Stupid Question

[planten]

I have read with some interest about Jesus being the son of God. I believe it is only metaphorical and not real. There are many other things in the bible also which are symbolic only. Jesus used to talk in parables.

It is admitted that Trinity is not easy to explain. It is a very difficult subject. So why make religion so difficult for mankind? Why not keep it simple. I am a Muslim. I do not believe that God has any son or wife or daughter. I feel that the Jews also do not believe that God had a son in the real sense. So why the christians are so serious about this matter? The matter which is creating so much disturbance between the three religions.

We have different views about the brothers and sisters of Jesus. Some people say that Mary did not give birth to any other child. But there are others who say that she gave birth to other children too. There seem to be much wishful thinking in all these beliefs.

Then no one knows if Jesus was a man, a son of a man, a god, a son of a God, a prophet of God. How could he be all these things at once. I believe that Jesus being the son of God is only by the way of love, nothing else. He is not any real son at all.

Jesus is the son because the God loved him too much. There is written in the bible as other people were sons of God, i.e. Israel (Jacob) is called the first born of God. What about that please? I may write more later but it is all without prejudice. I have all the love for Jesus and his mother and his friends here and there.

 

[Angelos]

I have read with some interest about Jesus being the son of God. I believe it is only metaphorical and not real. There are many other things in the bible also which are symbolic only. Jesus used to talk in parables.

Metaphorical usage does not necessarily pertain to unreality. Jesus IS really the Son of God, but not in the literal sense that denotes sexual affair and procreation. Jesus taught His Gospel through parables, but His identification of Himself was by no means a parable.

It is admitted that Trinity is not easy to explain. It is a very difficult subject. So why make religion so difficult for mankind? Why not keep it simple. I am a Muslim. I do not believe that God has any son or wife or daughter. I feel that the Jews also do not believe that God had a son in the real sense. So why the christians are so serious about this matter? The matter which is creating so much disturbance between the three religions.

So you think we must deny or ignore every certain tenet of our faith if it is difficult to explain? This makes no sense to me. There are several things we cannot explain or fully understand through our limited human knowledge and mental capacity, but this does not mean that those beliefs are false. It is difficult to explain the mystery of the Holy Trinity, but not difficult or impossible to believe it. After all, God is a mystery.

We can never change our beliefs to make Jews or Muslims happy. We believe this way because Jesus wants us to believe so and gain eternal life.

We have different views about the brothers and sisters of Jesus. Some people say that Mary did not give birth to any other child. But there are others who say that she gave birth to other children too. There seem to be much wishful thinking in all these beliefs.

On whose behalf are you speaking? Who does that pronoun (WE) refer to? Traditional Churches believe in the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos (Mary) whilst Reformed Churches have some doubts about it due to their principle of Sola Scriptura.

Muslims have to profess Mary’s perpetual virginity if they follow their scripture, for the Koran rejects that Mary was married to a man and that she had any kids after Jesus. According to the Koran, Jesus was Mary’s one and only child.

Then no one knows if Jesus was a man, a son of a man, a god, a son of a God, a prophet of God. How could he be all these things at once. I believe that Jesus being the son of God is only by the way of love, nothing else. He is not any real son at all.

What do you mean no one knows? You should consult us Christians if you want to find answers to all these questions. We know that Jesus is the Son of God, Messiah, Savior, the Prophet promised in the Deuteronomy, the Good Shepherd, the Master, the Lord, the King of Kings, the Prince of Life… It is absolutely possible for Jesus to be all of these at once. I do not think anybody or anything could prevent Jesus from being what or who He is. Don’t you agree?

Jesus is the son because the God loved him too much. There is written in the bible as other people were sons of God, i.e. Israel (Jacob) is called the first born of God. What about that please? I may write more later but it is all without prejudice. I have all the love for Jesus and his mother and his friends here and there.

Jesus identifies Himself as the ONLY Son of God, through faith in whose name humans become children of God. You should read the parable called “The tenants of the Vineyard” (Mark 12: 1-11) to see how Jesus deliberately distinguishes Himself from all the other messengers as “the Son”.

Besides, the New Testament always uses the word SON for Jesus to underline His divine personality as the Logos (Word):

Hebrews 1:1-3
God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, In these days, hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world. Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.

 

[peary]

If Catholicism dosen’t intend to imply that Jesus is the Son in relation to the Father in a Biological sense, then in what sense is he Son in relation to the Father?

If that makes sense

**God is ONE but His nature is Trinitarian - meaning that there are three ‘persons’ in one God: Father, Son, & Holy Spirit - Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer (or Sanctifier). God works through His creation and within the context of humanity in these ways. God is eternal. Only God as Son incarnated into humankind to redeem it. **

 

[planten]

**God is ONE but His nature is Trinitarian - meaning that there are three ‘persons’ in one God: Father, Son, & Holy Spirit - Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer (or Sanctifier). God works through His creation and within the context of humanity in these ways. God is eternal. Only God as Son incarnated into humankind to redeem it. **

You mean there is a god (God) in whom there is a father and a son and a Holy spirit. It is very illogical. On many counts. It says three in One and One in three which is not possible.

Also you are believing as if God the Father is some material body who needs a spirit (Holy Spirit) just like men. That is absolutely false. Also the creation of Jesus (begetting) in some special sense and then going on the “The only begotten son” was too much work of the early christians. They were not satisfied with Jesus being the begotten son (which could not be explained). And the churchmen advanced further and invented the idea of the only begotten son.

That was to make it some special kind of begetting. Because there were other sons of God (Jacob) available by way of love. So the church advised the idea of a begotten son. It means it was not by way of love that Jesus is considered a son of God. Very well. Try to teach all these things. They are irrational. Un-natural. Jesus having many status at the same time. How could he be a god and a man at the same time.

Similarly, the God being many things at the same time, that is the Father and He is the son also and He is the holy spirit too. Many things at the same time. Did the Jews know such a God? I hope not. Then whatever is being taught has nothing to do with the Taurah and Quran.

 

[inJESUS]

You mean there is a god (God) in whom there is a father and a son and a Holy spirit. It is very illogical. On many counts. It says three in One and One in three which is not possible.

do you believe that Allah and his Word are 2 or 1?

we believe the Father, His Word and His Spirit are One. Do you believe Allah is Wisdomless and Spiritless?

 

[peary]

You mean there is a god (God) in whom there is a father and a son and a Holy spirit. It is very illogical. On many counts. It says three in One and One in three which is not possible.

It is not illogical. You are one individual. You act differently in your role as a father (or mother) to your children; you act a different role as husband or wife; you act a different role to your friends and also to your boss down at work. That’s an inefficient way to understand but it brings the Trinitarian belief into perspective. Or, as another way of understanding, H20 is water. When heated, it turns to steam; when cold is applied, it turns to ice. It’s still one substance but has different appearances and functions differently. The Trinity can never be understood logically because it is beyond human comprehension. But Scripture has revealed it, and so it stands as a Truth revealed.

Also you are believing as if God the Father is some material body who needs a spirit (Holy Spirit) just like men. That is absolutely false. Also the creation of Jesus (begetting) in some special sense and then going on the “The only begotten son” was too much work of the early christians. They were not satisfied with Jesus being the begotten son (which could not be explained). And the churchmen advanced further and invented the idea of the only begotten son.

The Bible reveals that Jesus is the Son of God, not one of a number of ‘sons’ and certainly not merely human. Chapter 1 of John’s gospel reveals this Truth to us, and he equated Jesus as the Word and is also God. Your ‘invention’ by churchmen doesn’t hold any relevancy.

Similarly, the God being many things at the same time, that is the Father and He is the son also and He is the holy spirit too. Many things at the same time. Did the Jews know such a God? I hope not. Then whatever is being taught has nothing to do with the Taurah and Quran.

It was revealed in Scripture.

 

[Angelos]

You mean there is a god (God) in whom there is a father and a son and a Holy spirit. It is very illogical. On many counts. It says three in One and One in three which is not possible.

Nope, we do not mean and believe this way! You are rebutting your personal misinterpretation and false conceptualization of the Trinity in the same way as your scripture.

Also you are believing as if God the Father is some material body who needs a spirit (Holy Spirit) just like men. That is absolutely false. Also the creation of Jesus (begetting) in some special sense and then going on the “The only begotten son” was too much work of the early christians. They were not satisfied with Jesus being the begotten son (which could not be explained). And the churchmen advanced further and invented the idea of the only begotten son.

No materialism in the Christian concept of God! Jesus is the only begotten of the Father since He is the LOGOS, the ONE and ONLY uncreated Word of God! I guess you adopted the talent of combining false allegations with personal fantasies from the authors of your Scripture.

That was to make it some special kind of begetting. Because there were other sons of God (Jacob) available by way of love. So the church advised the idea of a begotten son. It means it was not by way of love that Jesus is considered a son of God. Very well. Try to teach all these things. They are irrational. Un-natural. Jesus having many status at the same time. How could he be a god and a man at the same time.

How could your Allah be a god and a book at the same time? Why does your Koran not know that many prophets and biblical figures were called sons of God prior to Christianity? Why does your Allah think that the title “Son of God” used by Christians for Jesus denote divinity? Why doesn’t your Allah acknowledge that Jesus IS the Son of God in the same sense as the other prophets???

Similarly, the God being many things at the same time, that is the Father and He is the son also and He is the holy spirit too. Many things at the same time. Did the Jews know such a God? I hope not. Then whatever is being taught has nothing to do with the Taurah and Quran.

The Jews did NOT know a god that would dictate his word to an illiterate man in Mecca! The Jews did not know a god that would deny all his former revelations! The Jews did not know a god that would change his mind and abrogate his message! The Jews did not know a god that would delight in deceiving them through an illusion! Should I go on??