Studies on Prayer

[Faith1960]

Hi All,

A few months ago I joined a Women’s Bible Study, which meets every three weeks. So far it’s been great, wonderful fellowship and I’m learning so much. One problem, though. At the end of our meetings, we pray for people who’ve asked for, or are in need of, prayer. We’ve now decided to continue praying for them during the weeks we aren’t meeting, with the expectation that we’ll be able to see how God has helped the people being prayed for.
The Bible Study has enriched my prayer life, but…

As many of you probably know, the couple years ago the results of a scientific study on prayer for those undergoing heart surgery came out showing that prayer just didn’t work for the patients being prayed for, and the outcome for those being prayed for actually did somewhat worse than those who weren’t prayed for.

Most, if not all of us, have anecdotal stories showing how our prayers have been answered, but what’s bothering me is that this last study was the most comprehensive one of it’s kind and prayer didn’t seem to help those poor people undergoing surgery. Thoughts? Insights? Any new(er) studies?

 

[grannymh]

Hi All,

A few months ago I joined a Women’s Bible Study, which meets every three weeks. So far it’s been great, wonderful fellowship and I’m learning so much. One problem, though. At the end of our meetings, we pray for people who’ve asked for, or are in need of, prayer. We’ve now decided to continue praying for them during the weeks we aren’t meeting, with the expectation that we’ll be able to see how God has helped the people being prayed for.
The Bible Study has enriched my prayer life, but…

As many of you probably know, the couple years ago the results of a scientific study on prayer for those undergoing heart surgery came out showing that prayer just didn’t work for the patients being prayed for, and the outcome for those being prayed for actually did somewhat worse than those who weren’t prayed for.

Most, if not all of us, have anecdotal stories showing how our prayers have been answered, but what’s bothering me is that this last study was the most comprehensive one of it’s kind and prayer didn’t seem to help those poor people undergoing surgery. Thoughts? Insights? Any new(er) studies?

First. Is there anyone who actually read the study which was printed in the American Heart Journal?

Especially interesting about the original in the American Heart Journal, according to Chicago Tribune writer Jeremy Manier, is the accompanying editorial which criticized the study authors for taking "an almost casual approach toward any explanation, stating only that it ‘may have been a chance finding.’ "

When one reads Jeremy Manier’s article, it is obvious that, regardless of what the tabloids say, this study was not comprehensive considering the low number of participants. Furthermore, it appears that the Catholic position on intercessory prayer was ignored.

Thus, in my humble opinion, regarding prayer results, the conclusions of this study would not be valid. They would be considered someone’s guess. Newspaper headlines were inflammatory. And Catholics should ignore it, period.

Blessings,
granny

Please share these websites with family and friends.

 

[Faith1960]

First. Is there anyone who actually read the study which was printed in the American Heart Journal?

Especially interesting about the original in the American Heart Journal, according to Chicago Tribune writer Jeremy Manier, is the accompanying editorial which criticized the study authors for taking "an almost casual approach toward any explanation, stating only that it ‘may have been a chance finding.’ "

When one reads Jeremy Manier’s article, it is obvious that, regardless of what the tabloids say, this study was not comprehensive considering the low number of participants. Furthermore, it appears that the Catholic position on intercessory prayer was ignored.

Thus, in my humble opinion, regarding prayer results, the conclusions of this study would not be valid. They would be considered someone’s guess. Newspaper headlines were inflammatory. And Catholics should ignore it, period.

Blessings,
granny

Please share these websites with family and friends.

I only read the abstract article, I couldn’t access the full text. There were 1802 patients involved with the study. Is that a low number? I thought it was high.

 

[StrawberryJam]

If I were a christian in a prayer group, I would make a list.

First, I would make sure all the things on the list would be in God’s will. This is tricky because you would THINK that it would be in God’s will to do a lot of things but you have no assurance they are. For instance, your aunt may be dying of cancer. You really believe it’s God’s will for her to have a full remmision of cancer. Sounds like something a loving God would want. But, it may not be in his plan. So, it could be contrary to his will. Her suffering and eventual death could be somehow a mysterious greater good in the big picture that we don’t understand now. You prayed. Lots of people prayed.

The next day, your husband files for divorce and takes the kids off to another state and joins a cult. You pray you will get a great lawyer to help you untangle this mess. Lots of people pray. You get a great lawyer and he untangles the mess.

In both cases, there were prayers. In one case, an outcome that was visibly satisfactory. In another, one that you can never understand as satisfactory no matter what you are told afterward by your praying friends to console you.

In other words, no matter who does the testing, how it is done, if intercession is used or not used, if millions took the test or not, you will never ever get any clarity on this.

(Edited)

 

[Answersplease]

One thing is certian, amputees will never be in the will of God to be healed since they never have been so far.

That is the same thing as asking:

Why doesn’t God talk directly to you?

Why doesn’t God show himself?

Why doesn’t God create a huge miracle that will prove beyond a doubt that He is real?

The scriptures say you shall not test The Lord thy God.

The scriptures also say that God will send a powerful delusion on them that they should believe the lie. They have hardened their hearts against the history of The Truth that denies them their sin, and they go after false “beliefs” presented as “truth” because these new false “beliefs” allow them their sin.
In my opinion, it may be that the The Lord God will harden their hearts even more. For they have harmed “The Body of Christ” with their persecution, and may have caused some of “The Children of God” to stumble and fall away, the Lord God is a just God.

And if God had to go to the trouble of proving Himself to you, then why would he want you?
The answer is He would want you anyway, but parents and friends prefer children and friends to whom they don’t have to prove themselves to.

John 20:29

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

And because people didn’t have faith in the Word of God, that He would never leave them nor forsake them, these people will be taken in by supernatural signs and wonders given by demons.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Faith, hope, and charity. Even though the greatest of these is charity, faith and hope are still important.

Faith in the witnesses to The Word of God, and hope in the promises given to The Children of God.

Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Romans 8:24
For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi All,

AAs many of you probably know, the couple years ago the results of a scientific study on prayer for those undergoing heart surgery came out showing that prayer just didn’t work for the patients being prayed for, and the outcome for those being prayed for actually did somewhat worse than those who weren’t prayed for.

?

there is no way science could test such a thing so disregard these reports. God told us to pray for what we need and for the needs of others. nuf said

 

[StrawberryJam]

Answersplease:
Are you thinking you even addressed the fact?

Oh wait, yes- you really did think you answered that problem. slaps head
Silly silly me.

Amputees are a mystery.

Like everything else a christian can not answer, it boils down to about 3 things and mystery is always a get out of jail card in all cases.

 

[Answersplease]

Are you thinking you even addressed the fact?

Oh wait, yes- you really did think you answered that problem. slaps head
Silly silly me.

Amputees are a mystery.

Like everything else a christian can not answer, it boils down to about 3 things and mystery is always a get out of jail card in all cases.

It is good that you admit being silly, it suits you.

I never said anything about adressing any “fact”.

And I never said anything about any “mysteries”.

Believe in your delusion.

None of us are getting any younger.

If the scriptures are right, The Children of God will have life everlasting.

If the atheists are right, there will be nothing for anyone.

Time will tell who is right.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Answersplease:
Facts tell us what is right!

Come up with some and tell us about them.

 

[Answersplease]

Facts tell us what is right!

Come up with some and tell us about them.

You know nothing of facts.

Tell us your facts then.

If the atheists are right, then no person ever came back from the dead to tell you what is on the other side.

You have “Catholic” leanings?

I say you are a subtle troll, not an overt one, just so you can get a hook into the Christians and shake their belief.

 

[Schn]

Please consider, when dismissing scientific research, whether you would be so fast to ignore it if the results were in your favour. I hope that no one on this thread would go to such great levels of hypocrisy. Yet I can easily imagine if another study found the slightest positive correlation, it would be thrust in the faces of all as evidence of the power of prayer.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Please consider, when dismissing scientific research, whether you would be so fast to ignore it if the results were in your favour. I hope that no one on this thread would go to such great levels of hypocrisy. Yet I can easily imagine if another study found the slightest positive correlation, it would be thrust in the faces of all as evidence of the power of prayer.

That is the problem I see. I am willing to change any ideas I hold even if data told us something else is possible. Something else is probable.

I don’t feel dogma should trap me into a corner where I can not even ask or seek ideas, that is why I like the catholic church because it supposedly holds to that premise.

The members individiually, may or may not even realize that.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Answersplease:
I say you are a fundamentalist young earther. Am I correct “Answers please”
Peace

 

[Answersplease]

I say you are a fundamentalist young earther. Am I correct “Answers please”
Peace

You can believe what you want.

And unless you have something interesting to say,

you are not worth my time.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Answersplease:
You are right, I have no data to support claims about a God or an afterlife, neither do you.

But, calling a person a troll is not only a rule violation per your agreement here with caf, but it shows your level of intelligence or lack of.

Trolls don’t post for over 5 months.

Don’t worry, I won’t report you on the violation of your user agreement, but I will ask you to defend your position intelligently.

Anytime you are ready.

 

[Answersplease]

Well now,

you forgot I said “subtle”.

Or did you leave that out on purpose.

 

[Answersplease]

“subtle”