Study: Christian Population Shifts from Europe

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Eudcation level is most important. We can see that most educated muslims have one wife only. Also birth rate is also low compared to un educated muslims. Now a days in Arab countries young generation muslims are more and more educated. We can see monogamy among them. Education will change the living standard of them. They are now concerned about quality in life and more focusing in education of their kids. Anyway we are not worried about growth of Muslims through birth. Also we belive in a culture of life.

Also I would like to tell you one thing. Muslims immigrants in europe or america are not came with a mentality to conquer or islamize the america.All of them came for seeking better employment oppertunity, better living standard and all. It is the key factor that attracting people all over the world to Europe or america. It is religous leaders among them who have political agendas tries to create such feelings among public.

Arab countries depends upon christian immigrant workers from other asian countries such as phlippines, sri lanka, india for skilled labour such as Managers, Engineers, Doctors,Nurses, Office staffs, Mechanics, Teachers , Accountants etc.

Roman catholics (Foriegn immigrant workers) is 10% in saudi arabia. All most all gulf arab countries catholic population ranges from 10% to 12% (All are immigrant workers from asian countries) Catholics now got worshiping freedom in all Gulf Arab countries except saudi. Negotiations with Vatican and Saudi is going on for granting religous freedom to catholics. Limited religious freedom is granted now (for praying in groups at houses). Hope in near future Saudi will also grant religious freedom to Catholics.

Only difference is that in Europe, muslim immigrant workers were granted citizenship , that’s why their population increased in europe. Catholics workers in Arab countries, have temporary work and residence permit.
 
KathleenGee said:
Thanks…good information on educational level of Muslims living in USA…

The only issue I have in that context is the question: Can American Muslims freely leave Islam and go into another religion?

I think if Muslims could understand authentic Christianity, atleast it would help relations…

Catholics, likewise, see numbers coming from births in their own families. But in the USA, we have the most fractured Christianity, and we are seeing conversions coming from Protestants who are learning more about our faith through the internet. Many are taught wrong ideas about Catholicism that takes some people a life time to overcome.
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Yes they can but Muslim leaving his religion and going to any other religion is a phenomenon that is very,very rare. Mostly Muslims leave Islam to become Agnostic/Atheist , specially in the West. Definitely they’ll face an unwelcome attitude from their families on this issue but this is the story all across the board. Many Christians face it too.
I think if Muslims could understand authentic Christianity, atleast it would help relations…
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No sir actually its the other way around. We Muslims do understand Christianity. Many of us read the bible and as Christian scholar Dr William Lane Craig said , many Muslims know bible better than the some ‘Christians’ do. But its Westerners who need to understand authentic Islam…or just understand Islam and don’t believe in propaganda…Westerners are brainwashed into thinking weird things about Islam like ;

1-Muslims want to destroy America.
2-Muslims are encouraged to lie and deceive (Nazis said that same thing about Jews in 1930s)
3- Muslims want to impose Shari’a law on America
4- Muslim women are “oppressed” ( A notion that is as stereotypical as the stereotype of some Eastern conservative cultures that ALL Western girls are “sluts” or “easily available” or “cheap” and “without self respect” …BOTH of these stereotypes are retarded,to be honest)
5-Islam is “imposed” on Muslims etc etc

ALL these stereotypes and negative view of Islam/Muslims are MAINSTREAM in the Western world now. So when anyone tells that Islam gave more right to women in 7th century than any other religion…Westerners don’t even believe that and think that we are “lying” lol…We Muslims don’t have such ignorant and fictitious thoughts about Christianity or Christians…People should “learn” so that we can have better relations (that goes for both…Muslims and Christians)
 
jerry_joseph said:
Eudcation level is most important. We can see that most educated muslims have one wife only. Also birth rate is also low compared to un educated muslims. Now a days in Arab countries young generation muslims are more and more educated. We can see monogamy among them. Education will change the living standard of them. They are now concerned about quality in life and more focusing in education of their kids. Anyway we are not worried about growth of Muslims through birth. Also we belive in a culture of life.

Also I would like to tell you one thing. Muslims immigrants in europe or america are not came with a mentality to conquer or islamize the america.All of them came for seeking better employment oppertunity, better living standard and all. It is the key factor that attracting people all over the world to Europe or america. It is religous leaders among them who have political agendas tries to create such feelings among public.

Arab countries depends upon christian immigrant workers from other asian countries such as phlippines, sri lanka, india for skilled labour such as Managers, Engineers, Doctors,Nurses, Office staffs, Mechanics, Teachers , Accountants etc.

Roman catholics (Foriegn immigrant workers) is 10% in saudi arabia. All most all gulf arab countries catholic population ranges from 10% to 12% (All are immigrant workers from asian countries) Catholics now got worshiping freedom in all Gulf Arab countries except saudi. Negotiations with Vatican and Saudi is going on for granting religous freedom to catholics. Limited religious freedom is granted now (for praying in groups at houses). Hope in near future Saudi will also grant religious freedom to Catholics.

Only difference is that in Europe, muslim immigrant workers were granted citizenship , that’s why their population increased in europe. Catholics workers in Arab countries, have temporary work and residence permit.
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Sir your info says “Syrian Christian” etc …Are you in Syria? Where you from? Sorry if I’m being too personal…I just wanted to ask…
 
jerry_joseph said:
Ok sorry… I became little bit emotional…
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Oh it’s fine man 🙂

I know it’s hard to understand on forums what the other person is trying to same sometimes because you’re not in the same room with them. I’ve had it happen MANY times.

Peace, God bless you 🙂
 
Jerry Joseph…

Understood everything you were saying and it resonated as truthful to me.

Every post I have read on CAF by Muslims explaining to us the Bible are not communicating to us the Bible and its understanding as we know it. I am editing here…and also stating that the Muslims who come on to CAF to explain Scripture and Christ to us are not knowledgeable of the historical reality of Christ, the fact that He chose 12 apostles as witnesses, that Christ is the fulfillment of the Word of God and all prophets and revelations about God.

So…in my experience…I have yet to read the reflections by a Muslim on Sacred Scripture are accurate.

Again – please note that it is from experience here on CAF…and I would say the few remarks I have read elsewhere. I do not participate in any other forum.

I did read articles on ‘NewAgeIslam.com’ that is not New Age as Westerners know of this other pagan practice, but that branch of Islam that wants to return to the time when philosophy was studied, and Arab philosophers also drew on Aristotle and other philosophers and contributing to metaphysics. These Muslims want to return to the use of reason, and also to work for the dignity and freedom of Muslim women.
 
Auzer said:
Westerners are brainwashed into thinking weird things about Islam like ;

1-Muslims want to destroy America.
2-Muslims are encouraged to lie and deceive 3- Muslims want to impose Shari’a law on America
4- Muslim women are “oppressed” ( A notion that is as stereotypical as the stereotype of some Eastern conservative cultures that ALL Western girls are “sluts” or “easily available” or “cheap” and “without self respect” …BOTH of these stereotypes are retarded,to be honest)
5-Islam is “imposed” on Muslims etc etc
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I understand that you may believe these things, but I have lived in a muslim country for years. I have seen all the things you dismiss firsthand, and on a national scale.

Name one muslim country that has a good track record regarding women’s rights and freedom of religion.
 
Calgar said:
I understand that you may believe these things, but I have lived in a muslim country for years. I have seen all the things you dismiss firsthand, and on a national scale.

Name one muslim country that has a good track record regarding women’s rights and freedom of religion.
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Which Muslim country did you live? Please don’t say Saudia because they are NOT Muslim country…they are a “tribal society” which Muslim majority.

Also , what do you mean by “track record” regarding women rights? Malaysia, Turkey, Egypt , Iran (one of the country where women graduation rate is one of the HIGHEST in the world) etc etc are Muslim countries.Are women “oppressed” here? lol…yes unfortunate incidents do happen…not denying that…but well that goes same for everyone…Most number of rapes happen in US…don’t even ask me to quote “domestic violence” facts from the West …and hello?..Its just “West” …What if I start quoting stats from “Central/Southern” Africa which is THE MOST Christian practicing region in the world and Christianity is just thriving there? SO do you want to compare women rights record from “Muslim world” AND “Christian world” ? …Also Islam gave rights to women like right in inheritance in 7th century…did Christianity do that?..Not condemning your religion sir but if you compare Islam and Christianity…Islam gave WAY ,WAY more rights to women than Christianity (as a religion) ever did…remember Islam was revealed in the WORST society ever where women were buried alive just after birth… “Women rights” or human rights etc is not related to religion…Its a social issue that get improve from education and uplifting of the society…So please refrain from playing on same typical stereotypes…I’m not saying that we don’t have problems but the notion that Muslim women are “oppressed” is laughable for anyone who lives in a global world and knows the world around it. Women right is a problem in third world…whether the country is “Christian” , “Hindu” or “Muslim” etc …Pakistan has BETTER women right record than India…I’ve never listened that oh “Hindu” women are oppressed…So again I would respectfully say that stereotyping is not good. 🙂
 
I thought this was a fitting place to remember this story from Mother Theresa (Blessed):
“The spiritual poverty of the Western World is much greater than the physical poverty of our people,” she told me, as the fan whirred above us, trying to alleviate the unbearable heat of that Indian city.
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“You, in the West, have millions of people who suffer such terrible loneliness and emptiness. They feel unloved and unwanted. These people are not hungry in the physical sense, but they are in another way. They know they need something more than money, yet they don’t know what it is.
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“What they are missing, really, is a living relationship with God.”
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Mother Teresa cited the case of a woman who died alone in her home in Australia. Her body lay for weeks before being found. The cats were actually eating her flesh when the body was discovered. “To me, any country which allows a thing like that to happen is the poorest. And people who allow that are committing pure murder. “Our poor people would never allow it.”
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The rest of the article is here It’s beautiful and well worth the read if you have never read it:

Mother Theresa and Poverty
 
Modern secular, economic society along with the sexual revolution that invalidates the sanctity of the human being, the family as foundation of society all have worked to isolate the human being into narcissism and individualism.

We live in a culture of isolation. And it also has its effect on destroying the desire of couples to have children.

Subsequently, it is also my issue that when modern people come to America because of economics…and seeing various cultures refusing to integrate or demonstrate ill will towards our native people…then it makes my country a money making machine where the natives continually have to adjust to newcomers and their demands…and likewise further breaking down natural common unity and values based on Judeo Christianity.

Because of the deliberate attacks on the family, on the human person in our culture, and the marginalization of many Americans who believe in God, we who are Christians are now second class citizens in our country.

My religious values make me the person that I am. But the seculars are forcing me to fragment myself, deny my rights to express who I am.We are on fire for our faith, but the moment we walk out of church doors, then we close down and become silent.

And in time, I think this will all affect our economy and sense of being part of a melting pot. It doesn’t seem like too much, but restoration of our society really is based on the sanctity of human life.

And I only see the Catholic faith as being the only religion promoting the sanctity of human life…and in spite of the loss of faith…the Catholic faith is the one that preaches life, and in the end, its life in Christ will continue.
 
Thanks, Calgar…

I was in college when the big put down on Pope Paul VI came out… some girls invited me to live with them…they had this picture of him saying ‘the pill is a no-no’. They turned out to be promiscuous girls and I moved back in with my friends from high school, an ecumenical group of Protestant and Catholic girls.

‘Those girls’ represent alot of those who have grown old in their process and control public thought of our country. I see so much sexually transmitted diseases…this morning my neighbor came to the house needing a lift in an emergency…he told me about these teens in another nearby town, who started a sex party 20 minutes after the parents left to go out of town…there was someone who found out…and were monitoring them…they got caught and it is on the news…When I was in high school…before June ‘67 and Beatles’ Strawberry Fields Forever came out when we were graduating…most kids saw premarital sex as wrong…taboo…

The effects of contraception are now proving Pope Paul VI was right. And the pill is a powerful drug affecting a woman’s life giving body. We have Natural Family Planning and I practiced it in my child bearing years…if you know yourself it works.

Sen. Rick Santorum is being made out to be extreme because he actually focuses on old fashioned self-restraint and temperance, and opposes contraception. The countries practicing contraception are having low birth rates…Japan is not having enough children to support their elderly…

Does your Southern Baptist Church promote contraception?

Yes, Natural Family Planning is drug free…St. Paul said to set a time aside for married couples on a regular basis to have time just for the Lord…
 
Auzer said:
Sir your info says “Syrian Christian” etc …Are you in Syria? Where you from? Sorry if I’m being too personal…I just wanted to ask…
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Syrian Christians are those who follows syrian liturgy… I am a Roman Catholic and follows East Syrian rite (Syro Malabar) . It is Chaldean church in india. It have liturgical relations to the east syrian (Chaldean) churches of Syria, Iraq, Kurdistan and Iran, as all these churches are established by St Thomas the apostle.
 
Egypt, Syria, and Palestine were once heavily populated and teeming Christian populations that either were eliminated by the sword, persecuted to the point of apostasizing, or decimated through the plagues…

Yes, Christian Syrians go way way back! God bless them who endured persecution, plagues, apostasy and remained firm in Jesus Christ…I have the highest opinion of Middle Eastern Christians who retained their faith for 2,000 years.

Yes, I would affirm that Turkish and Iranian Muslim women are well educated and advance…

To me, however, Saudi Arabia is akin to the Vatican because it is the birth place of Islam, so it is hard for us to separate the tribal customs from the religion…it is like Islam has been unable to help its original people transcend old ways…whereas Catholicism, universal Christianity right away advanced the welfare of women…
 
KathleenGee said:
Jerry Joseph…

Understood everything you were saying and it resonated as truthful to me.

Every post I have read on CAF by Muslims explaining to us the Bible are not communicating to us the Bible and its understanding as we know it. I am editing here…and also stating that the Muslims who come on to CAF to explain Scripture and Christ to us are not knowledgeable of the historical reality of Christ, the fact that He chose 12 apostles as witnesses, that Christ is the fulfillment of the Word of God and all prophets and revelations about God.

So…in my experience…I have yet to read the reflections by a Muslim on Sacred Scripture are accurate.

Again – please note that it is from experience here on CAF…and I would say the few remarks I have read elsewhere. I do not participate in any other forum.

I did read articles on ‘NewAgeIslam.com’ that is not New Age as Westerners know of this other pagan practice, but that branch of Islam that wants to return to the time when philosophy was studied, and Arab philosophers also drew on Aristotle and other philosophers and contributing to metaphysics. These Muslims want to return to the use of reason, and also to work for the dignity and freedom of Muslim women.
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Thank you very much for the information…
 
Yes God is so wonderful…and we are coming to the end of the Celebration of the Season of the Innocent Child…this coming Sunday, Epiphany for Latin rite…

Does Epiphany fall on this coming Sunday in Syrian rite?
 
I just was reviewing NewAgeIslam…it comes out of the Muslilm Asian part of the world…and they are working very hard to restore Islam of reason as well as cooperation with other faiths and cultures.

Another thought came to my mind, Jerry_Joseph and Azur…

You both should check out www.hebrewcatholic.org…these are Jews who are finding their fulfillment in the Catholic Church. They are established now within the Archdiocese of St. Louis, and they have several Hebrew Catholic priests!

They have some series you can study…about Scripture and the New Israel—Christ’s Church and the kingdom within. Sacred Scriptures is given us by the people of Israel, including those of the New Testament, the Jewish apostles of Christ, and their followers. I am especially interested in how our ‘big brothers’, as John Paul II called them, are now experiencing the fullness of their faith as Hebrew Catholics, Hebrew the name for the faithful devout of God. Some say they experience a greater reality as Catholic than before without Christ.
 
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