Students try to banish Catholic chaplain from campus for anti-gay stance

[markeverett49]

. Gay students who are kicked out of their Catholic schools are more likely to be embittered and spiteful towards their faith than anything else. And you think that’s a good thing?

How many people do you know who have been kicked out of Catholic schools for being homosexual persons? I don’t know any. I don’t know that I know OF any, either.

 

[stlcatholic86]

As I said…the sampling is way overly populated with homosexual, especially the commercials. Sampling is a wonderful argument.

Really care to back that up with an independent study or is this just I think there are a lot of gay characters in the media more relative to the population? I mean gay characters in the media is a relatively new phenomenon in modern society regardless.

 

[markeverett49]

No. Whether it’s news articles, news stories, talk shows, scanning merely the headlines, campus activities, course descriptions in colleges, movies…it’s not representative of the population, way over sampling of the rainbow.

I think this is why young people tend to vastly over-estimate the percentage of homosexual persons. Actually, the number of homosexual persons in the US is about the same as the number of Native Americans, yet high school students estimate the percentage at 25 % or more. Some think any person chosen at random is as likely to be “gay” as not.

 

[Edward_H]

Really care to back that up with an independent study or is this just I think there are a lot of gay characters in the media more relative to the population? I mean gay characters in the media is a relatively new phenomenon in modern society regardless.

The onus is on Dakota who made the original unsupported assertion, of course.

 

[Edward_H]

Really care to back that up with an independent study or is this just I think there are a lot of gay characters in the media more relative to the population? I mean gay characters in the media is a relatively new phenomenon in modern society regardless.

Actually it was pretty easy.

Now this may not meet your test of objective “independence”…I mean it’s from GLAAD!

glaad.org/publications/nri2012

It doesn’t meet my test for objectivity…but the numbers are so far in support of my point…I’ll offer this for now.

 

[markeverett49]

Those who are homosexual the majority of them do not see it as a sin. Those of a social libertarian mindset see if as a victemless crime.

This does them no credit. They are misguided in at least two respects. In one, they are doing something wrong. In the other, they rely on their own flawed (-and self-serving) moral sense, which sin disorients. Moral advice from people who think homosexual acts are good acts is like seeking advice on exercise and nutrition from a couch potato.

 

[Edward_H]

I think this is why young people tend to vastly over-estimate the percentage of homosexual persons. Actually, the number of homosexual persons in the US is about the same as the number of Native Americans, yet high school students estimate the percentage at 25 % or more. Some think any person chosen at random is as likely to be “gay” as not.

Excellent points.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Actually it was pretty easy.

Now this may not meet your test of objective “independence”…I mean it’s from GLAAD!

glaad.org/publications/nri2012

It doesn’t meet my test for objectivity…but the numbers are so far in support of my point…I’ll offer this for now.

Actually that study doesn’t mean what you think it does it just means hours of programming on a given network that includes at least on character that identifies as GLBT meaning they could be an extremely minor character and GLAD counts that as acceptance. Nice try though.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Excellent points.

Actually there is really no good way to assess what the actually amount of people that are LGBT people. These studies are fundamentally flawed because they often rely on self reliance and then extrapolate based on those numbers and by guessing on those that are not out.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

The onus is on Dakota who made the original unsupported assertion, of course.

Please define the exact assertion I made and what needs to be proved.

I have never seen any proof that gays are in fact over represented on television overall and so I disagree with that concept.

 

[Edward_H]

Please define the exact assertion I made and what needs to be proved.

I have never seen any proof that gays are in fact over represented on television overall and so I disagree with that concept.

This came from your pen:

The fact that heterosexuality is broadcast 24/7 and his been since broadcasting and in other ways before that why some people get so fed up with it.

So where’s your evidence for your “fact”?

 

[markeverett49]

There is no such thing as a “homosexual person” as if it’s some kind of race, like a black or a white person.

This is true and important. A homosexual orientation cannot be the source of rights. (While we’re at it, no one speaks of civil rights as “black” rights and that is because what was at issue was the rights of citizens, all citizens. There are no “gay” rights.)

 

[Edward_H]

Actually there is really no good way to assess what the actually amount of people that are LGBT people. These studies are fundamentally flawed because they often rely on self reliance and then extrapolate based on those numbers and by guessing on those that are not out.

This is a retreat. You go with what data you can get…you don’t mumbihood your way back to safety.

 

[Francoist]

Actually no I not asking the church to change its stand on sin. I’m simply asking for the right to be civility married by the state. This has no effect on the sacrement of marriage. Now as a Catholic do I pray that the church will see the error of its ways, yes I do. You may think that’s presumptions of me, but there is really only one that can judge the validity of what is or what isn’t sin (I.E. not you).

It’s a heck of a judgment call to tell me I want Gods love on my terms and not his. I believe I am following Gods design as he created me. Therefore I feel I am following Gods love and in communion with him. Ultimately this is a personally journey for each of us in the community of our faith. None of us know if we are in a state of grace in Gods eye until the day we are judged before him.

Do you dare to say that God approves of homosexual acts? That is blasphemy! You know very well that He does not. You say you don’t want the Church to change its stance on sin, and yet you willingly persist in grave sin and have the effrontery to say that your personal will stands over and above the Church! That is heresy.

Jesus Christ is your Savior but He is also your Lord. You must submit to His will. There is no such thing as a conscience that is both well-formed and that disagrees with Jesus Christ!

 

[adrift]

Oh god, two men kissing, burn the queers

You do like making strawmen don’t you.

 

[The_Bucket]

The fact that heterosexuality is broadcast 24/7 and his been since broadcasting and in other ways before that why some people get so fed up with it.

I don’t really understand what that means. It’s like the term “heteronormative.”

Heterosexuality is the normal state. Homosexuality is a disordered state. I don’t really know what else to say on that.

If you mean that the popular media constantly is telling us what it is to be a man or a woman or what sexuality is all about and is wrong… then I totally agree. If you mean that the world is telling you that heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality is disordered… I mean… that’s just accurate.

stlcatholic86:

Actually no I not asking the church to change its stand on sin. I’m simply asking for the right to be civility married by the state. This has no effect on the sacrement of marriage. Now as a Catholic do I pray that the church will see the error of its ways, yes I do. You may think that’s presumptions of me, but there is really only one that can judge the validity of what is or what isn’t sin (I.E. not you).

I’m not the one who makes the call about what is sin. God does, through his Church. What you are saying is that the Church is wrong. So yes, I am correct in that you are denying your sin and demanding that the Church somehow transform sin into virtue. It’s not going to happen.

None of us know if we are in a state of grace in Gods eye until the day we are judged before him.

Here we agree.

I don’t get how your issue of pornography equates to my living a homosexual life.

Because both are grave sin. You are denying the sin and hoping the Church changes its teaching on it. I am admitting my sin and trying to both repent and amend my life. This does not make me better than you. This merely makes me not obstinate in sin in one part of my life. There is a very substantial chance that you are a much better person than I when it comes to matters of generosity with time and treasure or loving your enemies.

The Church does not condemn. It merely reveals to the world the Truth the Lord has revealed.

All of that said, and I do not mean to be uncharitable, but when one says that the Church is wrong that the Church does not have the fullness of the Truth in it and that one will not follow Her instruction, one is saying “I will not serve.”

If the Church is wrong on this matter she may as well be wrong about the divinity of Christ, His redemptive power and the very existence of God. Doctrine is not changeable for a good reason.

 

[markeverett49]

The only people “totally identifying” someone by their sexuality aren’t the homosexuals. I think people here believe homosexual people identify totally by their sexuality because that is how they identify someone who says they are homosexual. It’s a bad case of projection.

I think this is backwards. I’ve never heard of a heterosexual person say “this is who I am!” Heterosexuals do not think heterosexuality is the most significant fact about them. (It is curious how many homosexaul persons who are anti-essentialist in all other areas insist that there is an essence to homsexuality and what’s more, it is the deepest core of a person’s identity.)

 

[adrift]

I would also add that the Church obliges us to do so at least once a year, .

What the Church obliges is to confess mortal sins once a year.

Can. 989 After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is obliged to confess faithfully his or her **grave sins **at least once a year.

This is incorrect. “Open” refers to the public knowledge of a person’s sexual orientation.

Being openly gay is not the same thing as being open about being gay you are confusing the two.

 

[markeverett49]

Actually that study doesn’t mean what you think it does it just means hours of programming on a given network that includes at least on character that identifies as GLBT meaning they could be an extremely minor character and GLAD counts that as acceptance. Nice try though.

Look at it this way: homosexual persons are about the same in number (maybe less) than Native Americans: who are you more likely to see in network show, a Native American or a homosexual person (-by that I mean one identified as such on the show)?

It’s interesting to contrast this with conservative Christians, who are a far larger portion of the population, but much more likely to be portrayed in a negative light.

 

[Edward_H]

I think this is backwards. I’ve never heard of a heterosexual person say “this is who I am!” Heterosexuals do not think heterosexuality is the most significant fact about them. (It is curious how many homosexaul persons who are anti-essentialist in all other areas insist that there is an essence to homsexuality and what’s more, it is the deepest core of a person’s identity.)

Quite right. The only people identifying themselves based on their sexuality are gay people.

You ask anyone else…what are you…you will get this sort of list

• a man
• a husband
• a father
• a Catholic
• a child of God
• an engineer
• a son
• a Marine
• a priest
• a doc/lawyer/accountant, etc.
• and when the person gets very very tired…simply because they’ve been infected by our overly sexual society will cede finally that they are hetero.