Stupid Question

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If Catholicism dosen’t intend to imply that Jesus is the Son in relation to the Father in a Biological sense, then in what sense is he Son in relation to the Father?

If that makes sense
 
In a relational sense. Besides if you read Matthew 1, you do NOT see female god and male god having intercourse in any sense of the word. Most likely, the virigin birth was a special creation in the womb of Mary employing DNA from Mary and possibly from Joseph too. This last part is specualtion on my part.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
In a relational sense. Besides if you read Matthew 1, you do NOT see female god and male god having intercourse in any sense of the word. Most likely, the virigin birth was a special creation in the womb of Mary employing DNA from Mary and possibly from Joseph too. This last part is specualtion on my part.
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What does that mean, “In a relational sense”?
 
This is not a stupid question at all. It does touch on some deep theology. In the end, Jesus was born of the virgin Mary who conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, with no human father involved. This is actually not important to the question. I know that seems strange, but it is true.

Jesus is the Son of God because Son is the Term that the Second Person of the Trinity has in relation to the First person of the Trinity, God the Father. In other words, Jesus is the Son in the sense that that is the way his role within the Trinity is defined by God Himself. It would not matter if Jesus had been born or a Virgin or simply appeared from Heaven. He is the Son because he is the son.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
In a relational sense. Besides if you read Matthew 1, you do NOT see female god and male god having intercourse in any sense of the word. Most likely, the virigin birth was a special creation in the womb of Mary employing DNA from Mary and possibly from Joseph too. This last part is specualtion on my part.
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NO! Joseph had no biological ties to Jesus! That is totally against Catholic Teaching!

Now, as far as Christ being the son of God. Because as Jesus he was the son of God, it was the union of God with Mary that produced Jesus. The trinity is, I think, the most difficult part of Catholicism to understand.

Let me see if I can explain. God the Father is called the creator. It is he who is most responsible for the creation of the world and the angels. But at the same time, since there is only one God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost were all equally responsible for creation. Jesus is called the redeemer because he is the one who suffered, died and rose again. But at the same time, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost suffered, died and rose equally. God the Holy Ghost is the one who inspired the apostles and through whom Our Lady became the Virgin Mother of God. But, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost all had an equal part in this.
Our Lady was the mother of Jesus, but as the mother of God she was equally the mother of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

I think it is just that it is easier for us as human beings to separate the three. Since the first person of the trinity, sort of “fathered” creation, he is called God the Father. Since the second person of the trinity, was the son of a woman and God, he is called God the Son. And since we know so little of the third person of the trinity, since he appears only in a breath of wind (almost as a ghost or spirit) and since he inspires, he is called God the Holy Ghost.
So, you see, the names are not perfect, it is just the best way we as humans have of explaining the separate natures of the three persons of the trinity, but we must never forget that at the same time they are one God with tree divine persons.

I hope that helps.
 
Postmodern said:
If Catholicism dosen’t intend to imply that Jesus is the Son in relation to the Father in a Biological sense, then in what sense is he Son in relation to the Father?

If that makes sense
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I always think of it as a ‘man’ can be a father to his son and an inspiration to others.
The ‘man’ is one being still though has three characteristics.
The ‘man’ of course is God. The son is Christ, and the inspiration is the Holy Spirit.

The realtion between Jesus and God is while a man, Jesus/God took a human form and by doing so bound Himslef to human limitations; i.e. being hungry, cold, felt pain…things that God would not experience otherwise, but not for His benefit, but for ours. In order for humans to understand the unlimited nature of God the Church explains it in the Trinity, and when you read the Gospels and Christs speaks of the Father as a seperate being from Himslef- being unable to do anything without the consent of God- He is speaking of the obvious human limitations He has accepted by becoming human.
 
I really like the way Father Zakaria explains this. This video is about the Trinity and he discusses the concept and why the revelation of the Trinity was slowly revealed to humanity:

youtube.com/watch?v=G79MhKOOlFw

After this “build up”, he explains, in simple terms, how Jesus can be the “Son” of God.

** For an answer to your specific question, part 2 begins to answers it.** Specifically go forward to 5:00 minutes into the video to 6:40 (some of it is specifically targeted at a Muslim audience):

youtube.com/watch?v=n2TWfPvsNkA&feature=related

** Your specific question is then addressed in much more depth in part 3 of the video from 2:35 minutes to 4:50**:

youtube.com/watch?v=kxOK6CibbgQ
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
In a relational sense. Besides if you read Matthew 1, you do NOT see female god and male god having intercourse in any sense of the word. Most likely, the virigin birth was a special creation in the womb of Mary employing DNA from Mary and possibly from Joseph too. This last part is specualtion on my part.
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No. There is ABSOLUTELY none of Joseph’s DNA in Jesus. It is there specifically in the Bible. If you go through the genealogies of Jesus, you’ll see that both Mary and Joseph come from the Davidic line, through different branches. However, Joseph comes from a branch where G_D specifically says none of the children from this branch will sit on the throne. So Joseph had nothing biologically to do with Jesus’ Incarnation.

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Jesus is a true Son and the Father a true father in that the Father eternally ‘generates’ the Son. The Father generates His ‘kind’ eternally and that generating is the model of all generating especially human.

Catholic theology on this ‘generatedness’ that distinguishes the Father and the Son goes something like this:

The Father eternally generates ‘Cognizance’ of Himself. This is implied by ‘only the Father knows the Son and only the Son knows the Father’. The Father eternally generates ‘knowing’ Himself and that knowing of self is His Son and Word.

Something like that.
 
Benadam said:
Jesus is a true Son and the Father a true father in that the Father eternally ‘generates’ the Son. The Father generates His ‘kind’ eternally and that generating is the model of all generating especially human.
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God the Father, the creator, eternally “generates” without beginning or end. He is the source of all.

God the Son, the savior, is eternally “begotten” which is not the same as being born. Born implies a moment of beginning before which someone did not exist. Eternally begotten has no beginning or end. Eternally begotten is more like being eternally “caused” or “produced”. He is also the conduit through whom the Father made all things.

God the Spirit, the paraclete or helper (not parakeet), eternally “proceeds”. He also has no beginning or end. The Spirit is the unifying force between the Father and the Son, and the perfect emination of the Love that the Father and the Son have for all creation.

It sounds confusing, I know. Sleep on it.
 
The way I view the trinity is that that it is just ONE God but the different ‘persons’ of the trinity represent differant ‘faces’ or ‘aspects’ of one and the same God.

Does that help at all? It’s the easiest way I can think to try and explain it.
 
Benadam said:
Jesus is a true Son and the Father a true father in that the Father eternally ‘generates’ the Son. The Father generates His ‘kind’ eternally and that generating is the model of all generating especially human.

Catholic theology on this ‘generatedness’ that distinguishes the Father and the Son goes something like this:

The Father eternally generates ‘Cognizance’ of Himself. This is implied by ‘only the Father knows the Son and only the Son knows the Father’. The Father eternally generates ‘knowing’ Himself and that knowing of self is His Son and Word.

Something like that.
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Correct, the Creed says it quite well…Jesus is "eternally begotten by the Father…begotten not made…the Holy Spirt proceeds from the Father and the Son.
 
New_Mom_Katie said:
The way I view the trinity is that that it is just ONE God but the different ‘persons’ of the trinity represent differant ‘faces’ or ‘aspects’ of one and the same God.

Does that help at all? It’s the easiest way I can think to try and explain it.
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Katie, how you have expressed this conveys the heresy of Modalism in which there are no distinct Persons in God but only “aspects” that He may or may not have revealed. IOW, when one speaks of “aspects” one can easily ask “well, what are the fourth, fifth and sixth aspects, etc.?” 😉 God has revealed, however, that He is Three Divine Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, Who are in eternal relationship with one Another and in and through Christ Jesus, the Son Incarnate, have invited us to participate in that relationship by grace.

Congratulations on being a new mom, btw. 🙂
 
Thank you for correcting me. I meant to try and simplify it, but in doing so I inadvertantly made my answer in to something bad!! I know that God is three distinct persons, I just went about explaining it the wrong way. Thank you for clearing that up!

And thanks!
 
New_Mom_Katie said:
Thank you for correcting me. I meant to try and simplify it, but in doing so I inadvertantly made my answer in to something bad!! I know that God is three distinct persons, I just went about explaining it the wrong way. Thank you for clearing that up!

And thanks!
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:hug3: I understand,Katie; what’s in our minds and hearts isn’t always so easy to translate into the right words. 🙂
 
This is something I think works theologically for Katie.

The Trinity is like the sun.

The sun is the Father

The rays of light that come down to earth are like the Son

The warmth on your face is like the holy Spirit.
 
Yerusalyim said:
Correct, the Creed says it quite well…Jesus is "eternally begotten by the Father…begotten not made…the Holy Spirt proceeds from the Father and the Son.
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Amen credo. Light from Light, True God from True God.
 
Benadam said:
This is something I think works theologically for Katie.

The Trinity is like the sun.

The sun is the Father

The rays of light that come down to earth are like the Son

The warmth on your face is like the holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
That’s a really cute analogy. :yup:
 
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