Studying Buddhism...and I'm really confused.

[Kouyate42]

With my studies in Japanese, I’ve found myself reading an increasing amount on the Buddhist faith, both generally and then the specific Japanese worship.

Things make sense enough to me, but one thing has me confused. The book I am reading, Modern Buddhism: The Path to Wisdom and Compassion, mentions visitations by gods, specifically the gods Indra, Brahma and then some other ‘enlightened beings’ called Ayra Tara and the Dakinis (pl?).

I’m incredibly confused, partially as I had been taught previously that Buddhism didn’t place any importance on deities and did not worship them.

Anyone explain?

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’m incredibly confused, partially as I had been taught previously that Buddhism didn’t place any importance on deities and did not worship them.

Anyone explain?

Westerners generally and nonBuddhists have almost no comprehension of what Buddhism is or that it has a variety of forms that developed. Yet, especially online, they will insist to you, vehemently, that Buddhists “don’t believe in a god.”

Higher education is a thing of great value. Enjoy.

(think of them as saints, if it helps)

 

[kimbari]

I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect an answer in a Romkan Catholic forum.

 

[Sufjon]

I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect an answer in a Romkan Catholic forum.

Actually there are some quite knowledgeable Buddhists on this forum. One named Rossum will probably be along on this thread shortly, and hopefully he can be of some assistance.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Hesychios]

With my studies in Japanese, I’ve found myself reading an increasing amount on the Buddhist faith, both generally and then the specific Japanese worship.

Things make sense enough to me, but one thing has me confused. The book I am reading, Modern Buddhism: The Path to Wisdom and Compassion, mentions visitations by gods, specifically the gods Indra, Brahma and then some other ‘enlightened beings’ called Ayra Tara and the Dakinis (pl?).

I’m incredibly confused, partially as I had been taught previously that Buddhism didn’t place any importance on deities and did not worship them.

Anyone explain?

I could be wrong about this, so let me say I am sorry in advance if that is the case, but it was my understanding that these are not transcendant gods. Nothing is permanent, and these gods will come to their ends as well, coming back as some lower form.

Buddhism had supernatural beings from it’s origins in India among the Hindus, and seems to have adopted the supernatural beings of the Chinese after it became popullar there, so it is a bit syncretistic. I think it arrived in Japan through China so it is unclear to me all the influences Japanese Buddhism might have.

For Buddhists sentient life has several forms or types (six, I think), of which gods and humans are two, demons of some sort would be another and there are demi-gods. Among the Chinese there are hungry ghosts, but I don’t know if that is considered a demon or not.

There is (it seems) no idea of a First Cause, or un-caused Cause or anything like that. In that sense gods are another form of being, they just cannot be seen and they are very long-lived and powerful. To Christians, it would seem that they would be classified as creatures (created beings), but there is no theory about who created them. That whole concept of a creator seems to be absent, they do not envision it.

The goal is to become enlightened in order to escape the endless cycle of rebirth, which means the ultimate goal is annihilation.

Sorry, but that’s all I can say, and I am not really sure about a lot of the details. Someone directly involved may be able to clarify this better for you.

 

[Julia_Mae]

mentions visitations by gods, specifically the gods Indra, Brahma and then some other ‘enlightened beings’ called Ayra Tara and the Dakinis (pl?).

You know, a quick trip to Wikipedia will explain all of this in about 10 minutes.

 

[Michael85]

As far as I know, Buddhists believe in ‘devas’ - divine beings who are higher than human beings but are not almighty. There are also Bodhisattvas and Buddhas, who are enlightened beings. The Bodhisattva Avalotikeshvara, for example, is worshipped by Chinese as Guan Yin, the Goddess of Mercy (although the Daoists have an alternate legend associated with her).

Some of the “gods” worshipped by Buddhists are Hindu “gods”. Here is an image of a Buddhist shrine in Bangkok with a statue of the Hindu “god” Ganesha. This one, also in Bangkok, features a statue of Shiva, another Hindu “god”.

The thing about Buddhism is that it differs according to country or region, sometimes adopting local gods and/or practices. Thai Buddhism is quite different from Chinese Buddhism, for example. This Chinese Buddhist temple looks very different to this Thai Buddhist temple.

I remember discussing Buddhism with some of my students in Malaysia, who were Malaysian Chinese. One of them told me he didn’t know anything about the Eightfold Path - to him, Buddhism consisted of making offerings of joss sticks at temples. However, in Malaysia, there are Chinese temples which have elements of Buddhism, Daoism and Chinese folk religious practices. “Pure” Chinese Buddhist temples are different from these temples. This is yet another example of how Buddhism is absorbed into the culture.

 

[rossum]

With my studies in Japanese, I’ve found myself reading an increasing amount on the Buddhist faith, both generally and then the specific Japanese worship.

Things make sense enough to me, but one thing has me confused. The book I am reading, Modern Buddhism: The Path to Wisdom and Compassion, mentions visitations by gods, specifically the gods Indra, Brahma and then some other ‘enlightened beings’ called Ayra Tara and the Dakinis (pl?).

I’m incredibly confused, partially as I had been taught previously that Buddhism didn’t place any importance on deities and did not worship them.

Anyone explain?

The bit about “didn’t place any importance on deities” is the take home message. Various gods exist. They are part of the world we live in, and like other living beings they need to attain enlightenment in order to escape. They are powerful and long lived, but not immortal. Some of the confusion may arise from the idea that Buddhism is an “atheist religion”. It can be, but usually isn’t – certainly not in the East. The gods do exist, but they have a lesser importance. Bodhisattvas and Buddhas are far more important. You pray to a god if you want something material. The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are only interested in helping you to attain enlightenment, not in your winning the lottery.

The role of gods in Buddhism is somewhat similar to the role of angels in Christianity, they are not really essential, but add a little colour to things. In each country, Buddhism tends to adopt the local gods, with the more important ones being seen as Bodhisattvas. In Japan, the Shinto Amaterasu was identified with the Buddhist Avalokita/Kwannon.

Indra, Brahma, the Taras and the Dakinis are all proto-Hindu Indian deities/demi-gods from the time of the Buddha who are mentioned in the sutras, and have been adapted to fit Chinese or Japanese culture. They are not important. The primary function of the gods in Buddhist sutras is to sit in the audience and applaud at the right places.

rossum

PS Sufjon, Thanks for the publicity. 5 quatloos are on their way.

 

[Kouyate42]

Thank you rossum!

You know, a quick trip to Wikipedia will explain all of this in about 10 minutes.

As an academic, I’m sceptical of Wikipedia for a whole host of reasons, notably because it can be really quite inaccurate.

 

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