell you otherwise, when you get to the bottom of it, I think you’ll find either personal selfishness or invincible ignorance on the Church’s teaching.

 

[90Domer]

That’s because those who support so-called “gay marriage” do so for emotional, not logical reasons.

Even if they tell you otherwise, when you get to the bottom of it, I think you’ll find either personal selfishness or invincible ignorance on the Church’s teaching.

Absolutely correct. In-laws were two of the biggest sentimentalists you could find (well, MIL still is, FIL is deceased). That’s why they hated us…we were too logical.

 

[aspirant]

Key word is openly gay. That means they live the lifestyle aka engage in the behavior.

As others have mentioned, this is not what “openly gay” means. It refers to people whose attraction to people of the same sex is publicly known, regardless whether they engage in sexual acts with people of the same sex. Public acknowledgment of this attraction no more requires sexual expression than does public acknowledgment that one is attracted to people of the opposite sex. In the words of the USCCB, “Do not presume that all homosexual persons are sexually active.” There are lots of openly gay Catholics and other Christians who are celibate and, like many straight Catholics, strive to live chastely. Eve Tushnet is a Catholic example, Wes Hill a Protestant example. I have friends who are openly gay, faithfully Catholic, and celibate. They’re a great blessing in my life.

However, where is it written that a gay student is entitled to go to a Parochial School

Reading Church teaching suggests that basic human rights may only be abridged or restricted in cases where public conduct endangering the common good may require it. The CDF has written, for example:
"Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity. Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc… {These rights} can be legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct… it is accepted that the state may restrict the exercise of rights, for example, in the case of contagious or mentally ill persons, in order to protect the common good.

It does not appear that merely knowing a person’s sexual orientation would be adequate grounds for barring school attendance. Such an action would, I think, be reductionist in a way discouraged by the Church:
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.

I could certainly understand a school disciplining students for engaging in sexual activity, at least on school property or at school events. (I would expect the school to have a policy like that for all students, regardless of sexual orientation. It seems probable to me, anyway, that a school’s standards of moral conduct would apply to both heterosexual and homosexual students.)

Like it or not, gay male students are subject to harassment by straight male students, which can lead to other problems.

In a scenario such as this, it is the straight male students who should be corrected and disciplined. This seems the course of action most consistent with Church teaching:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

Moral conscience requires that, in every occasion, Christians give witness to the whole moral truth, which is contradicted both by approval of homosexual acts and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons.

U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops:

We call on all Christians and citizens of good will to confront their own fears about homosexuality and to curb the humor and discrimination that offend homosexual persons. We understand that having a homosexual orientation brings with it enough anxiety, pain and issues related to self-acceptance without society bringing additional prejudicial treatment.