Stylites?

[Diak]

Your lack of respect for an entire category of saints and forefathers in the Church is remarkable. That you do not connect with the way they were called to serve God is understandable, but to minimize their faith and then to disregard it as self-serving, gnostic, and heretical is beyond the pale, especially considering that they are saints and we are not.

Amen. Such disdain for holy saints in the calendar of the universal Church (such as St. Simeon, January 5 on the Roman Calendar), is beyond belief. We will be judged as we judge, and judging those whom the Church has accepted as saints (as E&W has done on numerous occasions, not only this thread) is a very serious thing.
FDRLB

 

[East_and_West]

Everyone calm down. I just don’t think the spirituality of the Stylites is a good thing. Many in the east don’t think the penitential spirituality of the west is a good thing. We can disagree on particular spiritualities without attacking one another.

 

[josephdaniel29]

Everyone calm down. I just don’t think the spirituality of the Stylites is a good thing. Many in the east don’t think the penitential spirituality of the west is a good thing. We can disagree on particular spiritualities without attacking one another.

Well you can disagree with a particular spirituality without calling it gnostic or vainglorious. I have to say (and this is going to get me in trouble) that this attitude toward asceticism is typical in the post Vatican II Latin Church. Now you are only required to “give up” something during Lent instead of adhering to the ancient fasting practices of the Church, practices that our Holy Fathers passed on to us because they learned from experience that these practices were useful and beneficial for our spiritual wellbeing.

Extreme forms of asceticism aren’t for most people but to dismiss them outright is folly…

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[East_and_West]

Well you can disagree with a particular spirituality without calling it gnostic or vainglorious. I have to say (and this is going to get me in trouble) that this attitude toward asceticism is typical in the post Vatican II Latin Church. Now you are only required to “give up” something during Lent instead of adhering to the ancient fasting practices of the Church, practices that our Holy Fathers passed on to us because they learned from experience that these practices were useful and beneficial for our spiritual wellbeing.

Extreme forms of asceticism aren’t for most people but to dismiss them outright is folly…

Yours in Christ
Joe

I have no problem with fasting and the like. It just seems silly to live on top of a post. In what way does that glorify God or advance his kingdom?

 

[jimmy]

Mother Theresa didn’t sit on top of a post like these people so they could stare at some ridculous level of self mortification and say, “oh look what she can do.”

No matter what a person’s spirituality is it can be a form of self gratification. Although she didn’t stand on a pilar, she could have found pride in her work, in people saying, “oh look what a wonderful woman mother Teresa was.” Pride and vanity can be found in any walk of life.

St. Symeon spent his life in prayer and asceticism just like any contemplative monk like the Carthusians, the Carmelites, the Cistercians, and the monastics of the eastern churches.

 

[jimmy]

I have no problem with fasting and the like. It just seems silly to live on top of a post. In what way does that glorify God or advance his kingdom?

It glorifies God in the same way that St. John of the Cross glorified God as a hermit. Monks are not called to active propagation of the faith in the way that you or I are. They are called to pray ceaselessly(atleast in the east). That is what St. Symeon did. He prayed ceaselessly. And by praying ceaselessly they both give glory to God and propagate His kingdom.

 

[East_and_West]

It glorifies God in the same way that St. John of the Cross glorified God as a hermit. Monks are not called to active propagation of the faith in the way that you or I are. They are called to pray ceaselessly(atleast in the east). That is what St. Symeon did. He prayed ceaselessly. And by praying ceaselessly they both give glory to God and propagate His kingdom.

And sittting on top of a post?

 

[Volodymyr_988]

Mother Theresa didn’t sit on top of a post like these people so they could stare at some ridculous level of self mortification and say, “oh look what she can do.”

Hitchens accused Blessed Teresa of doing it all for the glory. So, the comparison is there.

St. Simeon was called to be a witness. I’m a little perplexed with the maggot thing, but I am a wicked sinner so I don’t have much room to talk (type.)

It wasn’t for his glory to be up there preaching and teaching, but for God’s.

 

[East_and_West]

I’m a little perplexed with the maggot thing,

So am I.

 

[jimmy]

And sittting on top of a post?

Different people are guided down different paths. Why would St. Antony need to go into the desert? St. Symeon’s form of asceticism might seem very extreme to me or you but it is what he was called to do. What St. Antony accomplished in the desert, St. Symeon accomplshed on a pilar. And considering this, it is a form of rejection of the world(as all monasticism is) but it is not gnosticism. Through it he is not saying the world is evil. His rejection of worldly pleasure is that he might do Gods will.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

And sittting on top of a post?

Or sitting in a cave.

Or sitting in a cell.

Or kneeling in a chapel.

Or prostrate in a Cathedral.

On a train, in the rain, on a boat, with a goat, in a house, with a mouse, in a box, with a fox, here, there, and everywhere.

 

[East_and_West]

Or sitting in a cave.

Or sitting in a cell.

Or kneeling in a chapel.

Or prostrate in a Cathedral.

On a train, in the rain, on a boat, with a goat, in a house, with a mouse, in a box, with a fox, here, there, and everywhere.

In a cell, chapel, cathedral, etc. going to your room where your Father sees you in secret as Christ commanded. Sitting on top of a post and growing maggots: Look at me! See how holy I am!

 

[jimmy]

Sitting on top of a post and growing maggots: Look at me! See how holy I am!

You must remember that this can be said of every single saint within the history of Christianity, no matter what their spirituality is. It could be said of St. Paul, St. Ignatius, St. Augustine, and etc. Vainglory can attack anyone in any place. You don’t think St. Antony could have had the same thoughts going out into the desert and living the life of a hermit? People came to him for advice. It was certainly present there. Or St. Francis? Many of his actions could be interpreted as vainglory. They all could have experienced vainglory. St. Symeon’s situation is no different than any of them. The thing is though that people have found inspiration in St. Symeon as they do in St. Francis or in Mother Theresa. They have looked to St. Symeon as a spiritual father as they do with others.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

In a cell, chapel, cathedral, etc. going to your room where your Father sees you in secret as Christ commanded. Sitting on top of a post and growing maggots: Look at me! See how holy I am!

The simple fact is that he’s a Saint, and you as of yet, are not.

Maybe you should study his life and learn how to be as holy as he is.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

In a cell, chapel, cathedral, etc. going to your room where your Father sees you in secret as Christ commanded. Sitting on top of a post and growing maggots: Look at me! See how holy I am!

Kneeling in a chapel and prostrate in a Cathedral are public acts.:dts:

 

[jimmy]

In a cell, chapel, cathedral, etc. going to your room where your Father sees you in secret as Christ commanded. Sitting on top of a post and growing maggots: Look at me! See how holy I am!

As I have been trying to say, we can point to any saint and say he was vainglorious(as many non-Catholic or nominal Catholics have actually attempted to do with individual saints). But as has been mentioned, he is a saint and he is in the calendar. Some non-Catholic might wish to look at him and say he believed in a works based salvation(I think Philip Schaff tried to say this) but the Catholics and Orthodox and Orientals throughout history have looked to him as a sign of faith. They have seen him and been inspired by his detachment.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

The Carthusians and the Carmelites are useless then.

Hey!!! Don’t knock my guys.

I, like some here, don’t get the whole Stylite spirituality. I am more geared toward Carthusian and Carmelite Spirituality (really I am). But, the Church has acknowledged the goodness and holiness of both the particular form of ascetism and the Saints themselves. Both Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II have praised the entire Syriac ascetic tradition - including the Stylites (mentioned by name by Pope John Paul - not certain if explicitly mentioned by Pope Benedict). Who am I, wicked sinner that I am, to question the judgment of the Church.

 

[Woodstock]

I have no problem with fasting and the like. It just seems silly to live on top of a post. In what way does that glorify God or advance his kingdom?

I marvel in the strength and commitment it must have taken. Strength from God sustaining them, and commitment to God driving them. The stylites are an amazing testimony to faith and perseverance, focus on God, and hope in the afterlife.

 

[mgy100]

We could really baffle the fray and start a thread on eunuchs.

Wheter we understand or can’t comprehend the actions of men in past times we must remember the Church made them Holy men/Saints for a reason! Therefore we must cast aside our societal and cultural differences and respect these men because the church has declared them saints.