Students try to banish Catholic chaplain from campus for anti-gay stance

[fix]

You may notice that 99.9% of the threads started on this forum to discuss homosexuality aren’t started by the homosexual people. That’s a big clue as to just who it is that’s “constantly” talking about it.

But, they are in response to the cultural tidal wave of non stop homosexual issues 24/7.

 

[PetrusRomanus]

For starters, a sexual orientation isn’t simply a sum of temptations. And why does coming out have to be some public announcement? I don’t think anyone is arguing for standing on a streetcorner with a blowhorn and a sign. Is telling my family about my sexual orientation coming out? I’d say it is. And like I said, there are times when it is necessary.

Am I the only one that thinks it would be great to have faithful homosexual Catholics as living examples of Church teaching being lived?

Gay isnt an orientation though.

So should i come out and tell my family that I am inclined toward fornication? By the way Im a single heterosexual male, they always ask when Ill be married, let me set you up etc too. I manage to be honest and not reveal to them my.temptations all at the same time.

Jusg so you know, being a single celibate heterosexual male has its stigmas too, like loser, unsuccessful, weird, boring, etc

 

[stlcatholic86]

There is no reason to be out.

I do not go around, parading myself as a non practicing fornicator, a non practicing adulterer, or a non practicing masturbator. So a person saying theyre a non practicing “openly gay” person makes about as much sense.

If you do not make your lifestyle about stealing, your are not a thief, despite your inclination to steal.

If you do not make your lifestyle about gay acts, you are not a gay person, despite your inclination to the same sex.

This is a ridiculous argument. It’s basically the logically equivalent of if I say it isn’t true then it isn’t true. One that is a major logical fallacy in argumentation and two just fails all common sense.

Plus I think people misconstrue being open about being gay as the equivalent of rubbing it in people’s faces. It’s just not true. My identity is not about being gay but I get sick of people (ie. those denying gay rights) trying to tell me all the time that it is. So then please tell me how you aren’t rubbing your sexuality in my face. Holding handing with your significant other, talking about your wife/husband, your children or grandchildren. When you announce that you family is expecting a child or you put pictures of your family in your office. Yet when somebody asks me why I don’t have a girlfriend and I respond that I am gay this is somehow rubbing my sexuality in your face? Ridiculous! I don’t know of any gay person that is like my name is such and such and I am a raging homosexual. I don’t deny they exist, but they sure aren’t as numerous as people here seem to assume. Most gay are just normal people that want the same rights you do ie. not to be fired from there job, the right not to be subject to hate crimes, the right to marry the person the love.

 

[Kolbe300]

What is talked about here is a response to what is started by 99.9%of homosexuals in the media and in the world, which is quite frequently.

But, they are in response to the cultural tidal wave of non stop homosexual issues 24/7.

There’s no doubt about that. The forum is going to be a reflection of what’s being shown in the media. But we drive the media. Look at this forum. Here is a group of people who seem unanimously tired of hearing about gay issues while simultaneously starting threads every hour about gay issues. We decide the media’s appetite. Gay or straight, it doesn’t matter. They are going to talk about what we are talking about.

Gay isnt an orientation though.

For a lot of people, the word “gay” is a description of their orientation. You don’t have to agree with it, but it’s true. Because of that, we need to be careful on what we believe those who call themselves gay may be doing in their private lives. There’s a really good chance we’re wrong.

So should i come out and tell my family that I am inclined toward fornication?

I don’t know why you would need to since they probably already know that. You’re human.

I manage to be honest and not reveal to them my.temptations all at the same time.

Right. Everyone has temptations, so there’s no need to declare that. A sexuality isn’t a temptation though. And most people probably believe you’re heterosexual. Which comes in really handy if you’re heterosexual.

Jusg so you know, being a single celibate heterosexual male has its stigmas too, like loser, unsuccessful, weird, boring, etc

Very true, unfortunately.

 

[Kolbe300]

Plus I think people misconstrue being open about being gay as the equivalent of rubbing it in people’s faces. It’s just not true. My identity is not about being gay but I get sick of people (ie. those denying gay rights) trying to tell me all the time that it is. So then please tell me how you aren’t rubbing your sexuality in my face. Holding handing with your significant other, talking about your wife/husband, your children or grandchildren. When you announce that you family is expecting a child or you put pictures of your family in your office. Yet when somebody asks me why I don’t have a girlfriend and I respond that I am gay this is somehow rubbing my sexuality in your face? Ridiculous! I don’t know of any gay person that is like my name is such and such and I am a raging homosexual. I don’t deny they exist, but they sure aren’t as numerous as people here seem to assume.

I Agree!!!

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Your use of the encyclical actually undercuts your point.

Did you actually read what you inserted from the encyclical? “Greek words” and then he goes on and relates each GREEK concept to the CHRISTian example of love.

Did Jesus not constantly self-donate to His apostles?

“… The tendency to avoid the word eros, together with the new vision of love expressed through the word agape, clearly point to something new and distinct about the Christian understanding of love…”.

Did you read the encyclical? The entire encyclical is on love.

Actually, there are a lot of reasons to be out, even for a homosexual person who isn’t sexually active. Here are a couple:

1 - a desire to be honest
2 - to participate in a conversation about sexuality honestly
3- to answer the question, “Why aren’t you dating?”
4 - to answer the statement, “I’ve got a friend I want to set you up with.”
5 - So you can get appropriate help in spiritual direction and counseling.
6 - So you can stand up to people who make crude jokes without realizing just who it is they are offending.

Those are just a few.

7 - For a chaste gay Catholic to have a position of authority when talking to LGBT people about what God and the Church want them to do and the feasibility of it.

Starting with number one, does that mean I have to “come out” and tell everyone constantly that I have inclinations to lust, anger, masturbation, stealing, over eating, being lazy?

And since when is it “dishonest” to not make public our temptations?

Those are normal things to be tempted by.

There is a difference between being out and telling the whole damn world with a megaphone.

You may notice that 99.9% of the threads started on this forum to discuss homosexuality aren’t started by the homosexual people. That’s a big clue as to just who it is that’s “constantly” talking about it.

I’m pretty sure it is less than 99.9% (1/1000), but a cursory look shows it to be higher than 96% (1/25) with at least 5% in the last six months being started by Coptic Christian

 

[Kolbe300]

7 - For a chaste gay Catholic to have a position of authority when talking to LGBT people about what God and the Church want them to do and the feasibility of it.

This should have been number one because it is by far the most important reason. Thank you for adding it!

There is a difference between being out and telling the hole damn world with a megaphone.

Exactly.

 

[fix]

There’s no doubt about that. The forum is going to be a reflection of what’s being shown in the media. But we drive the media. Look at this forum. Here is a group of people who seem unanimously tired of hearing about gay issues while simultaneously starting threads every hour about gay issues. We decide the media’s appetite. Gay or straight, it doesn’t matter. They are going to talk about what we are talking about.

People will continue to comment on it because the impact is so large and invasive. You cannot blame the threads and commenters when they are simply reacting to a non stop assault.

 

[adrift]

It is shared by the people you quoted, however.

Read again

Your statement was that I was wrong in defining it as

Openly homosexual of course means sexually active. Otherwise it wouldn’t be openly.

You said

This is incorrect. “Open” refers to the public knowledge of a person’s sexual orientation.

Now do the quotes I gave support that your view is shared by them?
No they aren’t saying they know because they were told but how they act they “might kiss in public” as opposed to being in the closet by having “secret affairs” they speak of actions being open. In other words, they know because of the homosexual activity they engage in by being openly gay.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Read again

Your statement was that I was wrong in defining it as

You said
Now do the quotes I gave support that your view is shared by them?
No they aren’t saying they know because they were told but how they act they “might kiss in public” as opposed to being in the closet by having “secret affairs” they speak of actions being open. In other words, they know because of the homosexual activity they engage in by being openly gay.

Oh god, two men kissing, burn the queers
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...i_Pietro_e_Paolo_Messina_Museo_Regionale_.jpg

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

This is a ridiculous argument. It’s basically the logically equivalent of if I say it isn’t true then it isn’t true. One that is a major logical fallacy in argumentation and two just fails all common sense.

Plus I think people misconstrue being open about being gay as the equivalent of rubbing it in people’s faces. It’s just not true. My identity is not about being gay but I get sick of people (ie. those denying gay rights) trying to tell me all the time that it is. So then please tell me how you aren’t rubbing your sexuality in my face. Holding handing with your significant other, talking about your wife/husband, your children or grandchildren. When you announce that you family is expecting a child or you put pictures of your family in your office. Yet when somebody asks me why I don’t have a girlfriend and I respond that I am gay this is somehow rubbing my sexuality in your face? Ridiculous! I don’t know of any gay person that is like my name is such and such and I am a raging homosexual. I don’t deny they exist, but they sure aren’t as numerous as people here seem to assume. Most gay are just normal people that want the same rights you do ie. not to be fired from there job, the right not to be subject to hate crimes, the right to marry the person the love.

The ironic thing is that by asking about girlfriends, they are shoving heterosexuality in your face.

There’s no doubt about that. The forum is going to be a reflection of what’s being shown in the media. But we drive the media. Look at this forum. Here is a group of people who seem unanimously tired of hearing about gay issues while simultaneously starting threads every hour about gay issues. We decide the media’s appetite. Gay or straight, it doesn’t matter. They are going to talk about what we are talking about.

For a lot of people, the word “gay” is a description of their orientation. You don’t have to agree with it, but it’s true. Because of that, we need to be careful on what we believe those who call themselves gay may be doing in their private lives. There’s a really good chance we’re wrong.

I don’t know why you would need to since they probably already know that. You’re human.

Right. Everyone has temptations, so there’s no need to declare that. A sexuality isn’t a temptation though. And most people probably believe you’re heterosexual. Which comes in really handy if you’re heterosexual.

Very true, unfortunately.

The everyone being assumed heterosexual works real well for heterosexuals, but other people often don’t like having the wrong labels put on them.

This should have been number one because it is by far the most important reason. Thank you for adding it!

Exactly.

Well it is number “7” so it is not all bad.

Read again

Your statement was that I was wrong in defining it as

You said
Now do the quotes I gave support that your view is shared by them?
No they aren’t saying they know because they were told but how they act they “might kiss in public” as opposed to being in the closet by having “secret affairs” they speak of actions being open. In other words, they know because of the homosexual activity they engage in by being openly gay.

Oh god, two men kissing, burn the queers
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...i_Pietro_e_Paolo_Messina_Museo_Regionale_.jpg

 

[The_Bucket]

Everyone has struggles. Everyone has a tough time with sin. But I think the poster a few pages back who said that this is all about denying sin is exactly right.

stlcatholic86, you don’t just want the same civil rights as everyone else. What you want is for the Church to change its stance on sin. That’s not going to happen. You absolutely should be protected from harassment, bullying, etc. That kind of thing is totally intolerable.

But it’s also intolerable to demand that the Church conform to your will. And honestly, why do you wish to broadcast your proclivities to sin to the rest of the world? Should I, in real life, broadcast “I struggle with pornography” to everyone? The Church should obviously not kick me out nor should it kick out people who struggle with same-sex attraction and wrestle with that sin.

I just don’t sit here and demand that the Church change it’s teaching. That’s really the only difference. I recognize that my fight against pornography is a real one. I recognize it as sin. I’m in a recovery program for it. “Loving porn” is not part of what makes me a beloved child of God anymore than loving homosexual sex or premarital heterosexual sex makes anyone else a beloved child of God. That’s sin.

Propensity towards sin can be a great opportunity to increase our reliance on God. I’ve never been closer to Him now that I’m actually calling for His assistance in waging holy war against my sin.

Right now, where you are, you don’t want love on God’s terms. You want what you perceive to be love on your terms and anything short of that is unacceptable. Anything else is a sign of bigotry or hatred. That’s just not how it works.

You don’t see me here begging for acceptance and saying “well porn is just part of who I am. I really like it and there’s nothing wrong with that. You and the Church need to stop judging me.” Why? Because it’s nonsense!

Love comes on God’s terms, not ours. And God’s love demands our very lives. All of it. Not just the parts that we’re comfortable with. Some people are A-OK following God’s commands when it comes to sexuality, but ask them to part with their time or money to serve the poor, the addicted, the unwanted and they will shy away. Others are great with their service to the sick and destitute but blast the Church for trying to dictate what they do behind closed doors.

God must rule every part of our lives. Yes, we will always fall short of that goal but it must remain our goal. My sin has been grave to be sure, but I won’t deny it to be sin. I will not demand that the Church change it’s teaching so I can feel loved on my terms. I will try to let the Lord change me so I can love Him on His terms.

 

[Edward_H]

Everyone has struggles. Everyone has a tough time with sin. But I think the poster a few pages back who said that this is all about denying sin is exactly right.

stlcatholic86, you don’t just want the same civil rights as everyone else. What you want is for the Church to change its stance on sin. That’s not going to happen. You absolutely should be protected from harassment, bullying, etc. That kind of thing is totally intolerable.

But it’s also intolerable to demand that the Church conform to your will. And honestly, why do you wish to broadcast your proclivities to sin to the rest of the world? Should I, in real life, broadcast “I struggle with pornography” to everyone? The Church should obviously not kick me out nor should it kick out people who struggle with same-sex attraction and wrestle with that sin.

I just don’t sit here and demand that the Church change it’s teaching. That’s really the only difference. I recognize that my fight against pornography is a real one. I recognize it as sin. I’m in a recovery program for it. “Loving porn” is not part of what makes me a beloved child of God anymore than loving homosexual sex or premarital heterosexual sex makes anyone else a beloved child of God. That’s sin.

Propensity towards sin can be a great opportunity to increase our reliance on God. I’ve never been closer to Him now that I’m actually calling for His assistance in waging holy war against my sin.

Right now, where you are, you don’t want love on God’s terms. You want what you perceive to be love on your terms and anything short of that is unacceptable. Anything else is a sign of bigotry or hatred. That’s just not how it works.

You don’t see me here begging for acceptance and saying “well porn is just part of who I am. I really like it and there’s nothing wrong with that. You and the Church need to stop judging me.” Why? Because it’s nonsense!

Love comes on God’s terms, not ours. And God’s love demands our very lives. All of it. Not just the parts that we’re comfortable with. Some people are A-OK following God’s commands when it comes to sexuality, but ask them to part with their time or money to serve the poor, the addicted, the unwanted and they will shy away. Others are great with their service to the sick and destitute but blast the Church for trying to dictate what they do behind closed doors.

God must rule every part of our lives. Yes, we will always fall short of that goal but it must remain our goal. My sin has been grave to be sure, but I won’t deny it to be sin. I will not demand that the Church change it’s teaching so I can feel loved on my terms. I will try to let the Lord change me so I can love Him on His terms.

Well said.

Yet…it’s gone far beyond “bullying”…the original point article above mentioned “feelings of alienation”.

So now the demand is root out any and all “near occasions” of alienation.

We’ve become our feelings.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Everyone has struggles. Everyone has a tough time with sin. But I think the poster a few pages back who said that this is all about denying sin is exactly right.

stlcatholic86, you don’t just want the same civil rights as everyone else. What you want is for the Church to change its stance on sin. That’s not going to happen. You absolutely should be protected from harassment, bullying, etc. That kind of thing is totally intolerable.

But it’s also intolerable to demand that the Church conform to your will. And honestly, why do you wish to broadcast your proclivities to sin to the rest of the world? Should I, in real life, broadcast “I struggle with pornography” to everyone? The Church should obviously not kick me out nor should it kick out people who struggle with same-sex attraction and wrestle with that sin.

I just don’t sit here and demand that the Church change it’s teaching. That’s really the only difference. I recognize that my fight against pornography is a real one. I recognize it as sin. I’m in a recovery program for it. “Loving porn” is not part of what makes me a beloved child of God anymore than loving homosexual sex or premarital heterosexual sex makes anyone else a beloved child of God. That’s sin.

Propensity towards sin can be a great opportunity to increase our reliance on God. I’ve never been closer to Him now that I’m actually calling for His assistance in waging holy war against my sin.

Right now, where you are, you don’t want love on God’s terms. You want what you perceive to be love on your terms and anything short of that is unacceptable. Anything else is a sign of bigotry or hatred. That’s just not how it works.

You don’t see me here begging for acceptance and saying “well porn is just part of who I am. I really like it and there’s nothing wrong with that. You and the Church need to stop judging me.” Why? Because it’s nonsense!

Love comes on God’s terms, not ours. And God’s love demands our very lives. All of it. Not just the parts that we’re comfortable with. Some people are A-OK following God’s commands when it comes to sexuality, but ask them to part with their time or money to serve the poor, the addicted, the unwanted and they will shy away. Others are great with their service to the sick and destitute but blast the Church for trying to dictate what they do behind closed doors.

God must rule every part of our lives. Yes, we will always fall short of that goal but it must remain our goal. My sin has been grave to be sure, but I won’t deny it to be sin. I will not demand that the Church change it’s teaching so I can feel loved on my terms. I will try to let the Lord change me so I can love Him on His terms.

The fact that heterosexuality is broadcast 24/7 and his been since broadcasting and in other ways before that why some people get so fed up with it.

It’s often the myriad of small things that hurt the most.

 

[Edward_H]

The fact that heterosexuality is broadcast 24/7 and his been since broadcasting and in other ways before that why some people get so fed up with it.

It’s often the myriad of small things that hurt the most.

Have you had the misfortune of watching TV lately…if you had to estimate the ratio of hetero/homo based on TV characters (and especially commercials) you’d be so far off the actual population. And some TV shows design characters to be “straddlers”.

And the men in most shows are weak, stupid, full of vices.

No…your point is not only wrong. It’s way wrong. And even if it were closer to being right, it’d still be wrong because to portray human’s sexuality as one of complementary capacities is the overarching natural order.

It’d be like complaining that of the talking characters on TV, too many are human!

 

[stlcatholic86]

Everyone has struggles. Everyone has a tough time with sin. But I think the poster a few pages back who said that this is all about denying sin is exactly right.

stlcatholic86, you don’t just want the same civil rights as everyone else. What you want is for the Church to change its stance on sin. That’s not going to happen. You absolutely should be protected from harassment, bullying, etc. That kind of thing is totally intolerable.

But it’s also intolerable to demand that the Church conform to your will. And honestly, why do you wish to broadcast your proclivities to sin to the rest of the world? Should I, in real life, broadcast “I struggle with pornography” to everyone? The Church should obviously not kick me out nor should it kick out people who struggle with same-sex attraction and wrestle with that sin.

I just don’t sit here and demand that the Church change it’s teaching. That’s really the only difference. I recognize that my fight against pornography is a real one. I recognize it as sin. I’m in a recovery program for it. “Loving porn” is not part of what makes me a beloved child of God anymore than loving homosexual sex or premarital heterosexual sex makes anyone else a beloved child of God. That’s sin.

Propensity towards sin can be a great opportunity to increase our reliance on God. I’ve never been closer to Him now that I’m actually calling for His assistance in waging holy war against my sin.

Right now, where you are, you don’t want love on God’s terms. You want what you perceive to be love on your terms and anything short of that is unacceptable. Anything else is a sign of bigotry or hatred. That’s just not how it works.

You don’t see me here begging for acceptance and saying “well porn is just part of who I am. I really like it and there’s nothing wrong with that. You and the Church need to stop judging me.” Why? Because it’s nonsense!

Love comes on God’s terms, not ours. And God’s love demands our very lives. All of it. Not just the parts that we’re comfortable with. Some people are A-OK following God’s commands when it comes to sexuality, but ask them to part with their time or money to serve the poor, the addicted, the unwanted and they will shy away. Others are great with their service to the sick and destitute but blast the Church for trying to dictate what they do behind closed doors.

God must rule every part of our lives. Yes, we will always fall short of that goal but it must remain our goal. My sin has been grave to be sure, but I won’t deny it to be sin. I will not demand that the Church change it’s teaching so I can feel loved on my terms. I will try to let the Lord change me so I can love Him on His terms.

Actually no I not asking the church to change its stand on sin. I’m simply asking for the right to be civility married by the state. This has no effect on the sacrement of marriage. Now as a Catholic do I pray that the church will see the error of its ways, yes I do. You may think that’s presumptions of me, but there is really only one that can judge the validity of what is or what isn’t sin (I.E. not you).

It’s a heck of a judgment call to tell me I want Gods love on my terms and not his. I believe I am following Gods design as he created me. Therefore I feel I am following Gods love and in communion with him. Ultimately this is a personally journey for each of us in the community of our faith. None of us know if we are in a state of grace in Gods eye until the day we are judged before him.

I don’t get how your issue of pornography equates to my living a homosexual life.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Have you had the misfortune of watching TV lately…if you had to estimate the ratio of hetero/homo based on TV characters (and especially commercials) you’d be so far off the actual population. And some TV shows design characters to be “straddlers”.

And the men in most shows are weak, stupid, full of vices.

No…your point is not only wrong. It’s way wrong. And even if it were closer to being right, it’d still be wrong because to portray human’s sexuality as one of complementary capacities is the overarching natural order.

It’d be like complaining that of the talking characters on TV, too many are human!

I don’t think the poster was talking about TV I think they we’re talking about general population in that one is presumed to be heterosexual.

As for TV the overwhelming amount of characters on TV are heterosexual. There are gay people in real life should they not be portrayed on TV? This is one hell of a ridiculous argument.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Have you had the misfortune of watching TV lately…if you had to estimate the ratio of hetero/homo based on TV characters (and especially commercials) you’d be so far off the actual population. And some TV shows design characters to be “straddlers”.

And the men in most shows are weak, stupid, full of vices.

No…your point is not only wrong. It’s way wrong. And even if it were closer to being right, it’d still be wrong because to portray human’s sexuality as one of complementary capacities is the overarching natural order.

It’d be like complaining that of the talking characters on TV, too many are human!

Truth is I’m not really talking about TV, I’m talking about all over, basically everywhere basically all the time.

 

[Edward_H]

Truth is I’m not really talking about TV, I’m talking about all over, basically everywhere basically all the time.

No. Whether it’s news articles, news stories, talk shows, scanning merely the headlines, campus activities, course descriptions in colleges, movies…it’s not representative of the population, way over sampling of the rainbow.

 

[Edward_H]

I don’t think the poster was talking about TV I think they we’re talking about general population in that one is presumed to be heterosexual.

As for TV the overwhelming amount of characters on TV are heterosexual. There are gay people in real life should they not be portrayed on TV? This is one hell of a ridiculous argument.

As I said…the sampling is way overly populated with homosexual, especially the commercials. Sampling is a wonderful argument.