Stupid freakin' blasted insurance companies! (a major rant)

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I agree with you that Communism and Christianity are on different planes, however, the charity-centric approach still relies on everyone giving as they ought to give and being Christlike, and for the majority it just doesn’t happen. Human nature is fallen as a whole, and while some people rise above it and become that kind of “six sigma” (us Catholics would say saintly) person, you can’t count on the majority doing the right thing all of the time.
 
How will the “free market” serve the weak (i.e. those without money) of society? So what’s your suggestion since you are averse to any form of “socialism?” You do need some redistributive mechanism to support the needs of those who cannot support themselves. I do not trust charity to do it since most people are NOT very charitable.
Yes, and insurance is a form of redistribution, quasi-socialized medicine. The idea is that everyone contributes to the pool, and some receive back more than others, because they get sicker or have more emergencies.

The problem, I think, arises, when we begin to treat insurance, including medicare, or government subsidized medical care, as a guarantee to take care of all our needs. That is by nature iimpossible, and even the most generous government health care could not give everyone everything they might need or want. Some needs are too great; and ordinary, everyday needs, such as routine office visits, ought to be taken care of by ourselves.

Another problem is simply the working of the bureaucracy, any bureaucracy. They tend to be inflexible, resulting in situations such as described by the OP.
 
The good news here is that for nearly 2000 years The Church and her saints did just fine without insurance and was able to get many saints into heaven. If one wants guarantees and insurance in life one need to only follow The Church teachings and receive the sacraments and live a virtuous life. Our time here on earth is irrelevant to an eternity with God. Everything else is just gambling and paying for false assurances.

Factoid:
A majority of people spend their entire life savings in medical expenses trying to stay alive for a little longer in their last 2 weeks of life.

Immortality can not be bought. It’s a free gift and all one has to do vote daily where they want to live it - Heaven or Hell.

James
 
The good news here is that for nearly 2000 years The Church and her saints did just fine without insurance and was able to get many saints into heaven. If one wants guarantees and insurance in life one need to only follow The Church teachings and receive the sacraments and live a virtuous life. Our time here on earth is irrelevant to an eternity with God. Everything else is just gambling and paying for false assurances.

Factoid:
A majority of people spend their entire life savings in medical expenses trying to stay alive for a little longer in their last 2 weeks of life.

James
A man I knew for years was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and given six months to live. He had both Medicare and very good health insurance. He went to a highly regarded specialty hospital where he was given massive and torturous treatment, and, lived almost exactly six months from the date of diagnosis. Oh yes, his treatments cost over a million dollars.

I’m not saying expensive treatment doesn’t help some, perhaps many. But sometimes it gets out of hand.

I’m a little surprised the 80 year old man in the OP’s post didn’t go to a nursing home; the “hospitals” that follow on after the allowed stay runs out. He would have had Medicare coverage for (if I’m not mistaken) 90 days at a small fraction of the hospital cost, and in a GOOD nursing home, (and a lot of them aren’t) the treatment would have been exactly the same. Had he become severely acute again, requiring ICU care, he could have gone back to the hospital, and Medicare would have picked up again.
 
A man I knew for years was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and given six months to live. He had both Medicare and very good health insurance. He went to a highly regarded specialty hospital where he was given massive and torturous treatment, and, lived almost exactly six months from the date of diagnosis. Oh yes, his treatments cost over a million dollars.

I’m not saying expensive treatment doesn’t help some, perhaps many. But sometimes it gets out of hand.

I’m a little surprised the 80 year old man in the OP’s post didn’t go to a nursing home; the “hospitals” that follow on after the allowed stay runs out. He would have had Medicare coverage for (if I’m not mistaken) 90 days at a small fraction of the hospital cost, and in a GOOD nursing home, (and a lot of them aren’t) the treatment would have been exactly the same. Had he become severely acute again, requiring ICU care, he could have gone back to the hospital, and Medicare would have picked up again.
This is the real problem with insurance. I lost my own wife not long ago to terminal cancer. The doctors admit that they can’t cure a thing and offer to only possibly add on average 4-6 weeks more of life but at a very very high cost in medical bills and in degraded quality of life with constant, sometimes daily blood tests, diagnostic imaging, chemo, tests and more tests etc. All the end up doing on the average is make people feel more sick and give a false sense of hope and run up HUGE HUGE bills like a big money making machine. Once a person is terminal there should be some kind of way to get people into a palliative sort of process where the focus is on nurturing and supporting rather than on hopeless and ineffective chemo treatments when the cancers are already massively systemic and metastized to multiple critical organs (brain, liver and lungs ).

The natural human thing to do is fight and cling to any hope as long as insurance will pay. And this is exactly the economic curve that the hospitals play to since they know that everyone wants to live and will spend up to their max caps to try.

Hospitals are making most of their bread and butter on the terminal patients not on the average everyday gall bladder operations and relatively routine surgeries and so on. We need to start educating society to see death as a natural consequence of aging. Cancers rise rapidly in frequency after age 35 to become exponential with age. Its clear that cancer is never going to be cured since its a part of the aging process itself. As we age cells mutate during the cellular reproductive process and keep replicating from a greater and greater corrupted cellular template. There are thousands of mutant precancerous cells in the average person daily. The immune system is constantly sweeping them. But as we age an accelerating number are in circulation and it’s only a matter of time when the immune system is busy fighting other infections and is stressed out that some get through and cluster to form essentially a new organ that thinks its immortal.

Most people over 60 who die from other means go to the grave not knowing they have cancer (especially men with prostate cancer which is slow growing) since it take 10 years for many cancers to manifest themselves.

Humans are not immortal and never will be. We are not here to live forever but to prove and grow our souls. The big lie is that we can have it all, have it our way, and be fulfilled. It’s a rigged game and most people are slaves to this system of belief. The only way to win in the game of life is to become spiritually devout and invest in eternity. Everything else is just marketing.

James
 
We have a very good friend of ours who has an 80 year old father. His father was admitted to the hospital last Friday for pneumonia. He was so horribly weak he could not stand up and we had to call 911 to get him to the hospital.

They released him from the hospital today. :mad: Apparently his insurance will not cover rehab, only under very specific circumstances.

I’m sorry - but you don’t recover from pneumonia, at 80 years old, IN SIX DAYS!!! :mad: I am so blasted angry about this I can’t stand it.

When are we going to realize that there is a serious problem in this country with our health care system and do something about it!!?? And I do NOT mean socialized health care, I think that is a mistake. I don’t know exactly what the solution is, but kicking an 80 year old man out of the hospital six days after a diagnosis of pneumonia, is just insane!!

:mad:
~Liza - can’t use enough of these right now :mad:
Does he live alone? Is he mentally competent?Does he have anyone at home to help him? What could the hospital have done for him, that could not be done at home?
 
The problem really probably starts with pharmacuetical companies and medical supply co. wanting to line their pockets with as much cash as possible:
That is part of the problem. Actually, a lot of the medication being offered by the medical establishment is worthless and in some cases harmful. So natural methods are sometimes better, but not always, of course.
Anyway, the increase in costs are due to more than one factor alone. For example, the tendency of people to sue their doctors, if the doctors make the slightest mistake. This, in turn has increased the cost of malpractice insurance that doctors are more or less required to have and then these costs are passed on to you and to me.
It is not easy to come up with a satisfactory solution. I know that socialised medicine works well in some cases, but not so well in others.
 
We have a very good friend of ours who has an **80 year old father. ** His father was admitted to the hospital last Friday for pneumonia. He was so horribly weak he could not stand up and we had to call 911 to get him to the hospital.

They released him from the hospital today. :mad: Apparently his insurance will not cover rehab, only under very specific circumstances.
kicking an 80 year old man out of the hospital six days after a diagnosis of pneumonia, is just insane!!

:mad:
~Liza - can’t use enough of these right now :mad:
Liza

I read through this thread and frankly it has many problems. 1) an 80 year old man is a Medicare case that in the US Federal Government, not private insurance 2) The assumption people with a medical education know less about these treatments than you and I 3) Most posters in this thread do not understand private insurance at all. 4) The assumptions doctors heal not the human body.

In summary medical personnel, insurance personnel both did not have a problem with the treatment so why would you? Even with no medical training I know ether antibiotics and steroids will ether help him or they will not and it is really that simple
 
That is part of the problem. Actually, a lot of the medication being offered by the medical establishment is worthless and in some cases harmful. So natural methods are sometimes better, but not always, of course.
Anyway, the increase in costs are due to more than one factor alone. For example, the tendency of people to sue their doctors, if the doctors make the slightest mistake. This, in turn has increased the cost of malpractice insurance that doctors are more or less required to have and then these costs are passed on to you and to me.
It is not easy to come up with a satisfactory solution. I know that socialised medicine works well in some cases, but not so well in others.
Yes I agree:thumbsup: I was going to mention malpractice suits and sueing people as a factor as well.
Another factor I forgot to mention is medical fraud.:mad:

I dont think socialized medicine is the solution though. Ive heard too many bad things about it.😦

LORD JESUS PLEASE RETURN!!! That is the ultimate solution:D
 
This is the real problem with insurance. I lost my own wife not long ago to terminal cancer. The doctors admit that they can’t cure a thing and offer to only possibly add on average 4-6 weeks more of life but at a very very high cost in medical bills and in degraded quality of life with constant, sometimes daily blood tests, diagnostic imaging, chemo, tests and more tests etc. All the end up doing on the average is make people feel more sick and give a false sense of hope and run up HUGE HUGE bills like a big money making machine. Once a person is terminal there should be some kind of way to get people into a palliative sort of process where the focus is on nurturing and supporting rather than on hopeless and ineffective chemo treatments when the cancers are already massively systemic and metastized to multiple critical organs (brain, liver and lungs ).

The natural human thing to do is fight and cling to any hope as long as insurance will pay. And this is exactly the economic curve that the hospitals play to since they know that everyone wants to live and will spend up to their max caps to try.

Humans are not immortal and never will be. We are not here to live forever but to prove and grow our souls. The big lie is that we can have it all, have it our way, and be fulfilled. It’s a rigged game and most people are slaves to this system of belief. The only way to win in the game of life is to become spiritually devout and invest in eternity. Everything else is just marketing.

James
My sympathies at the loss of your wife.

Having seen some people die after chemo and some survive after it, I cannot begrudge those whom it helps. But I have also seen it make people, seemingly, much worse than they would have otherwise been. I will always believe my own mother would have lived longer and with less suffering had she not had it; a feeling she shared.

It sometimes seems we have lost our way when it comes to catastrophic illness. I remember when medicine was far more “primitive” than it is now. Our local hospital was operated chiefly by sisters. Most of the care was, as you say, simply palliative. Chemotherapy didn’t even exist. People went there when they were too sick to do anything else, and either recovered or didn’t. It was amazingly inexpensive. I’m not sure that was such a terrible model.

The Bible describes man’s lifespan as “threescore and ten” years. That’s about what it is now, unless some disease or accident cuts it shorter. So people surely had cancer then that manifested itself for what it was. But we don’t read endless ancient sources telling us what a horror it was. I’m sure there was suffering. But I do wonder whether many of them died of something else occasioned by their overall condition. Old sources speak of pneumonia as “the old man’s friend”. Perhaps, having no treatment for hypertension, they died of strokes or cardiac arrest before cancer’s ravages were fully upon them.

I nearly died of polio when I was two; something I remember very well. I try to remind myself that I am simply on “parole” now, subject to immediate recall, and have been these many years. I can’t know how I would be, facing a potentially terminal condition. I do hope I have the grace not to be a burden on younger people who are trying to raise children; even those I don’t know.

I remind myself often of that line from Shakespeare “Full fathom five thy father lies, and of his bones are coral made. Those are pearls that were his eyes. Nothing of him that doth fade. But doth suffer a sea change. Into something rich and strange.” I hope I have the grace to deserve application of that poem to me. But that remains to be seen. I do think I at least understand it

Again, though, and without having any real answers to the healthcare crisis, I agree with you, James. I think we have lost our way in all of this.
 
It seems to me that if insurance was able to be purchased for hospitalization and extraordinary illnesses it would be cheaper. But people expect the insurance to cover them for everything from Dr visits to end of life issues. So the cost keeps going up and up.

This year our portion of the “group” insurance is $89 a week and the company pays about $300 per week (an amount my husband would be able to ask for as a raise in wages), a total of almost $400 a week for the two of us. Or around $20,000 per year. Then add the $500 “out of pocket” and 20% of any hospital visits and the co-pay for each visit and prescription (if they are covered at all) and our yearly cost is someplace around $24,000.

We don’t like it but it would be doable if there weren’t also co-pay and out of pocket minimums on top of this for emergency and hospital stays. So we then can always afford to use the insurance and put things off till later.

When my husband had the flu and pneumonia we opted to keep him home because we could not afford our portion on top of the premiums. Go figure.
 
And I suppose the insurance company won’t pay for home-health care, either. Imagine that. I don’t know the solution. I wish we as a society took better care of the ‘weak’ but how to do it? Is there a supplemental insurance you can look into? Does your state or city offer any senior services that could help? It all seems like a big tangle of red tape, doesn’t it? I wonder if things were like this in pre-hitler time when money ruled all decisions and the sick and weak of society were considered a burden and eligible for extermination. Pray, pray, pray.
 
And I suppose the insurance company won’t pay for home-health care, either. Imagine that. I don’t know the solution. I wish we as a society took better care of the ‘weak’ but how to do it? Is there a supplemental insurance you can look into? Does your state or city offer any senior services that could help? It all seems like a big tangle of red tape, doesn’t it? I wonder if things were like this in pre-hitler time when money ruled all decisions and the sick and weak of society were considered a burden and eligible for extermination. Pray, pray, pray.
Keep in mind that the Medicare program did not begin until 1965. Before that, the elderly pretty much depended on their own resources, or their family, or charity. I don’t recall anyone being sent off to the gas chambers.

Medicare itself did not–at least initially–change the fact of anyone’s dependency. It simply shifted the burden of caregiving from the family and charities to taxpayers in general. The younger generation still takes care of the elderly, only now they do it more through taxation than through family resources.
 
Keep in mind that the Medicare program did not begin until 1965. Before that, the elderly pretty much depended on their own resources, or their family, or charity. I don’t recall anyone being sent off to the gas chambers.

Medicare itself did not–at least initially–change the fact of anyone’s dependency. It simply shifted the burden of caregiving from the family and charities to taxpayers in general. The younger generation still takes care of the elderly, only now they do it more through taxation than through family resources.
I didn’t realize that about Medicare. I was under the impression that it began during the Roosevelt administration…but that’s irrevelevant. And I fully realize no one in the U.S. was sent to the gas chambers for being old and sick but wasn’t it Hitler who advocated eliminating the weak from society? I know he euthanized many disabled individuals…maybe he didn’t go after the old and the sick but his mentality was that of master race…only the strong…so you can see how our current ‘culture of death’ could be in line with that thought, can’t you?

Regardless of the history of Medicare, I feel bad for the original poster’s friend’s father who was kicked out of the hospital after only 6 days. I hope the U.S. someday fixes this problem of outrageous medical costs and policies that don’t benefit the patients. I don’t know what the answer is.
 
Keep in mind that the Medicare program did not begin until 1965. Before that, the elderly pretty much depended on their own resources, or their family, or charity. I don’t recall anyone being sent off to the gas chambers.

Medicare itself did not–at least initially–change the fact of anyone’s dependency. It simply shifted the burden of caregiving from the family and charities to taxpayers in general. The younger generation still takes care of the elderly, only now they do it more through taxation than through family resources.
I grew up in a primitive part of the country a long time ago. If you were sick or injured, there were basically three options. 1) Recover the best you could. More often than not, that’s what people did, and recover is what otherwise reasonably healthy people nearly always did. Of course, you normally had a stock of patent medicines on hand, sold to you by the Watkins peddler. I’m not sure any of them did any good, but paregoric would sure settle your stomach and quell most pains. It actually had opium in it, but you didn’t need a prescription for it. 2) Call the doctor. At that time and place, the doctor came to you, administered the medications and directions he felt you needed and you called him again if you needed to. The doctor might recommend #3, following, but usually didn’t. Doctors were remarkably inexpensive compared to now. 3) Go to a hospital. Usually run either by charitable sisters of one order or another, or by some public entity. They cost about as much as staying at a hotel. The care was essentially palliative, and the sisters were extremely kind and caring. They actually did run the place. Of course, there were no MRIs, CTs, PET scans or any of the expensive stuff or exotic medications there are now. Unless it was a surgery, the doctor pretty much did the same thing he would do if you were at home, but he came more often, and the sisters were pretty observant. If you had trouble paying, you could pretty much work it out somehow. Nearly everybody was uninsured. There was no Medicare or Medicaid. The hospital in my town had a couple of surgeons and four GPs on the staff. Those were the same ones who would go to your house, so they were pretty busy. If you were dying, well, they tried to keep you comfortable and let you die. There wasn’t much they could do about it anyway. They couldn’t spend a million dollars to maybe give you an extra few weeks of life (possibly cure you) because there was nothing to spend it on. Most dying people went home to die, and were cared for by relatives for the fairly short time it took without all the life-extenders they have now. The doctor would visit you every few days until you did, and give you whatever he thought would make you more comfortable. He would leave meds with you. Doubtless some people inadvertently overdosed on narcotic drugs in an effort to kill pain and shortened their lives a bit in the process. But there was no real effort on the part of the doctor to “ration” you so you wouldn’t get addicted before you died.

Ambulances were, well, the local funeral director’s vehicle that sometimes also served as a hearse. No paramedics or anything. Just the director, a family member and you. No helicopters. If you didn’t make it to the hospital, you just didn’t, and nobody thought anybody was to blame for that. But the car was, most often, a Cadillac. I’ll give them that.

The first health insurance of which I was made aware was Blue Cross/Blue Shield, carried by my elderly aunt. It cost her $20/month. She actually had more than one policy, so she always made money if she needed care. I suspected her some of manipulating her health needs to make a profit, but I can’t be sure she did.

Now, of course, extraordinarily threatening conditions are much better treated. The more ordinary care, though, isn’t very good, and they throw you out after the insurance hits its allowable maximum. My wife is an RN and used to be in home health. Not infrequently, hospitals would call her to come and take care of a patient because they, themselves, didn’t have the staff for non-ICU patients who needed more than fairly indifferent care. Hospitals calling home health to come in. Amazing! If you go to a clinic now, you’re lucky to see a doctor and, if you do, the actual cost is staggering if you’re paying it yourself. Something like $200 for 2 or 3 minutes around here for most things. Mostly, though, you’ll see the NP and still pay $200. If you don’t pay, they’ll sue you in a heartbeat.

I don’t expect we’re likely to see hospital sisters again any time soon, for the most part. Even if we did, they would have to have all of the fancy equipment and super specialists and all the other stuff that costs so much, or they would be sued constantly for malpractice for failing to have it. Back then, they didn’t throw away everything you used. They autoclaved it and used it again. But you know, I never heard of anybody getting staph in the hospital then.

But I expect lots of people who survive now would not have survived then. Some of the million dollar folks’ lives are not extended by a day, though. That I know.

(continued)
 
(continued…sorry it’s so long)

I genuinely do believe that back then the infant/childhood mortality rate was likely higher. I suspect the lifespan, on average, was shorter. But by the time you were an adult, you had had every disease there was, likely weren’t treated for it, survived and had a pretty hefty immune system. Old people, I remember, almost never got sick. I could drag any illness to my grandmother’s house, and she never got it. I figured it was because they had had everything and had acquired immunity. When old people died, though, they usually did it in a hurry. No cardiac catheters. No transplants. No cholesterol drugs. They just had their heart attacks or strokes and died. Interestingly, there were quite a number of very active octegenarians and nonegenarians around. But I think they maybe did a lot of physical labor in their lives and had strong hearts, and when they died, the whole system went down at once like the “one-horse shay” and it was sudden.

I wonder, if people could vote on the choices between how it was then and how it is now, how they would vote? I’m an old fogey, so it doesn’t matter too much what I think. But on balance, I’m not sure the new way really has that much to be said over the old. Yes, I want to see, e.g., the kids with Leukemia survive, and I don’t care how much effort and money it takes to get it done. But for most of us? Especially those of us who are up in years? I wonder.
 
Yes, when Blue Cross / Blue Shield first came out, I recall thinking that it was at least as beneficial to the physicians as to the patients: it ensured they would get paid. Health insurance dollars are after all, another means of redistributing income. The money comes out of our premiums, or our taxes (for Medicare) and goes to the docs, drug companies, hospitals, labs, MRI makers, etc. We love that technology, but those who make it and operate it do like to get paid. Health insurance provides a guaranteed income for the health care industry including a cut for the middleman administrator.

Trouble is, instead of treating it like an insurance pool–for unexpected and major expenses, we now tend to treat it as umbrella coverage for everything. It really doesn’t make much sense to put routine office visits and routine lab work into an insurance pool.
 
From a strictly dollar/cents point of few, it’s not cost-effective to provide such extensive medical care to everyone. Heck, from a money point of view, eugenics actually makes sense even though it’s morally wrong and I couldn’t in good conscious support it. A lot of policy-makers are strictly dollars and cents people. Another thread on this forum talked about the Canadian health care system and how doctors have the final say if someone lives or dies (feeding tubes, etc…) It feels that as a society we’re heading toward eugenics. I hope I’m wrong.
 
We have a very good friend of ours who has an 80 year old father. His father was admitted to the hospital last Friday for pneumonia. He was so horribly weak he could not stand up and we had to call 911 to get him to the hospital.

They released him from the hospital today. :mad: Apparently his insurance will not cover rehab, only under very specific circumstances.

I’m sorry - but you don’t recover from pneumonia, at 80 years old, IN SIX DAYS!!! :mad: I am so blasted angry about this I can’t stand it.

When are we going to realize that there is a serious problem in this country with our health care system and do something about it!!?? And I do NOT mean socialized health care, I think that is a mistake. I don’t know exactly what the solution is, but kicking an 80 year old man out of the hospital six days after a diagnosis of pneumonia, is just insane!!

:mad:
~Liza - can’t use enough of these right now :mad:
Good luck, I hope you can get a good resolution. The serious problem is when health care is totally profit-driven. When the shareholders mean more than the patients. The accountants, not the doctors hold the power of the pursestrings.

There have been many proposals which usually get shouted down about some type of Universal Healthcare which covers everyone. This is a viable option and/or more regulation of the health care companies to be there for the patients, not the bottom line.
 
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