Stumbling Block for Protestants?

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Well, for me it is mainly the Apocryphal books. After reading through most of them I do not see how they can be put on the same level as the rest of the Old Testament. Also, a secondary “stumbling block” is the fact that there is no comprehensive official list of infallible statements made by the popes.
 
Honorius said:
Well, for me it is mainly the Apocryphal books. After reading through most of them I do not see how they can be put on the same level as the rest of the Old Testament.
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What is your criterion for discerning whether something is theopneustos?
 
Honorius said:
Well, for me it is mainly the Apocryphal books. After reading through most of them I do not see how they can be put on the same level as the rest of the Old Testament. Also, a secondary “stumbling block” is the fact that there is no comprehensive official list of infallible statements made by the popes.
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there is only two maybe that’s why …

well Jesus quoted the sacred books many times

hope this helps

God bless
 
aragonjohn1 said:
there is only two maybe that’s why …

well Jesus quoted the sacred books many times

hope this helps

God bless
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It would seem to me that using that reasoning, those that are not quoted in the New Testament should not be included in the Old Testament (e.g. Song of Songs, Judges, etc.). Also, according to the footnotes in my NAB-RE Bible, Jude apparently quotes the book of Enoch, so that would have to be included also.
 
Honorius said:
It would seem to me that using that reasoning, those that are not quoted in the New Testament should not be included in the Old Testament (e.g. Song of Songs, Judges, etc.). Also, according to the footnotes in my NAB-RE Bible, Jude apparently quotes the book of Enoch, so that would have to be included also.
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Which is canonical for the Orthodox Tewahedo 🤓
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Why do more Protestants not convert to the Church? Is the Sacrament of Penance (confession) a stumbling block to conversion? We see many Catholics no longer going to confession, and many others converting to Protestantism. Blaise Pascal several hundred years ago commented that he believed Confession was indeed a stumbling block to Protestant conversion.

Your thoughts?
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Charlemagne,

The Stumbling Block for many Protestants and especially here at CAF is Pride and Jealousy which both are serious sins.

Pride: Many were born into their man made church and because of their pride they feel that they have to support it, almost like one supports their favorite NBA NFL MLB team, to the death :eek: and they will not listen to the TRUTH, even though they know that their church came 1500 or 2013 years later than the first Church established by Christ himself, now that should say it all right there, but no cigar. They know the TRUTH and are Not Invincibly Ignorant, again, because of their stubborn pride.

Many Protestants believe if I were born into the protestant faith, thats where Christ, wants me to be, A lie from the devil I tell you.:eek: Martin Luther, was himself a prodigal son of the Church, only Martin Luther never returned HOME. Many protestants who were born into the protestant church and now Have come HOME, to the only Home that ever was, wow I tell you they are on fire, for the love of God and His One Church Christ founded on Rock.

Many of the lead Pharisees, had this type of pride as well, these Pharisees, they knew Jesus Christ rose from the dead, but yet, keeping to the “team” they gave false information that His followers came and took His Body away. The Pharisees Knew the resurrection occurred but their pride getting in the way kept them form asking for forgiveness.

Jealousy: Because just as the many pharisees who were Jealous of Jesus Christ, back in the day, because of His Authority in the way He preached and the miracles He performed, etc… Today many Protestants our jealous and feel the same way as did the pharisees Re: the Catholic Church and It’s Authority, the Popes Infallibility and the Miracle of the daily Eucharist at Mass, etc… etc… etc… Jesus Christ came and preached with Authority and Infallibility and he gave this Power to His Church established two thousand years ago, to Preach with Authority and Infallibility. Amen

Now would Christ, really establish a Church having no Authority or Infallibility? The answer is NO!!!

Having this type of pride and Jealousy toward the Church founded on Rock wether they know it or not, wether they believe it or not is the worse kind of pride and the worse kind of jealousy because it is against Jesus Christ and His Catholic Church.

I’m sure many of you Lutherans, Anglican, well all non catholics have heard yourselves say here at CAF ** I** don’t believe in the Papacy, I don’t believe the Pope has infallibility, ** I **don’t believe I have to go to a priest for confession, I frankly reject the Catholic Churches Teachings, i… i… i… Now with theses so many “i” if this is not pride, then what is?

Now for the many good protestants that are Invincibly Ignorant of the Catholic Churches teachings, these yet are saved by the Catholic Church. 2 Peter 2: 21For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Ufam Tobie
 
JonNC said:
Rather judgemental, wouldn’t you say? :sad_yes:

Jon
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If it is true, it would certainly apply to Catholics as well; certainly the “Pride” part of it which was just demonstrated in the post to which you responded. :sad_yes:
 
SteveVH said:
If it is true, it would certainly apply to Catholics as well; certainly the “Pride” part of it which was just demonstrated in the post to which you responded. :sad_yes:
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I would agree, Steve. I think, for all of us, it is hard to judge the heart of others. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between pride, and heartfelt belief.

Jon
 
ufamtobie said:
Pride: Many were born into their man made church and because of their pride they feel that they have to support it, almost like one supports their favorite NBA NFL MLB team, to the death :eek: and they will not listen to the TRUTH, even though they know that their church came 1500 or 2013 years later than the first Church established by Christ himself, now that should say it all right there, but no cigar. They know the TRUTH and are Not Invincibly Ignorant, again, because of their stubborn pride.

Many Protestants believe if I were born into the protestant faith, thats where Christ, wants me to be, A lie from the devil I tell you.:eek: Martin Luther, was himself a prodigal son of the Church, only Martin Luther never returned HOME. Many protestants who were born into the protestant church and now Have come HOME, to the only Home that ever was, wow I tell you they are on fire, for the love of God and His One Church Christ founded on Rock.

Many of the lead Pharisees, had this type of pride as well, these Pharisees, they knew Jesus Christ rose from the dead, but yet, keeping to the “team” they gave false information that His followers came and took His Body away. The Pharisees Knew the resurrection occurred but their pride getting in the way kept them form asking for forgiveness.
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Because none of these could ever possibly apply to the Roman Catholic Church? No Catholics have ever stayed Catholic because they were born into it? Also you seem to be saying that because your church was “first” it is somehow more valid than mine. That is a fallacy called appeal to tradition. It would be best if you don’t use it.:nope:
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Why do more Protestants not convert to the Church? Is the Sacrament of Penance (confession) a stumbling block to conversion? We see many Catholics no longer going to confession, and many others converting to Protestantism. Blaise Pascal several hundred years ago commented that he believed Confession was indeed a stumbling block to Protestant conversion.

Your thoughts?
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Yes and no. My denomination has group and individual confession. So I don’t have a problem with the practice of confession.

I guess my main problem would be the teaching that I MUST do it for my justification, or to keep myself right with God.
 
JonNC said:
Rather judgemental, wouldn’t you say? :sad_yes:

Jon
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JonNC,

Judgmental? No! Just truths Many Protestants don’t want to come Home because of Pride and then their pride leads to jealousy and then hatred for the only Church Christ founded.

Yes, I added hatred into the mix of truths.

Yes, you should be sad, I am and so is the Catholic Church and above all Jesus Christ.

Ufam Tobie
 
ufamtobie said:
Judgmental? No! Just truths Many Protestants don’t want to come Home because of Pride and then their pride leads to jealousy and then hatred for the only Church Christ founded.
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Anger leads to jealousy, jealousy leads to hate, hate leads to the dar…nevermind, carry on. 🍿
 
JonNC said:
I would agree, Steve. I think, for all of us, it is hard to judge the heart of others. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between pride, and heartfelt belief.

Jon
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JonNC,

You mention above “Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference between pride, and heartfelt belief”. JonNC, so are you battling this within yourself, "to tell the difference between pride and heartfelt belief?

Ufam Tobie
 
Honorius said:
Because none of these could ever possibly apply to the Roman Catholic Church? No Catholics have ever stayed Catholic because they were born into it?

Honorius, Please, many who born into the Catholic Church have left the Church, Martin Luther is one of them, your founding father of all Protestant faithsss:(
Also you seem to be saying that because your church was “first” it is somehow more valid than mine. That is a fallacy called appeal to tradition. It would be best if you don’t use it.:nope:
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Honorius said:
In no way do I think that Jesus loves having various denominations and factions in his Church at each others throats. I would say however that it does not necessarily mean that the Church has failed. Many of the splits were caused two sides not seeing eye on a theological point (sometimes minor ones at that), and most would still keep their place in the Universal Church. For example, would someone believing in transubstantiation vs consubstantiation jeopardize someones salvation?
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What would jeopardize someone’s salvation?

For example, would praying to Mary? What about refusing blood transfusions for your child? What about refusing to believe that the Pauline epistles are theopneustos? What about declaring that Saturday is the day of worship?
On to why I do not join the Roman Catholic Church. I stated that in my previous post that the Apocryphal books accepted as being in the Old Testament by the Roman Catholic Church is the primary reason I do not go and become a member
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As I asked you earlier, what do you believe ought to be the criterion for inclusion into the canon?
PRmerger said:
What is your criterion for discerning whether something is theopneustos?
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